"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

reply to post by EnlightenUp

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If you have not been made personally privy to the inner workings of the machine (I have) by the machine (I have) you could not possibly understand the nature of the machine and how it runs and what makes it function.

All you would be able to do is speculate and argue.

That in itself outlines the very problem you wish to address in a general and superficial way.

Denial of fact does not make it not fact.

Denial of intent does not mean intent did not and does not exist.

Debate for the mere purpose of debate and for no other reason than to find something to debate is not productive but counter productive.

The government is corrupt at it's core, the constitution long dead and a relatively small group of international oligarchs rule this nation and own the vast and overwhelming majority of it's lawmakers as they own the vast and overwhelming majority of the banks, industry, farming and transportation, distribution and communications networks.

Most people can accept most of that basic truth, what they can't accept is just how much control they have over the government and it's politicians and how truly self serving they are and the real extent of it's destructive effect on the fabric of the nation.

While you argue symantics the nation goes further down the tubes and into the abyss.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Perhaps you are making assumptions about my background. Without saying too much, I could have chosen a path where I joined in on all the fun. It was open for the taking. Sly little offers were made that seemed incidental where if taken would show to whom I pledge allegiance and kick the door open were I ambitious in that domain. Instead I took my chances and can live with that. Still, still, it comes once in a great while. They never quite stop. So what. It doesn't bother me. I keep my distance. I know where I stand.

Friend once again the topic is about the Corporate Government and the influence of lobbyists on the Corporate Government.

I believe the Corporate Government to be an illegal and uncostitutional entity!

Do you have anything of quality to contribute to the discussion/debate on the corporate government and corporate lobbyists?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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I thought the topic was SkepticOverlord's personal experience with lobbying in Washington along with the pervasive "get him" attitude. Thus, he did not seem to suggest a way that it became so. You did.

I do not find your explanation hinging upon the civil war and congress ajourning "sine die", etc. to be compelling mechanism, that is all. My assessment is that it was there from the start and grew as a natural degenerative disease of the system out of the self-interest of the players above all else. The thing is, is that if the Constitution is still technically in force, then what we have is in violation of it. If it was completely usurped and replaced by something else, then it is moot and if everything that is going on is legal under that law, well, then it is legal and not in conflict, even if we dislike it.

Like in physics, there can be many theories to explain observed phenomena. Invalid theories are discarded as conflicting data is gathered by new observations, better measurements, etc. All prevailing ones could eventually be disproven and we have to try again.

Your argument seems to try to undermine the basis for legal redress under the original but still technically in-effect supreme law of the land and leaves rebellion against the currently occupying force, who instituted their own form of government when they took over in 1861 and keep the Constitution around as a piece of paper to mesmerize the unwashed, as the only option. By your assessment any authority it has is symbolic thus can only be used as a means of rallying troops for an upcoming war, nothing else.

This game is not as simple as it appears. It is not a case of "they're all corrupt" or "they're all looking out for us". Some that appear as one can be the other. It won't get sorted out for a long time. Some is in the Vatican Archives and should be available to scholars in about a hundred years. So, I guess I can't prove anything conclusive about the players and their actual motives for about a century. Even if I could, it would be bad form to do so at this point.

Exactly your problem Proto. You have beliefs that are unsubstantiated. If someone presents you with real evidence you seem to reject it. Why is that? Can we focus on the facts? Can you present proof to your "Beliefs" ?



Again with the beliefs. Please oh please, for the love of god and truth, PRESENT SOME PROOF!


[edit on 27-9-2009 by memarf1]

I am not from the US. Forgive me, but I cannot understand why so many people are slandering and abusing President Obama. Many people across the world look up to him and see him as a beacon of light for the rebuilding of the US's reputation. It will be a long and slow process. But why are so many people trying to tear him down? It is very sad to see.

One of the worst and most racist attacks came as someone photoshopped a picture of a traditional Papua New guinea Huli tribesman proudly wearing his bilas (traditional costume) with President Obama's head superimposed, pretending he was an "African witch doctor". This shows great ignorance and contempt for the Papua New Guinea culture and traditions stolen for this stupid photo. his has caused great offence to many of my friends in Papua New Guinea and has lead to protests to the US Embassy in PNG.

Papua New Guinea citizens are demanding an apology from the US.

Here is one typical local news report -

"PNG anger over Obama witchdoctor image

* From correspondents in Port Moresby, PNG From: AAP
* September 29, 2009 1:55PM

PAPUA New Guinea has become embroiled in an American race row after US President Barack Obama was depicted as a witchdoctor by opponents of his healthcare policy.

In the offending image, a headshot of Obama was superimposed on a photograph of a PNG Highlands region Huli wigman in full traditional costume, supposedly to portray the black president as an African witchdoctor.

A US organisation known as The Tea Party mocked up the image as part of their three-week series of protests across the US against controversial healthcare reforms.

The image has upset PNG citizens, particularly those living in the US, and ignited a furious debate online and in PNG newspapers.

Popular Detroit-based PNG blogger David Ketepa said the image was disgusting.

"Many Papua New Guineans living in the US and around the world are angered by the picture,'' she said.

David Ulg Ketepa blogged that media organisations have flooded his email inbox seeking interviews.

"The sad thing that I noted from this bunch of emails is that, nobody knew where PNG is,'' he said.

"It gives me an impression that most Americans are ignorant and do not want to reason out things before opening their mouths,'' he said.

US news network CNN asked Tea Party member Joe Wierzbicki whether the image was racist or satirical.

''(It) says to me that a lot of people in this country are angry about the direction that the Administration and Congress are taking us,'' he said.

Former US president Jimmy Carter described Republican Joe Wilson's outburst "you lie'' during Mr Obama's healthcare address to Congress earlier this month as the "aversion to have a black person as president''."

reply to post by butlincat

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Thank you. I have heard alot of hubbub about this man and listened to an interview or two but never found him very interesting. His demeanor was that of a deceiver or someone with grandiose delusion-- I could not ignore his shifty nature. Your post clinched his status either as a complete and utter fraud or he's just wearing war paint.

SO, give the guy a chance. From what I've both seen and read (seems like Controlled US Media), Republicans and Palin are surely researched monsters of political levitation against Obama.

Control the media, you control the show.

Decoy

reply to post by Decoy

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i can't figure out what you are trying to say. if by "the guy" you mean obama, can't you tell by now the direction he's taking the country? where his priorities are? he has a great deal of power, given the democrat majority in congress. seems to me we've seen a lot already. at the moment the dollar is collapsing.

as for the state controlled media, that doesn't entirely rule the show because people talk, people think, people have personal concerns that go beyond media. we also now have more sources of information than ever before.

finally, i can't determine what you are saying about palin etc being monstrously researched. there is no reason for palin to be in any political discussion these days. the liberals believe she is the bogeyman and use her to scare the people, but she's nobody special at this point.

Nevermind.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

Those cotton candy dreams, gum drop smiles, and rainbow wishes that you speak of are not false words giving false hopes. Accompaning all those speeches is him saying that he can not do this, congress can not do this, it has to be the american people that do this. He is saying what any leader has said even Bush. He is promoting that we all work together. Not just Rep & Dem but all of America, Black, white, asian, young, old, Rep, Dem, Lib. It does not matter who you are we all need to work together for the betterment of this country. I doubt that we will see many if any things change during Obama's time in Office but what we you see is the seeds of hope and change implanted in our youth who will then bring to fruition what Obama is preaching now.

Obama is as compentent a polictican as any. Personally I say we need some one in power that has not been currpted by DC.

Well, I've always feared that this hate mongering propaganda would lead to another assassination with us all in concentration camps the next day. I know some of you say "I would never do that" but have you given any thought to what you are saying to encourage others?
Trust me, he was chosen not to be a messiah, but the last martyr of Free America because it will be easier for someone to want to move against him as opposed to someone like Bush - there was the same hate mongering going on there as well, but no one ever said "lynch him".
More than ever we need to realize that we are being herded into chopping off our own heads playing the game "kill the king."
I've always said if money could not be made from war, there would be no war. Ever.

Seems to me, as an outsider SO, You Americans have VOTED-in the right man for the job. President Obama sure is green but aren't they all when they step into Office?

Seems he has your economy headed up through his leadership and that of his financial Gurus. My point of view remains -- thank god bUSH2's gone and good riddens to the him. Unless others can say for sure.. I'm not sure B2 will have a "presidential Museum"?.

Maybe Daddeo can share his with'm?

Decoy

I didn't read all 36 pages but did want to respond to the topic post.

It was a good post, the description almost freakish of what our government has evolved into, or what it has always been beneath the facade.

Gordions knot political solution: It isn't a political problem, it's a human being problem. It's the reality that one out of every 25 people is a clinical psychopath, lacking empathy. No matter what you build, regardless of of how clever, unique, or even fool proof and fail safe, your building it with human beings. And four percent of those human beings aren't like the rest, even though they look, act, and even smell like everyone else.

That is the core issue. It's also disturbing to the extreme. But it is the reality of this ant farm we call Earth. Personally I think it's designed to be this way, a built-in flaw with a predictable and repeating outcome. I also think it is something we as a species are eventually going to have to confront and address, one way or another. Either as a positive step in our evolution or in earnest for the sake of our very survival.

Voight-Kampf test anyone?

"Damn the county, Obama must fail" - Don't worry, he doesn't need any help at failing

Then you would be swapping one problem for another...imagine the kind of dedication the incumbents would show knowing they only have 4 years to amass huge wealth and influence...the place would be hectic.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

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Save the country! Obama must fail!
If Cap & Trade fails, the country is saved from higher unemployment.
If ObamaCare fails, the country is saved from financial disaster.
The price tag is really well over $2 Trillion.