WAR: Video Shows Beheading of American Civilian Nick Berg by Al Qaeda Group

Originally posted by spacedoubt
so many people have no sense of self preservation

How true, spacedoubt. That's what this boils down to.

I want the people who would kill me to die, and quickly. I have no interest in their suffering or torture--this is a matter of survival. I want them removed from the equation, period.

The range of opinions in this thread make my head spin. I do not understand how so many people can not take seriously the threats that are placed before them. So much finger-pointing...so much blame. Does anyone think that maybe we should hold the people who did this accountable, rather than blaming the president? Farfetched, I know.

The devil didn't make them do it, Allah didn't tell them to do it, there was no-one holding a gun to their heads. They decapitated this man because they are wicked, evil people. This is the choice they made. Feel free to collectively ignore the fact that they'd love to do this to all of us if you will, I cannot.

I stand by each and every one of the statements I made in my earlier post. If the cold reality of a non-involved noncombatant being butchered like a farm animal isn't enough to convince you of their intentions, then there is nothing that can be done to dissuade you from your illusions.

tahoma

Listen, i support President Bush in everyway, i voted for him and will again, and again, and again as long as he is in power. He has been maybe not the only one President according to my views that has done something real, the man kicks some real ass, he might be short but size really dosen't matter to me or it shouldn't matter to or anyone else. Get for real man and pay attention to what really is happening out there. These crazy muslims or whatever you want to call them have started this war with us Americans, and believe me, as long as Bush is President, he will end this war one way or another. As for that guy Berg, he was told by the Military in Iraq that they suggest that he leave Iraq, cause things are getting real ugly, and Berg replied that he will be ok, and that he will be leaving soon. All i can say is that i believe it was his own fault for not leaving sooner. What made Berg think that being in that crazy ignorant country he would be safe, he is to blame for his own demise, that is my personal opinion.

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Rosym38]

Where's the liberal outcry over this? There won't be any, they don't care about Americans getting killed, just terrorist getting nude and having underwear on their head.

Where all the other outcry is, it's just no long distinguishable as "liberal" ie. too open minded for your views.

YOU LEFTIES SHOULD NOW GO WASH THE BLOOD FROM YOUR HANDS, ARE YA HAPPY NOW!

There's no blood on their hands, only the guilty, those who did this and perhaps those who set the situation up to blow, the American administration. Under no circumstances do I condone this, they had no right nor will they ever have the right to kill someone, but the U.S. has been giving them the reason to. They're just humans too and they can be just as easily swept up in the moment as any of us, they were angry and they had a reason to avenge, if no right to do so. Also remeber there is a distinct difference between the actions of these terrorists and the American military, namely that what the American military does is being done in the name of all Americans. There should be outcry and rage against both, however you can only change your own actions for the better and hope the other follows suite.

There is simply no comparison between Christianity and Islam when it comes to savagery.

Sure there is, they both think killing shouldn't be done, but both have perpetrated just that! I swear they all need some sence slapped into them, I apologise to those that try to actually follow what the basis of their religion teaches but there are all too many that don't.

AND....we're the ones who dropped the A-Bombs. It is IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO THINK WE'RE COWARDS AFTER THAT!

Dropping atomic weaponry on an enemy who you know can't respond in kind, on cities which are mainly civilian, makes no heros nor brave men. It means you're willing to kill civilians to get at the goverment because it may cost your military too much. Bravery was Stalingrad, St. Peterburg, Moscow, the Pacific landings, Normandy or more recently Rwanda where the American goverment refused to send help to the U.N. forces there to protect civilians from the worst genocide since WWII. I don't think the U.S. military is cowardly, but certainly the goverment is, every U.S. soldier should be insulted by the cowardly actions of their goverment, discrediting their own spirit.

Its that sort of nonchalant attitude that resulted in 6 million jews perishing.

I understand the intent but that's a bit harsh, even early U.S. involvment wouldn't have stopped millions of jews dying, unless of course the allies would work out sending forces through the U.S.S.R..................... but that would never happen.

I want to know where is the outcry from Amnesty and any other organization for what these demented people have done.... Why don't they go to Al Qaeda and present their cases with their paperwork to the extremist Islamic leaders?

You fail to understand the purpose of that organization, it's not about trying to right all wrongs, it's about holding goverments accountable for their actions towards their people, they've often helped get political prisoners out of trouble. Just because they have a section on the U.S dosen't mean they hate them, it just means the U.S. isn't perfect(suprise suprise), Canada has a sizable section too. If the U.S. is looking for ways to defuse tensions, look to the U.K. dealings in Northern Irland, considering they have this conflict region under their rule the U.K, had a very small section in the Amnesty international book(when I looked at lest who knows now).

What needs to be done now is for the US to line up 20 known AlQuaedaorhoweveryouspellit and cut their fingers and toes off one at a time and then after much pain cut their throats. Post in throughout the media and make sure they understand that if it happens to another US citizen then 20 more AlQuaedawhatevertheycallthemselves will die. This is what they understand. Drastic measures for desprate times.

You're a sick individual, not only would you sink below their level but you imply that their lives are worth 1/20th of and American life. It's the words of people like you that convince the people of the world to join organizations like Al Quaeda, I'm only glad that the U.S. is not soley composed of people such as you. You're not going to solve this with more blood, you will take losses and continue to do so regardless, but more bloodletting will only make it worse.

The US sould focus on the source of this problem:

ISRAEL

There's more to it then this, read "shake hands with the devil" to see how cold and uncaring American forign policy can be, the whole world for that matter, 'cept Canada, we were just confused like hell.

Wake up my friend, if America did not exist who would have ended WWII?

Russia would have managed it ..........eventually (V.E. 1950? ugh)with help from the U.K., Japan would simply be slowly building things up because it wouldn't have been antagonized! The later war vs. Japan would be a partial win for them though, U.K. would have to make some concessions, lose some colonies. However there can be little doubt that it was better with the U.S. involved, because the major powers(Russia, U.K.) would have been so drained from the effort that the world would have been let to run wild. Depression take 2? Regional conflicts all over......... not so pretty, U.S. power allowed things to stabalize afterwards.

The muslim religion contains a HUGE GROUP OF SUB-HUMAN INCESTUOUS PIGS.
Uneducated losers, who no longer belong to
the family of man in my opinion.

Careful, it's that type of judgement that convinces the terrorists to kill just any American in the first place, if one American is a horrible person who disgraced our people then they all must be and all must pay. I would suggest you try and understand just how many people you are condemning. More then the whole population of North America, more then have ever been killed in any war, around 1.2 Billion people of who the vast majority would be more disgusted then you at this because these sick bastards follow their religion.

why havent they put sanctions on the US for going agenst the UN decsion?

Sercurity council, U.S. veto.



I got to page 12 when I gave up on finishing this thread..... too late. To sum up what I think and feel here, I'm saddened that this has happened, but it was to be expected. I do not think that this violent act is so spactacular as to deserve the media attention it got, much worse has been done without it getting coverage, without care. I think anyone who wishes to understand a little more about how ethnic tensions, peacekeeping, the U.N. and human hate works should read "Shake hands with the devil". It's about Rwanda, a worse tragady by far then 9/11 and all the events surrounding the war on terror, it is a story of one mans journey through hell and eventually back. Read it, understand that what happened to Nick Berg is not nearly as exceptional as we would like be believe. I do not mean to undermine his death and the loss to his family, but I intend to underscore that he is just another in a very long list of civilian casualties around the world. In your 30 seconds to Nick Berg, also think of the 800 000 that died in Rwanda in 1994 in the churches, cities and roads. Also give a moment to those who have tried to bring this to light, Gen. Romeo Delaire and importantly his friend and collegue in the making of his book who commited suicide under the weight of the facts of the genocide. Give moments for the victims, two moments for the heros that went in anyways.

Amur_Tiger,

I said the muslim religion "CONTAINS"....a HUGE GROUP OF SUB-HUMAN INCESTUOUS PIGS.

Contains..like a bag can contain a bottle of vinegar, AND
a bottle of Honey.

Semantics yes, just wanted to be clear.

Why aren't you in Iraq Jedimaster, to teach those Barbarians some of your mindtricks?

As for my view on the beheading? Well I think the most interesting aspect of this is that Al-Quaeda seems to be taking the propagnda war to the Coalition. First Bin-Ladins peace offer (which was quickly committed to the memory hole) and now this, just after the abuse scandal. Great timing!

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Corinthas]

Your reply sums up the problem. Who do you Americans think you are to go about and "punish" everyone who refuse to accept the American way of life? As if you are so perfect !!

How grisly ironic that I perceive there to be a greater morality in this most savage act by a few Arabs than the morality in the equally savage acts carried out by those that presume a wordwide monopoly on civilised behaviour and always assume the moral high-ground � the U.S.. An open �execution� as vengeance for acts of torture & abuse on your countrymen seems somewhat less repulsive than the setting dogs on prisoners of war as SOME US troops have done, let alone the countless other POW deaths they have caused and then tried to hide. These few Americans have shown their true colours; displayed their true feelings of superiority, xenophobia and a nauseating ease in humiliating and torturing and abusing these funny bearded foreigners that they clearly consider subhuman. To Arabs this only confirms a long held suspicion of the contempt in which they are held by the US. What a polarised and sad place the Americans are turning the world into; they are making the world a worse place to be in, whilst bible bashing and crowing in the na�ve belief that they can make the world safer and better with the gun (�better� or �free-er� by the always selfish US standards of course). There will be MORE 9/11�s because of their actions � not LESS; millions of people now feel even more vindication in their feelings of victimisation by the US and the disgust they feel for their aggressor�s hypocrisy. In fact if I though a fellow �pow� countryman of mine was being tortured or killed at leisure by a foreign invader/liberator (your choice...) in my country, I would hope one of my fellow nationals would find this repugnant enough to make a stand for me too. What a world...

Originally posted by wmoller
Your reply sums up the problem. Who do you Americans think you are to go about and "punish" everyone who refuse to accept the American way of life? As if you are so perfect !!

I don't believe we Americans go in to punish. We went in to help the Iraqi's who were suffering under a ruthless dictator.

We aren't perfect. We do make mistakes. But we are a compassionate group of people who want others to possess what we have...freedom and prosperity.

We are not "using" Iraq or any other Arab country for oil. We pay their price for oil which provides much needed funds and jobs for their country.

I have a firm belief that everyone is an individual and it is extremely difficult to say "kill them all" because there are good people everywhere. The problem I mainly have is that they are making a$$es out of us in a major way here. They are using *our own* technology to spread the word of akabujubabi or whatever the hell their names are. The Internet was originally developed by the United States for *military* communications. I have not yet seen a link or url to this web site with the beheading. We're hiding the original information from our own people. Cut off these bastards' main form of communication. If a few thousand people hit this web site at the same time, it'll die. Or, we have so many morons spreading these viruses all the time with nothing better to do. Let's hack the site, get rid of the video, and put a picture of osama banging a camel on it instead. Also, I don't give a rat's a$$ if we let some military prisoners walk around with their schlongs hanging out. At this point, line em up and cut their # off and send it back to their parents. No excuse for beheading someone. And blame the president, why? He didn't hold that knife. We look like jackasses going against our own leader and our own country. Stand together people.

To those who are puzzled about the orange jumpsuit worn by Berg: I can go to WalMart and by an orange jumpsuit in the men's work clothes dept. I'm sure they are sold the world over. I bet there are some in Iraq and Afgahnistan just lying arround. You are grasping at straws.

Oh my God. I just saw the video of this. This is sicknin. ..............

The below threads are additional discussions on various detailed topics relating to the Nick Berg death... Was Nicholas Berg Executed by the CIA? Nicholas Berg Timeline and Video analysis Nick Berg and Zacarias Moussaoui Linked Nick Berg: US PsyOp sacrifice? Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines Surround American's Beheading New View on Nick Berg Is Aljazeera watching us? Re: Nick Berg

If we hadn't sold Saddam the gas, he couldn't have gassed the Kurds, whom Iraquis didn't particularly think of as Iraquis anyway.

Yes, we should mind our own business and let other countries mind theirs. I'm a liberal with no blood on my hands. George Bush, and the God he prays to, (and who talks to him) have a lot of blood on their hands.

Don't hate me because I'm an American, hate my government. (Quote from song "Idiot Son of an A------).

(Looking into emigrating. . . )

Originally posted by ShiftTrio

F@ck there Abuse, I am sure this solider had nothing to do with it, THey are using it as an excuse.

Time to take the gloves off. I have no more compassion for these people.

well said. i say we start playing there guirella(sp) warfare game. lets take all the insurgents and cut their heads off!

Originally posted by dalton
If we hadn't sold Saddam the gas, he couldn't have gassed the Kurds, whom Iraquis didn't particularly think of as Iraquis anyway.

Yes, we should mind our own business and let other countries mind theirs. I'm a liberal with no blood on my hands. George Bush, and the God he prays to, (and who talks to him) have a lot of blood on their hands.

Don't hate me because I'm an American, hate my government. (Quote from song "Idiot Son of an A------).

(Looking into emigrating. . . )

your funny. you libs think you dont have any blood on your hands. hell remember vietnam? somilia? you people think your so high and #ing mighty that you dont need god or that you are god in carnate. no blood on you hands, HA!



liberalism = weakness

Come on ladies...its a faked video.
Do you really believe that these guys would stand around chanting "Allah Ahkbar" over and over again like the thuggee charactiture's from 'Indiana Jones Temple of Doom' as they hack away? Perhaps its more like the 'The Mummy' movie with his followers walking around with outstretched hands..."Allah Ahkbar, Allah Ahkbar"...oh and those characters were brown people too...(coincidance???) damn dirty, brown-skinned, pagan, sinning, godless bastards...sitting on all of that DELICIOUS oil!
Y
U
M

Crude oil wets my appetite for heathens and bad special effects...

It looks like a truly amatuerish production, to me kiddies, much like the corpse pictures of Saddam's sons...much like this whole "war".

The empire never ended.


you are absolutely free

I realize that this is going to go in one ear and out the other, but I'm going to say it anyways. Don't you realize that all of the hate being spewed against the Iraqis by outraged Americans, is what makes the theory that this murder was staged by our government all the more plausible. How quickly did you all forget about the abuses of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American soldiers after the video of Berg's death was released? How long did it take for you to forget that they are someone's husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters, just like us?

Reactions like, " What needs to be done now is for the US to line up 20 known AlQuaedaorhoweveryouspellit and cut their fingers and toes off one at a time and then after much pain cut their throats. Post in throughout the media and make sure they understand that if it happens to another US citizen then 20 more AlQuaedawhatevertheycallthemselves will die. This is what they understand. Drastic measures for desprate times. " and "I don't give a rat's a$$ if we let some military prisoners walk around with their schlongs hanging out. At this point, line em up and cut their # off and send it back to their parents. " are exactly the reaction that the government would be hoping for. It takes the disgust and anger that was being directed at them and redirects it onto the Iraqis, thereby saving the government's *ss.

Even if Berg was killed by computer savvy terrorists, there is no justification for such psychotic reactions. Yes, Berg's death was horrific...Yes, it was infuriating. That does not give us cause to respond in kind. We are supposed to be representative of how the world should be and how we should all relate to each other. We are not a bunch of homicidal apes who erupt into a blood thirsty frenzy when something like this happens.

Those of you who think we should torture and kill all Iraqi dissidents because of the acts of a few, are no better than al-Quaeda or a vigilante lynch mob. Your lives have no more value than anyone else in the world, no matter what your superiority complex tells you. How do you think you would feel about the things you have said if you were an average Iraqi civilian, caught in the middle of a violent war, just trying to keep your family alive from day to day? How would it feel to have your dick and balls cut off, just because you are a prisoner, whether you did anything wrong or not? To be left in excruciating pain, blood pouring down your legs, knowing that even if you survived you would be irreversibly disfigured? Sound like something you would want to have wished on you? Then what makes it ok to wish that fate on someone else?

I realize empathy is virtually nonexistant nowdays, but it would be nice if some of you at least gave it a shot.

Originally posted by TexasConspiracyNut
What needs to be done now is for the US to line up 20 known AlQuaedaorhoweveryouspellit and cut their fingers and toes off one at a time and then after much pain cut their throats. Post in throughout the media and make sure they understand that if it happens to another US citizen then 20 more AlQuaedawhatevertheycallthemselves will die. This is what they understand. Drastic measures for desprate times.

i must say that it is always nice to meet a true simpleton, because you must be one in order to suggest that.
Much as i hate to admit it, america rules the world effectively, and with george "arsewipe" bush in power; we all pray that his advisors are as smart as they are supposed to be. Howver, any kind of halfwitted, un thought through, Americanized, sweaty gun-nut response, would worsen the situation in a huge way.

QUOTE: Q The devil didn't make them do it, Allah didn't tell them to do it, there was no-one holding a gun to their heads. They decapitated this man because they are wicked, evil people. This is the choice they made. Feel free to collectively ignore the fact that they'd love to do this to all of us if you will, I cannot. END QUOTE

i assume you have a family; would you kill someone else to save your own family?
for these men, their religion IS their family. As you would die for their mother, father, and siblings, they would die for allah.

I do not believe that what they did was noble, i do not support it, hoowver, i do think that i understand their situation. They believe that by these acts, they are protecting their religion. This is effectively a holy war for them. They are protecting their family (religion) by any means possible.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Icatel]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Icatel]

From another forum but interesting question...
Washington Post video of Abu Ghraib abuses distorted... WHY?!
LATE BREAKING NEWS!

The Washington Post has put up some new video of the Abu Ghraib abuses, and there's something damn fishy about it. Go ahead and check it out, then come back and read on.

All done? Okay then, answer me this:

Have you EVER seen a video edited like that before? With the sides cropped off to give a narrow vertical band of image? The Post claims the video was "originally recorded sideways" and that the colors were tweaked because of "low lighting."

I think they're full of #. Look at the way that camera moves. Those shots are hand-held, and thus almost certainly not shot sideways. Ask any cameraman. Hell, ask anybody who's ever handled a video camera.

And as for tweaking the lighting... Why?! They didn't tweak the Nick Berg video, and that had some pretty #ty lighting. Newsweek tweaked O.J. Simpson once to make him darker, and look what that got them. What valid excuse could the Post possibly have to tamper with a historical document?!

It occurs to me that one reason the image may have been so severely cropped is because if the edges were visible, amateur video sleuths would be able to check the digital "fingerprints" and perhaps connect the camera that was used to film the Abu Ghraib abuses to the camera used to film Nick Berg's murder.

And tweaking the lighting would change the color of those familiar-looking walls, wouldn't it? It would change a lot of things, come to think of it. The granularity, the properties of the light. And of course, if this video is as cropped as it seems to be, that would explain the absence of the kind of time-code stamping seen in the Berg tape.

I'd love to see an un-manipulated version of this vid. But chances are I won't.

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