Palin 'death panel' claim sets Truth-O-Meter ablaze

I have not seen a level of idiocy on this sight reach such heights until this post. All of you seem ready and more than willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because Obama is God and Palin is too pretty to be taken seriously.
This bill has NOTHING to do with Healthcare, that's why they changed it to Insurance reform. It has nothing to do with insurance reform either. It has to do with centralizing power. Don't you know that if everyone is under Government care they can make it illegal to refuse a Vaccination? Does that reason alone not make you stop and think for your selves. No, they wouldn't do that now would they!
Lets get a grip on the Palin bashing and take a look at the article in World Net Daily. Why is National Guard recruiting for 'internment' cops?
Ad campaign seeks workers at 'civilian resettlement facility'

Wake up sheeple!!!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Originally posted by jsmappy
I have not seen a level of idiocy on this sight reach such heights until this post.

Really how so?

All of you seem ready and more than willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because Obama is God and Palin is too pretty to be taken seriously.

Actually it's that kind of ambiguous logic at which Palin excels. This thread is an attempt to get to the bottom of her blatant lies about "death panels".

This bill has NOTHING to do with Healthcare, that's why they changed it to Insurance reform. It has nothing to do with insurance reform either. It has to do with centralizing power.

So you're concerned about centralization of power. How does that relate to Palin?

Don't you know that if everyone is under Government care they can make it illegal to refuse a Vaccination?

It pretty much already is.

Does that reason alone not make you stop and think for your selves. No, they wouldn't do that now would they!

Lets get a grip on the Palin bashing and take a look at the article in World Net Daily.

Ok that was just funny

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

Do you think private companies will be able to compete with a goverment and there endless money printing presses? They wont be able therefore it will be a MONOPLY... You know what are money is going to be with all the spending there doing.

New York City has illegals and many people without health care.
Those are the ones washing the skyscraper windows that fall off
and need health care.
OK, an extreme case but health care is going to millions of people
that do not pay.
I know of two or three hospitals closings that were not city hospitals.
What is that.
So now the city can't handle it.
The government can't support private institutions, sure try AIG.
They can't get too hurt falling off their mansions.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
I'm not agreeing with what Palin said, because the bill does not say anything about a "death board", but I will label this article "misleading".

As somebody that has read this bill, I would like to point out that this article completely forgets to mention the fact that the Health and Human Services Secretary will appoint a panel that will decide what treatments should be administered. The HHS Secretary also has the power to either approve or deny I a request for treatment that has not been approved, and there is no judicial review for the decision that the Secretary makes.

The panel that they are talking about does exist, but they neglected the part about the panel that will be appointed by the HHS Secretary that will decide which treatments shall be administered.

Thank you for setting the record straight.
The Left Wing Loons love to cherry pick and mislead the public.
The truth is that under ObamaCare old people will be thrown under the bus.
The seniors know this.
That is why they are crowding into all these town hall meetings.
Obama has said himself that some old people should be given a
pain pill instead of expensive health care.
Take a number and wait or go to India. They have good doctors there.
I heard the Canadians will fly to India for surgery if America goes
down the toilet with ObamaCare.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

There you go. You stumbled onto the truth.
ObamaCare does not directly create a Canadian Health Care system BUT
it would indirectly create the same mess that they have in Canada by
driving the private system out of business.
That is their dirty little secret that everybody now knows.
As of today, i would say ObamaCare has a 50/50 chance of failing.
BTW Pelosi calling the seniors "unamerican" was very foolish.
That just threw gasoline on the fire.
Sometimes i wonder if she has any common sense.

]Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

Your statement reveals your intelligence. And integrity. And honesty.

What do you think "Single Payer" means?

There will be no private insurance. Obama has said so, himself.

Before he denied it.

Deny Ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
New York City has illegals and many people without health care.
Those are the ones washing the skyscraper windows that fall off
and need health care.
OK, an extreme case but health care is going to millions of people
that do not pay.
I know of two or three hospitals closings that were not city hospitals.
What is that.
So now the city can't handle it.
The government can't support private institutions, sure try AIG.
They can't get too hurt falling off their mansions.

keep in mind that lots of hospitals are closing for a reason which lies squarely with them. More and more hospital infections are showing up. Nurses and Doctors just are not washing their hands between each patient.

This is resulting in more and more deaths from hospital acquired infections.

In Ohio, the Insurance companies are no longer footing the bill for complications due to hospital acquired infections.

That means the Hospitals have a much higher cost, and they are the only ones to blame.

Originally posted by jdub297
]Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

Your statement reveals your intelligence. And integrity. And honesty.

What do you think "Single Payer" means?

Ok I had this discussion the other day, but let's do it again.

Single-payer health care is a term used in the United States to describe the payment of doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single fund, which is typically public and non-profit. It differs from, and replaces, typical private health insurance where, through pricing and other measures taken by the insurer, the level of risks carried by multiple insurance pools as well as the coverage can vary and the pricing has to be varied according to the contribution of risk added to the pool. It is often mentioned as one way to deliver near-universal or universal health care. The administrator of the fund could be the government but it could also be a publicly owned agency regulated by law.

A single payer system need not be, and should not to be confused with, "socialized medicine," which refers to a system, like the U.S. Veterans Administration, "in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government."[1][2] Some single payer health systems like that in the UK, are based on socialized medicine, while others like Canada's, in which doctors do not all work for the government, are not. The term single payer thus only describes the funding mechanism —referring to health insurance being funded through a single public body— and does not specify the type of delivery, or who doctors work for.

Australia's Medicare, Canada's Medicare, and healthcare in Taiwan are examples of single-payer universal health care systems. According to the National Library of Medicine's Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) thesaurus, a single-payer system is:

An approach to health care financing with only one source of money for paying health care providers. The scope may be national, like the Canadian system, state-wide, or community-based. The payer may be a governmental unit or other entity such as an insurance company. The proposed advantages include administrative simplicity for patients and providers, and resulting significant savings in overhead costs.[3]

Single-payer health care does not necessarily mean that the government or some government agency delivers or commissions health care services. The single payer may pay for health professionals and services that are delivered in either private or public sector settings according to the needs and wishes of the patient and his or her doctor.

Single-payer is one alternative proposed for health care reform in the United States, which is the only high-income industrialized country in the world that does not have some version of national public health care (though every single state has a public health care system of some kind).[4] Though most physicians in the United States are in favor of some form of national health insurance system [5], this does not necessarily imply support for a single payer system.

Now... as you can see.. medicare is a single payer system. So is medicaid. Are you on either of those? Are private insurers still in business? yes.

That said Single Payer System does not mean Only System Available.

Please perform research prior to insulting me.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Is it possible that the entire death panel thing is misunderstood?
Palin is an idiot by the way

That was one of the best videos I have ever seen!

Sorry.

But Keith Olbermann and "best videos I have ever seen" = an oxymoron IMO.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

This bill is a start. It is not ObamaCare. It doesn't have anything in it which is specifically something Obama is looking for other than reform. We will get there... but not yet.

You really don't know, do you?

Barack Obama created his plan for a nationl helath care program. He sent it to Congress to craft the bill according to his plan.

He chose to avoid what happened in 1993 by letting the Democrats in Congress take the "blame." Recall what happened to Bill and Hillary. Hillary was one of the advisers who told him how to avoid the inevitable backlash that ruined the Clintons' plan, and essentially, his presidential initiatives.

This may have come from the House of Representatives, but it is Obama's plan.

For 'single payer.' For the elimination of private insurance. For a monopoly.

You really don't know.

This in not conspiracist talk or anti-Obama. It is documented fact.

Find the npr.org site, find the Diane Rehm show and listen to the discussion led by Obama's supporters who state each of these things live on the air.

You really don't know. You are intentionally misleading aren't you?

You are being lied to!

Deny ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

There you go. You stumbled onto the truth.
ObamaCare does not directly create a Canadian Health Care system BUT
it would indirectly create the same mess that they have in Canada by
driving the private system out of business.
That is their dirty little secret that everybody now knows.
As of today, i would say ObamaCare has a 50/50 chance of failing.
BTW Pelosi calling the seniors "unamerican" was very foolish.
That just threw gasoline on the fire.
Sometimes i wonder if she has any common sense.

Pelosi never called the people unamerican. She said that anytime we try to shout others down, that is being unamerican.

Please once again, check your sources. Lots of headlines are twisting this phrase.

But to be honest, she calls everything she doesn't like unamerican... google pelosi and un-american and you will see what I mean.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Never said you lied or are telling lies. I just dont think your thinking this whole thing out and reading the whole bill. It doesnt make since for the Goverment to have a Monoply on our health care. Doesnt make since one bit. Not to mention it is illegal to have a monoply.

Well this bill is not about the gov having a monopoly. This is just for the Govs single Payer system, if you were a part of it. You won't necessarily be, unless you believe the Private insurers will be unable to compete.

Do you think private companies will be able to compete with a goverment and there endless money printing presses? They wont be able therefore it will be a MONOPLY... You know what are money is going to be with all the spending there doing.

I know one thing for sure... the consumer with the private insurance companies will definitely benefit.

Their cost *WILL* come down.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You've done an excellent job of insulting all by yourself.
(As Vizzini once said, "Your words reveal everything!")

You've done an extremely poor job of critical analysis and objective critique.

"Single payer," as envisioned under Obama's system (you don't deny that anymore, do you?), will drive health insurer's out of business.

You will have an "option" in name only, and only for a limited time.
See: Canada.

Your "Medicaid/Medicare" example just proves how wrong you are!

No insurance carrier provides either type of coverage. Many provide "Medicare Supplement" coverage to cover the government programs' inadequacies!

There are video and audio proof of Obama's intent to kill insurers. There're ATS threads documenting this as well.

You just don't want to know, do you?

Topically, despite your false "rebuttal" claims, you've yet to prove that Section 1233 doesn't permit exactly what I've shown it to.

jw

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Pelosi never called the people unamerican. She said that anytime we try to shout others down, that is being unamerican.

Please once again, check your sources. Lots of headlines are twisting this phrase.

Forget headlines. Watch the video. She says exactly that.

Check your sources at the door. We don't allow that junk in legitimate discussions.

jw

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Medicare and Medicaid are severely limited in who gets them, and it's all funded by taxpayers. Private insurers are able to fill in the gap between those who don't qualify for either program. When the government offers insurance to anyone who wants it, there is no longer a means for private insurers to stay in business, especially if the government regulates who can hand out insurance and who can't. Eventually, the government will hold a monopoly over the health insurance industry, this is inevitable.

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

You've done an excellent job of insulting all by yourself.
(As Vizzini once said, "Your words reveal everything!")

You've done an extremely poor job of critical analysis and objective critique.

"Single payer," as envisioned under Obama's system (you don't deny that anymore, do you?), will drive health insurer's out of business.

It will definitely make them competitive... I have yet to see any EVIDENCE which states it will drive them out of business. Just posters like you who are convinced of this without any evidence.

You will have an "option" in name only, and only for a limited time.
See: Canada.

Not even worried about Canada, as this new system is not anywhere near being based on Canada.

Your "Medicaid/Medicare" example just proves how wrong you are!

Are you saying Medicaid and Medicare are not single payer systems? I'm not sure what you are saying I am wrong about.

No insurance carrier provides either type of coverage. Many provide "Medicare Supplement" coverage to cover the government programs' inadequacies!

I'm still unsure of what you are saying. I simply stated that both medicare and medicaid are single payer systems.


Oh well...

Hey when you get some facts, backed up with research, then let me know. Otherwise I'm going to consider you Yet Another Fear Mongerer.

Originally posted by Highground
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Medicare and Medicaid are severely limited in who gets them, and it's all funded by taxpayers.

Well yeah, it's a government system. I would expect it to be funded by tax payers.

Private insurers are able to fill in the gap between those who don't qualify for either program. When the government offers insurance to anyone who wants it, there is no longer a means for private insurers to stay in business,

You are right.. not at the prices they are charging, and not with the BILLIONS of dollars they spend in court costs, simply to deny claims.

especially if the government regulates who can hand out insurance and who can't. Eventually, the government will hold a monopoly over the health insurance industry, this is inevitable.

I don't agree with this, but I can't state for fact that it won't happen. I mean if they can't compete, shouldn't they fold?

Isn't that was people were arguing should happen to GM etc?