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I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


It wasnt just you, I can esaily go back and find multiple usages of the word leech...scum...and other generalizing derrogatory remarks for those of us who use medicaid...

I didnt appreciate it, and Im sure you got the hint...but, when it comes to that point you made, you are very correct, and sticking to that point would serve you and your ideas well...

Lowering yourself by spewing hate will get you no where except stuck in the mud...




posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Pathos
 


I understand what you mean but it's a fine line from demanding people be constructive, to demanding certain economic output (production) in order to receive any form of care. Which would be a very Fascist idea..

I would never tolerate any form of Federal plan to begin with, allow the states to.. if you don't like what develops, move.

reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


I never called anyone a name except for calling the OP a degenerate and a vagabond.

as per the tenth amendment states...

Which is what I have been saying all along.. in many threads.. and I get the feeling no one knows what the 10th amendment says..

Its a conundrum. We are physically stuck in between two immovable forces.

(!) We need people to take responsibility for their own actions; thus, they need to be aware of the consequences of having and not having health insurance. If they do not want to take health insurance, that will be their own undoing.

(2) We need to somehow prevent the loss of freedom to someone. People should have a right to an affordable health insurance. Health care providers should have a right to seek profit. Doctors should have a right to get paid according to experience. People should also have the right to opt out of any type of insurance without consequence through fines or taxes.

(3) Lobbyists should be prevented from partaking in the establishment of law or public services.

Its a major conundrum. How do we protect the freedoms of one group, and try to also maintain the freedoms of other groups. Ethics is at the heart of the matter.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by 11b1p
 


you, my friend, are so full of it.... I am currently taking a low paying job because the filthy rich leaders of CSX decided to cut nearly all of us. My wife had a severe intestinal disorder and my 9 month old child needs a doctor. Having medicaid may have saved my wifes life. We hardly have any family left between each other, theres no one else to reach out to. I'm more than happy to spend my tax money on medicaid, I know the majority of is is going towards people in my situation. What a wonderful system. A lot of people out here are struggling with things not in their control. So you lose your job, have dependents and no outside family connections? What are you going to do?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Wow no wonder the U.S.A. will fall, they do not care about each other. They care only about how it affects themselves. Basically what is being said is this....Do not get sick/injured or whatever if you cannot afford it because we do not want to help fellow americans. Who cares what you went through because it is all your fault and we should not have to foot the bill
. Oh well I for one cannot wait for the few million people that choose to revolt....when it is all said and done...america will be a better place without them, because they will get annihilated. They hope and pray thier military will side with them...but it reality this isn't going to happen. Gun owners believe thier stock piling of weapons will defend them...but against highly trained military personnel...I don't think so. Oh well all we have are whiner and crybabies who don't do anything but complain on thier computers instead of actually doing anything. Oh yeah these people you are so unwilling to help because it costs you...could have been comrades in the fight instead you will turn them into enemies.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by king9072
Im Canadian. Had health care my entire life. Been to the hospital tens of times in my life either myself, a family member or a friend.

Best part, is when you leave, and it costs you nothing. Ever.


This healthcare you speak of sounds evil! How did you make it past the death panel and death squads?!



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Lets not forget that it's this Govt's insane policies that are doing their best to stifle any economic growth or recovery.

This Govt wants people in misery. It wants people to be anxious.

The Government under the Democrats are doing all they can to damage the economy.


here's one article about it... but you can find this in countless places

Wade Rathke is an Obama crony. He was/is involved with SDS ACORN SEIU HCAN Apollo Tides



Wrathful Wade Rathke
By Matthew Vadum on 7.16.09 @ 6:07AM

Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) founder Wade Rathke wants to use the Internet to overthrow the capitalist system.

He said so in his new book, Citizen Wealth: Winning the Campaign to Save Working Families, in which he serves up some community organizing war stories, and offers his thoughts on the future of organizing.

Rathke, a pioneer of the so-called welfare rights movement that aims to get Americans on welfare, devotes an entire chapter of his book to what he calls "The 'Maximum Eligible Participation' Solution." It is a strategy for orchestrated crisis that savvy leftist groups across America are likely to embrace.

"[I]t is hard to believe that we cannot assemble the troops to mount a campaign for maximum eligible participation that harvests the opportunities and dollars already available if we could achieve full utilization of existing programs," he writes.

Rathke acknowledges his support for the Cloward-Piven Strategy, an approach to radical social and political change articulated by Marxist university professors Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven in a 1966 Nation article, "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty." The two academics called for "a massive drive to recruit the poor onto the welfare rolls" in an effort to overwhelm the system. [Italics in original.]

The strategy helped to bankrupt New York City in 1975. Years later, the Big Apple's mayor, Rudy Giuliani, denounced the academic activists by name.

In the Nation article, Cloward and Piven made it clear that they were irritated that plenty of Americans legally eligible to receive forcibly redistributed wealth hadn't bothered to ask for handouts. "The discrepancy is not an accident stemming from bureaucratic inefficiency; rather, it is an integral feature of the welfare system which, if challenged, would precipitate a profound financial and political crisis."

In his book Rathke hails "Cloward and Piven's exciting call to arms." He notes that the activist group they created and that he organized for in the late 1960s, the now-defunct National Welfare Rights Organization, caused "a flood tide from its work that allowed many boats to rise, including the level of participation in government assistance programs."

spectator.org...



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by TheWake
 




and my 9 month old child needs a doctor.


In all 50 states it's illegal to refuse treatment of a child.



I'm more than happy to spend my tax money on medicaid, I know the majority of is is going towards people in my situation.


I'm glad you using the system as it's meant to be used.. unfortunately you're not the majority of medicaid users.. the OP is.




Best part, is when you leave, and it costs you nothing. Ever.


Except taxes. If your a contributing member of society anyways..



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by TheWake
 


Hello. I see your name everytime I go to my homepage, because you are there as having named me as a foe. It's nice to finally meet you. I'm sorry for all your difficulties.

This is a true story:

I know a man who worked as a car salesman for 30 years. He worked six days a week, with long hours. He had good health insurance, which he never once had to use. He was pretty healthy. After a while he got sick and was diagnosed with cancer.

He worked, until he became too weak. He had to quit his job.
When he quit his job, he lost his health insurance.

The social workers at the cancer clinic applied for Medicaid for him. He was not approved because you have to wait two years to get it after you apply.

He knew he would not live two years with the type cancer he had.
He knew he would die.
I knew he would die.
The doctors knew he would die.
Medicaid knew he would die.

And he did die, six months later. A man who had worked his entire life, died penniless, with not a dollar's worth of insurance.

If anything, I am in favor of abolishing the two month waiting period on Medicaid when there is a catastrophic illness involved.

Clearly: Not everybody can grow their own veggies, ride a bike to work,
have cows slaughtered, and do all the fabulous things some do, and be...what else can I say? A PERFECT example of self-sufficiency.

Mr. TheWake, I am glad your situation is at least stable, and I hope it improves. I'm glad to know who you are at last.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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I really don't get it...Maybe I am ignorant? I am 25 years old and have been working since i was 14. I live in the Boston, MA area and costs are high. I have a college degree and now I make about $55,000. I am certainly not rich as a lot of people in this salary range can appreciate. I have a health plan I pay about $40+ a week for. It covers what I need.

Now....Am I ignorant to say why can't others just work hard as I did to get myself out of the gutter (like I did), and get a job with insurance????

EDIT: I actually registered because of this thread. I have been reading many topics on this board for a couple years but this just kills me. To the OP, you did mess up, and now either you work a job that requires no skills or something right? Why punish those of us that worked hard through a trade or college and we are just getting by? Ot those that didn't have either but busted their butt the good old American way? Why should we pay more?

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Tom192]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Lies.

Or ignorance.

Or both?

If you have employer sponsored healthcare, and you get cancer, then loose your job, through COBRA the corporations are legally obligated to "grandfather you in" .. You can apply for new insurance without being "screened" for preexisting conditions.. the corporations MUST pay for the health costs of the condition you had at the time of loosing your job.

Next time you make up a BS story at least get the facts right.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


So, what you're saying is we don't need healthcare reform. Medicaid is already available, and you're on it at the age of 23 as your primary healthcare insurance because you cannot afford private insurance and to be taken off your parent's insurance.

OK.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Tom192
 


Damn straight Tom... people refuse to recognize the Middle class, those making 40-100k a year will pay the biggest proportion of the taxes to fund these stupid programs.. only adding to the speedy decline of those individuals that prop up this country, and that are only scraping by in these hard economic times....

Obama could have had the decency to wait for an economic rebound THEN tax the hell out of us... it's like kicking a man while he's down and running off with his wallet..


PS welcome to ATS.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by iamjesusphish
Alright I am very fed up with rich people that have great health care being enraged with the notion that they will not pay for another persons health care because it is socialist... I am 23 years old and have been on Medicaid since I was 18 and taking off my parents insurance. This is not because I don't work or pay taxes but simply because I can not afford private insurance.

Now first off I am a recovering addict and without medicaid I would have died when I overdosed in 2004. Without Medicaid I would have been pushed off to a hospital that could not treat my Pulmonary Edema. My life was saved because of government run health care.

I for one believe that every American citizens deserves to be insured. To any of you that think our country will be ruined because of this needs to be human for one second and think about their fellows humans. We are not enemies. We are the same as you except we are not as well off. I work just like you do I pay taxes just like you and I would want the same health insurance for you....

[edit on 15-8-2009 by iamjesusphish]



(1) If you're on Medicaid, why don't you support Medicaid for the other people who cannot afford it instead of a National Health Care System? Why make it available for everyone instead of just those who cannot afford it?

(2) If you were not paying such high taxes would you then be able to afford private health insurance? I imagine the answer is yes, so in that case would you be willing to support a tax credit for everyone who decides to sign-up for private health insurance instead?

(3) Answer honestly: are you working hard right now to educate yourself so that you can get a higher income and be able to afford private insurance? Or do you feel that you are entitled to free health insurance for the rest of your life? Do you not agree that free health insurance should be circumstantial and treated only as a stepping stone to a private option?

(4) And what is your opinion on George Bush's proposal of government health care insurance for all that only covers catastrophic injuries and emergencies (that way no one would die, but not all would have the luxury of be able to visit the doctor anytime they please)? And he also suggested making it impossible for liabilities to be high (ie: someone suing a doctor for $1 million for a botched surgery that cost $10 thousand; etc)?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Tom192
I really don't get it...Maybe I am ignorant? I am 25 years old and have been working since i was 14. I live in the Boston, MA area and costs are high. I have a college degree and now I make about $55,000. I am certainly not rich as a lot of people in this salary range can appreciate. I have a health plan I pay about $40+ a week for. It covers what I need.

Now....Am I ignorant to say why can't others just work hard as I did to get myself out of the gutter (like I did), and get a job with insurance????

EDIT: I actually registered because of this thread. I have been reading many topics on this board for a couple years but this just kills me. To the OP, you did mess up, and now either you work a job that requires no skills or something right? Why punish those of us that worked hard through a trade or college and we are just getting by? Ot those that didn't have either but busted their butt the good old American way? Why should we pay more?

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Tom192]


You will not pay more, that is unless you make over 250k which you stated you do not. So what's the problem?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Tom192
 


Damn straight Tom... people refuse to recognize the Middle class, those making 40-100k a year will pay the biggest proportion of the taxes to fund these stupid programs.. only adding to the speedy decline of those individuals that prop up this country, and that are only scraping by in these hard economic times....

Obama could have had the decency to wait for an economic rebound THEN tax the hell out of us... it's like kicking a man while he's down and running off with his wallet..


PS welcome to ATS.


wrong wrong wrong. Your argument is about those making over 250k which is not 'the middle class'.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Medicare and Medicad were put in place because everyone gets down on their luck sometimes, and needs help. But the leeches that stay on it for years are the ones we need to address.

OP, Do you have pay TV? A Car? Internet access?

Yeah, I thought so, you made a CHOICE to avoid paying health care, you can afford it, but CHOOSE not to. And why not, If I will pay it for you.

I've got no problem helping someone else up when their down. But you need to walk on your own.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Many of the posts show just how narcissistic and "Me me me me" oriented America has become. To have people up in arms and adamant in the contention that the government must not help those less fortunate then themselves sickens me to the core. These are the people that would happily see the scenes from the past re-enacted. The poor and destitute dying in gutters being ok so long as they don't have to see it in "their" part of town. Because they feel they are the only ones deserving of care as they themselves feel only they are entitled to anything good. People make mistakes lives get ruined without it being ANYONE'S fault. Yet people like some of the people on this thread thing that because someone did not have the breaks they did they are an lesser animal and dying in the gutter is fine for them. How self absorbed......... I just hope none of these people are christian as I imagine their God will have a few less than kind words for them at the end of their road.
My how far we have fallen into aristocracy.

"Let them eat cake."

"Half the people on this ship are going to die."
"Not the better half."

And now,
"Why should they use my taxes to help those "scumbags/leeches/whatever."

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish
 


Oh no, far from ignorant. I have seen many a people who are addicted to pharma drugs. It is still a CHOICE you made.

Just because a pain killer is prescribed does NOT MEAN you HAVE to take it. There are ways to learn to deal with pain that can reduce the amount of drugs you need to manage it, but again, that too is a CHOICE.

You choose to pollute your body, with whatever substance, legally prescribed or not, rather than choosing to find a healthier alternative.

And you realize that you simply further my point. Once again you reinforce how your bad choices are subsidized by my tax dollars, as I (and other taxed americans) paid not only for the doctor visits, but for your prescriptions too. Our money fed your addiction.

having someone come right out and state that you are an example of the nation of leeches IS SUPPOSED TO BOTHER YOU, but you go a., defend your position and rationalize away the FACT that you are an example of an American Leech.

Because as long as it makes YOU feel better, it's all okay, right??

No, I did not miss that you say you are a tax PAYING citizen. So tell me, did you get a refund last year or did you have to write a check and actually PAY taxes with your return??

There is a difference in case you didn't know. Refund means the .gov only BORROWED your money for a while. Having a tax liability higher than the money they take out of your paycheck is being a REAL taxpayer.

[edit on 8/15/09 by redhatty]



I had to join to address this. While I do agree with you on the issue of Leeches, your whole argument is still pretty hard to swallow. You need to learn to think a. enough to be aware of secondary and tertiary consequences and reactions. Have you ever been a drug addict? Do you know what its like? Im going to guess no by your previous replies. Have you ever see what some addicts are willing to do to get their "medicine" ? Not that im calling the OP a straight up drug addict, like he said, he got hurt, and was prescribed his medicine legally. However, I think its worth paying a little extra upfront if it will reduce the chances of another crazy drug addict robbing my grandmother. This is just one small minute example.

Secondly, YOU WILL benefit someday from this system, too. Im 22, just got out of college and cant find a job (worth my degree) due to the economy. I cant afford and do not have health insurance right now. If i get into an accident 30 minutes from now, im screwed. And either way, you'll still have another burden on society. why should I have to subsidize YOUR retirement with my SS "donation" every other week, when I WONT BE GETTING IT WHEN ITS MY TIME? Maybe If didnt have to pay for that, i might be able to finagle some form of private health insurance.

Third, all of you "rich and well to do people" need to learn to share the wealth around a little bit. Once someone has lost everything, they dont care. Ever read about the French Revolution? yea that was because a bunch of greedy people eroded away at the lower classes until THEY JUST DIDNT CARE ANYMORE. Im sure right before they walked up to that guillotine they realized, "hey, maybe if i had given out some CHARITY these people wouldnt be KILLING me right now."

Fourth, more than likely, over say the next 20 years, the cost of socialized healthcare would decrease, as more and more people would be able to take preventative measures and screenings, thus reducing the number of serious cases which do cost a lot of money.

Also, I would like to say im not an opponent or proponent of obamacare, as everyone on this website already knows, our government has been bought since they killed Kennedy, and anytime the Gov't comes in and shakes something up, its usually most beneficial to their Buddies!



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


This true is story. I dont know who the hell you think you are coming on here like Mr. High and Mighty making judgment calls on every post here. As though your opinions and thoughts are the REAL ones and everybody else is just lying and/or stupid. What I said is true, and you are the one who needs to be called out for your vile crap. Do you think everyone is hanging on to every word you say for truth? Get over yourself.

I don' t appreciate being called a Liar, and I am not a child. You, sir, are apparently not even capable of common decent courtesy to another ATS member. You show no charity, no decency, and no respect.

I absolutely was in no way replying to you and certainly do not wish to encourage further discourse with you in any capacity whatsoever.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Twilly
Medicare and Medicad were put in place because everyone gets down on their luck sometimes, and needs help. But the leeches that stay on it for years are the ones we need to address.

OP, Do you have pay TV? A Car? Internet access?

Yeah, I thought so, you made a CHOICE to avoid paying health care, you can afford it, but CHOOSE not to. And why not, If I will pay it for you.

I've got no problem helping someone else up when their down. But you need to walk on your own.


I don't recall anyone arguing for leeches. The problem is when John Doe's wife has complications with her pregnancy and they end up with a bill for 1.5million dollars, or the problem is when an insurance company denies care to a teenager and they die because the operation did not get approval, etc. The system is far beyond broken. I find it disturbing how the right have no regard for their fellow Americans in need. Shame on you all.



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