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WAR: Video Shows Beheading of American Civilian Nick Berg by Al Qaeda Group

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posted on May, 12 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by ab2tw
I would not equate torture with 911 only because I think that torture would be a prolonged pain type of situation.
You must not have ever had anything heavier than a pillow on your chest then because I would have to say not everybody in the fallen towers died immediately and in my opinion being crushed slowly would fall under torture...or torturous to say the least.

I'm not saying that certain elements in the government couldn't be capable of setting up this video to deflect critics but honestly sometimes people really spout off too much about the U.S. being evil...it's funny to me though that they're able to posts these opinions without disappearing or having their families unraped and safe.




posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Seth Bullock
These people were Al Queda not Iraqis. This would have happened with or without the war in Iraq.


Thats exactly what I was saying, Seth.
Bush should have gone after bin Laden and al-qaeda, rather than changing tack and charging into Iraq.


[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Pisky]



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Preest
You must not have ever had anything heavier than a pillow on your chest then because I would have to say not everybody in the fallen towers died immediately and in my opinion being crushed slowly would fall under torture...or torturous to say the least.


Yes, I can only imagine that it would be torturous.
I was just pointing out that torture is generally considered to be pain iniflicted on another personthat can be increased or decreased depending onthe torturer.

Just for example..what would be greater torture, Being crushed to death over the course of 1 minute, having your throat cut over the course of 1 second, or being raped and beaten every day for the course of 1 year?

In my mind there has to be a torturer who can increase or decrease the pain level on their whim in order for it to be considered torture.
911 was horic deaths but was more "torturous" for those who have to relive that pain every day of their lives.
IMHO



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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Death is not torture. 9/11 was torture no more than being the victim of a car accident and then dying is. Sure, it may have been painful, and it may not have been instant death, but it's not "torture". If I shoot you in the chest, then let you bleed to death, that's not torture, it's just cold blooded murder. Don't confuse the two.



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Pisky
Bush should have gone after bin Laden and al-qaeda, rather than changing tack and charging into Iraq.


By the way, just where is Bin-Laden these days??



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by ab2tw
By the way, just where is Bin-Laden these days??


It looks as if everyone in the Bush Adminsitration have forgotten him. This, of course, will leave him able to prepare his next attack without constantly looking over his shoulder.



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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Hizbollah Slams Beheading of American as Un-Islamic
BEIRUT (Reuters) - Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group condemned Wednesday the beheading of an American hostage by Iraqi militants as an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam.

au.news.yahoo.com...

Suddenly nothing makes sence any more



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by baked

Hizbollah Slams Beheading of American as Un-Islamic
BEIRUT (Reuters) - Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group condemned Wednesday the beheading of an American hostage by Iraqi militants as an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam.

au.news.yahoo.com...

Suddenly nothing makes sence any more


Uhmm...maybe they're afraid they'll be next?



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Satyr
Maybe it takes the fear of a murderous dictator to keep them in line. Maybe it's the only way, for them. Maybe we've just unleashed total chaos by removing Saddam, who may have been the threat they needed.


Let me preface by saying I'm for the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq.

I'm thinking that you might be right. What makes "them" (Arab nations) so barbarous? What makes them hate "us" (US, coalition countries) Is it the religion (they keep saying Praise Allah at the end of the video)? Is it frustration? Is it jealousy?

And...why is it that we don't hear from Arab nation leaders who are muslim? They are VERY quiet, no comment, no disapproval?



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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Jako,

Don't make assumptions.
I am an American of Arab descent. (Syrian)
I get searched at airports more often than average.
I am an atheist as well.
You sound angrier than I am.
And you are supposed to be the
compassionate one?

Um, WHY should "local Islamic leaders" express ANYTHING about what happened to this guy? Are all Muslims the exact same? If they don't condemn it does this mean they support it? What do you figure, that they think this is a good thing?


I don't know WHAT they think, thats why I'd like them to
say something. Is that hard to understand?

As far as my "ignorance" ( is that compassionate for stupid?). I will admit that I was ignorant of the fact that
so many people have no sense of self preservation, You, for example.

Islamic leaders, I've had a chance to meet some before,
and probably will again. My circumstances allow for that.

I didn't hear many apologies, but there were some.
My point about a newspaper letter, is to make it a more public forum. I don't think muslims are all the same, Some people might, and it would be a good thing for a muslim to prove they are varied in their opinions.

Your "High Horse" has wooden legs..



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 05:33 PM
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This would not have happened without the War in Iraq?

It's been happening for years. Daniel Pearl, Tourists in the Phillipines, many in Yugoslavia.

All done by Islamic extremist Pigs



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 06:38 PM
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Sorry a littlte late to reply but here is my opinion...

Sure what they did was horrible, disgusting.

But

All we did was make them naked and put underwear on their head
is not true.

Many unreleased photos have shown more



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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"The nation with the most arms should extend the most hands"
-some iowan quote

This has been a most interesting discussion, I read the first 9 pages or so before deciding to enter the fray. First off I'd like to say, the act in question here was in my opinion quite horrid, and it amazes me people have the stomach to do this stuff. I'm very sorry for the victim, and I hope he is not related to me (I am a berg.) Very sad event.
Now, my opinion on the matter:
It seems to me that a lot of people are quick to blame bush and the administration for what goes on. But as we live in a democracy, I find it hard to place blame so squarely on one person. I think that there is a lot of arrogance in the US these days, most likely because of its position as the dominant superpower. While it is true that there seem to be no nations that approach our might, this does not mean that we can pretend like we are the only nations in existence. When a nation gets so big and full of itself that it can both ignore and bully the rest of the world as it pleases, well, these are the signs of a nation in decline to me. We must remember that it is possible for other nations to catch up with us, and then we are going to want to be on good terms with them. It seems to me that many people in this country are very ignorant of the existance of other cultures, religions and ways of life. People that do not realize the significance of cultural differences. When in the US it is very easy to feel like death is the worse possible thing that can happen, and that this is a universal truth. In fact sociologists have found that there are very few universal truths, and while this beheading may seem to us to be way out of league with the acts which they claim it was a retribution, it is very possible that in their minds there acts were similar to ours. I make no claims as to my knowledge of middle-eastern culture, but I do realize that being raised differently leads to very different views of the world around you.
It seems to me that americans are increasingly at odds with the rest of the world. Even in places where americans are not despised (sp?) or hated, there are still many people who dislike american's attitude's towards others. These feelings of course are unfair generalizations, but regardless it is the image that counts. Americans are projecting an image of themselves as being self-centered and bossy. While this may not be a threat now, while we have the capability to ignore anyone who dares criticize, and stamp out those who take action, it could in the future become our downfall. Increasingly the world is becoming defragmented, with nations tying themselves together and cooperating. Although they may not always be doing the best of it, the fact that they are setting up such connections is important for their future, and ours as well. I advice that the U.S., and americans individually, put forth an effort to establish ties with other parts of the world.
To bring this back into context, and back on topic, I state the following:
If the U.S. had better international relationships, it may have been able to diffuse the situation in Iraq differently. Indeed it is true as many have stated, that Saddam was a bad leader, and a threat to his people. However, Iraq was a developed nation, not a land of savages. We did see Bagdhad before the bombing on TV right? I'd say that the situation currently hardly seems to be an improvement. Many, in fact I'd say most, of the countries that neighbour Iraq were not big fans of Saddam. If we had better relationships with these countries, we might have been able to assist them in an incursion into Iraq. That way the people could have been dealt with by others more familar with their ways, while American military might (and values for those of you who are fans), could back up the situation and ensure success. This is only an example of how better international relationships on all levels might have helped.
Another comment I had, is that many people here have condemned various groups for their lack of outrage, including liberals and the muslim community. I'd like to point out that the main bulk of the muslim community is not here. In fact, they are quite a ways away, and don't speak english. So really, it does not surprise me that you don't hear anything out of them. I ask how many of the people who expressed such opinions have approached their muslims friends and asked their opinions on the matter. I do not assume that you haven't, however I surely hope you don't refer to your friends as subhuman slime, etc...
As for the liberals, well, I'd have to point out that anyone so loudly opposed to liberals once again probably has little personal contact with them. Also, its only been a few days, just because you hear your own outrage immediately, doesn't mean all outrage is instantly transmitted to your ears. Although I prefer not to label myself, I do know several liberal types who were quite horrified by the attacks in Fallujah. However, often the sentiment there is something like "oh sh*t, that is horrible. How could WE let our people be put in such a situation." and often gets interpreted to "bush bad, bush get us in mess, not terrorists fault." I do not believe this is what was meant, however, for the liberals, the feeling is that they have more control over the actions of bush than that of Al Qaeda, and therefore more attention should be paid to them. For many who are more supportive of war and its outcomes however, there is more of a feeling that they have the power to affect not only the leadership's actions, but also the actions of those who perpetrate the crimes. It is a matter of who each camp feels is more capable of preventing future attacks.
This is only how I see things, and I honestly mean no harm to those who feel otherwise.
g'day to all, and hopefully there will not be so many days which warrant discussions like this one, eh?



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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why dont we just get out of there and nuke the bastards?
besides, what's the the use of helping those iraqis?



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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while were at it we nuke the world!!!

"THEY ALL HAYE US ANYHOW!!! LETS JUST DROP THE BIG ONE NOW!!!!!!"



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by sosuemetoo
I'm thinking that you might be right. What makes "them" (Arab nations) so barbarous? What makes them hate "us" (US, coalition countries) Is it the religion (they keep saying Praise Allah at the end of the video)? Is it frustration? Is it jealousy?

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that we've used them, then turned our back on them when they were no longer useful, could it? Or that we think we can just march in and tell them what they can and can't do? Or that we fund/supply their enemies? Nah...couldn't be. I'm sure they're just jealous of our DVD players.



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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"The grisly execution of Nick Berg is the latest nightmarish vision brought to the world by US imperialism's criminal and barbaric invasion of Iraq. Every pint of blood spilled in that tortured country--Iraqi, American, British, Japanese, Polish and every other government dragooned into this crime--flows directly or indirectly from the White House. Every manifestation of harm to an American prisoner anywhere is the direct byproduct of George Bush's spitting on the Geneva Convention and the torture of Iraqis and others that has resulted from that contempt. Bush was specifically warned he was putting Americans in danger all over the world by ordering his forces to torture prisoners from Afghanistan to Iraq to Guantanamo Bay."



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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This might have been brought up already but Nick Berg is wearing orange overalls, are these not the same kind the Americans are using for there detainees in Cuba and else where? just a thought, and why do the Iraqis wear masks?



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by Sauron
why do the Iraqis wear masks?


Good question maybe they have masks cos actually the "prisoners" arent really prisoners at all they could be US troops who knows.

[Edited on 12-5-2004 by drunk]



posted on May, 12 2004 @ 10:47 PM
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Death Of Nick Berg:
Bush-Cheney-Pentagon PsyOp?

I just found this pice over on Rense

Who's responsible for dumping Nick Berg, an unarmed American Jew, wearing an orange jumpsuit (with a Star of David scrawled on his back)in the middle of hostile Arab territory? rense.com...

and I had ment the Iraqi fighters with masks not the prisoners with hoods over there heads



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