"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail", page 38


Pages: <<  35    36    37    38    39    40  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 353 times


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 12:02 AM by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to
post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



What is wrong with corporate lobbying?
That comes with capitalism.
Now if we bring in the Iron Fist of socialism and scare away all of the
capitalists that's a step in the right direction?


You see you are asking a lot of rudimentary questions that were discussed in great detail in the thread.

You would actually have your answers already if you read the thread.

Then you could ask intelligent questions, we could have an intelligent discussion about the actual thread.

If you aren't interested in the thread you could start your own thread about what it is you like to talk about!

The thread has dozens and dozens of pages and is one of the most important and landmark threads authored on ATS in the past year.

A number of the staff, the owners, and some of ATS's brightest members put a lot of work and effort into the posts in this thread.

You should read the thread!


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 12:16 AM by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SkepticOverlord



I was just responding to your post.
KSM trial - terrorists - Ronald Reagan ??? Your post.



reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 12:46 AM by Eurisko2012
reply to post by antideceit



Well said. I think the OP wants us all to rally around Obama
and just do whatever he wants. That way Obama succeeds
and it looks glorious in the history books.
------------------------------------------------------------
OOPS! Look what has happened to the country!
Obama succeeded? Look at the ripple effects of his actions?
We all need to think 10 years ahead not 10 minutes ahead.
Obama must and will fail for the good of the nation.
-----------------------------------------
BTW, that Van Jones guy was a red flag. Who hired that
guy? Glen Beck taught the public who he "truly" was.
Then he had to leave.


[edit on 16-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 01:12 AM by antideceit
reply to post by Eurisko2012



Yep, unfortunately , as we have witnessed, many of his policies have succeeded and America has definitely been hurt by them.
The constitution keeps getting in Obama's way though, but his crew is sure working overtime to find ways around that pesky thing.

It was Obama that personally hired Van Jones, they have been pals for a long time from what I have read in the past about it.
What hurt Van Jones besides talk radio and TV was his own past speeches and his clear anti American rantings..





reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 01:25 AM by antideceit
reply to post by SkepticOverlord



I think it is important to note though, that the MSM has been using that and spinning it to mean that his opponents just want him to fail as president, but not what it was originally meant that they just hoped his anti-American policies failed. I was a witness to all of that because I listened to all the talk radio shows before the MSM picked it up and started trying to use it against the conservatives by changing what was actually meant originally.
If Obama did anything at all that actually supported freedom and liberty, then I would even support him. But all he is doing is power grab after power grab and more attempts at huge power grabs like what was actually in the health care legislation.. if that thing passed, it would be good bye America already. Thank God he failed at that (so far).



reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 01:33 AM by antideceit
reply to post by Grumble



I don't support republicans anymore, since quite awhile, because I was seeing both sides doing corrupt things and revoking liberties and freedoms on a daily basis.
I do support traditional conservative practices, but the republican party has lost a lot of those traits a long time back, but there are a few good people still left. Even the democrats of today have totally no resemblence to the democrats of say, 40 years ago.


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 01:48 AM by antideceit
reply to post by SkepticOverlord



The health care bill was a total power grab and would not have saved money. It would have eventually killed private insurance companies.
It was worded and constructed to help the federal gov. get massive power over people, most people know this already, at least anyone that has read the bill's contents, but then a lot of the bills supporters will just say that was misinterpreted.
People that didn't wish to participate in the federal health care could be fined or even jailed for contempt, after refusing to pay a fine).
Right after health care failed recently we witnessed some states crafting immediate legislation that made it illegal to be forced to get the federally mandated coverage, or rather, made laws to protect people that refused to get it..Virginia was the first I believe.
These are just a couple reasons why I think the health care bill was bad. Actually "bad" isn't the real adjective I would use.
Even states with plenty of liberals in power were seen running away from the health care monstrosity


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 09:11 AM by SkepticOverlord
Originally posted by antideceit
The health care bill was a total power grab and would not have saved money. It would have eventually killed private insurance companies.

I didn't see it that way... especially since there are lots of good reasons to revise the way private insurance delivers money for care.


The state of the health care reform bill is somewhat related to this thread, and directly related to the prefabricated political divide that has the nation in a death-grip.


ATS is a conspiracy theory focused venue, and one of the longest-running conspiracies discussed here is the nature of two-party politics in the US and the way it distracts the public from either real issues or what the government is really doing in other areas. Keep the populace evenly divided along passion-inducing lines, and they become easier to influence, control, or fool.

There are plenty of examples of "progressive" government-sponsored healthcare systems in the world that provide excellent examples of what works, and what doesn't. A relatively simple government-backed system that merges with the existing private insurance industry infrastructure isn't difficult to imagine or implement.

Instead of using their new-found "political capital" from a historic majority, the democrats fashioned a lame compromise of a healthcare reform bill that was designed to fail... but to fail in a massively distracting and drawn-out national debate that further enhanced the political divide and fueled intensely partisan rhetoric.

In my opinion, this proposed healthcare form bill is hugely successful. But not as healthcare reform, which is was never intended to do, but as the latest strategic initiative to keep the nation divided and distracted.


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 10:08 AM by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by antideceit



The lobbyists for the Insurance Industry and Pharmaceutical Industry have already taken advantage of the pending legislation to increase fees and prices and raise their revenues by an estimated 14% to date through pricing structures being pre-negotiated with Congress and already being implemented on the supply side.

Perhaps the easiest thing in the world for Obama to have done was to craft a comprehensive health bill of his own, well except for the fact that he lacks the legislative and logistical skills to do it. Yet had he produced a single solitary bill that actually delivered something along the lines that the people had been led to believe they could expect, it would have been relatively easy, early on in his Administration to present it and get the Democratic Party Controlled house and senate to vote on it and pass it.

Instead all he did was give congress an open invitation to send out an open call to the Insurance Companies and Pharmaceutical Companies to come into the process and promote the ideas that would pad their bottom lines and profits and enjoin the Congress in a massive lobbying effort where presumably a competition between different bills would yield not the best legislation for the people but for the Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries.

It has in fact been a classic example of how corporations and lobbyists bog down and control the political process and how they bring their wants to the forefront essentially edging out and cutting off the people from representation in the process.

That whole process of lobbying by corporations for sweetheart deals, fixed prices and contracts has nothing to do with partisanship, most big corporations donate heavily to both sides of the political aisle, and they purchase favor and a voice regardless of party.

The Health Care Bill(s) were all in fact written in a way and a manner to frighten people and have the people ultimately not only fight to keep the existing system but to create an opportunity for the existing system to become even more profitable and favorable for the Insurance and Drug Companies in the process.

On a side note as a member who read and started posting to this thread at its inception I can say unequivocally that it wasn’t authored to promote one side or the other of the political divide and wasn’t really about partisan politics. It was much more rather about the effect lobbying and lobbyists have on the functionality of government for the people and the lobbyist’s own concerns confided in Skeptic Overlord that partisanship in Washington had risen to a new level that the lobbyists themselves had to adjust to and work around in their own efforts to get Congress to pass favorable legislation for them.

Healthcare reform when attempted by Hilary Clinton in the first Clinton Administration turned out to be an embarrassing disaster, yielded no results, and ended the notion that a First Lady could and should take on a legislative role in government.

Obama certainly had to be aware through that relatively recent example that seizing on a healthcare imitative early on in his administration would not only bog it down in similar controversy and sully its prestige and produce no tangible results other than bogging down his administration and diminishing his prestige.

So if he knew those would be the likely results going into it, and he had to know they would be the likely results going in to it, you then have to ask the question why would he attempt it. The answer is as Skeptic Overlord wisely suggests, to distract the people from other more important issues like the economy, corporate bailouts and the wars.

In the end there will be no comprehensive health care bill and the Insurance Companies and the Drug Companies will be that much more entrenched and profitable in the current system that the majority of people have been more or less tricked into embracing the increasing higher costs and decreased services of out of fear of a worse system imposed by the government.

Its all just manipulation by the corporations on a grand scale.


reply posted on 16-2-2010 @ 03:56 PM by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SkepticOverlord



Team Obama needs to listen to 61% of the American people and
just throw out the 2,000+ page monster and start over.
This time don't change the locks to the conference room.
Invite the Republicans in and do this right.
Step 1] Tort Reform

Pages: <<  35    36    37    38    39    40  >>    ^^TOP^^



GOP moves to keep Gary Johnson off the ballot
  Posted 9 days ago with 32 member flags
The GOP Conspiracy – Hidden in Plain Site
  Posted 10 days ago with 14 member flags
The JFK Assassination, An Overview
  Posted 19 days ago with 12 member flags
The Politics of Rape
  Posted 3 days ago with 10 member flags
Retreat! Government shuts Arpaio probe; no charges filed
  Posted 11 days ago with 9 member flags
Feminism and the Reorganization of Society
  Posted 2 days ago with 6 member flags