Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (political fraud)

Originally posted by GLDNGUN
And he added that he's NOT accusing anyone here of being a racist or a hypocrite, so here's an idea! How about discussing the document in question?

I know you can do it!

Ok, I think I can finally discuss the document.

I don't believe it's real. It might be a real document of something pertaining to Obama, but it's not his original birth cert.

Someone could have made a lot of money with that doc, if it was real. I really believe the repubs, Bush/Cheney, or McCain's people probably did a very thorough investigation into these possibilities.

Can you imagine if they didn't?

Everything brought up in this thread is probably very old news to them, they've been down this road a number of times a long time ago.

Alan Keyes, one of the main people who believes Obama's BC is fake.

It's also funny that birthers on here use Alan Keyes as some kind of justification.

As one person said, he's not racist, because he's an African-American.

No, he's worse then that.

You see, Alan Keyes and Obama fought for the United States senate election of Illinois in 2004. Obama was the democratic candidate, while Keyes was the Republican.

As everyone knows, Obama won.

So, yes, Keyes is not racist. He's just a sore loser who lost the election to Obama, and so this is his way to "get back" at Obama!

Originally posted by Mikey84

Originally posted by tonygal
Regarding 1963 or 1964 and the "Republic" issue...think of it this way. Who is writing the history?

So once Kenya declared their independence in 1963, and wrote their Constitution declaring themselves a Republic, they probably started using the term right away on all their documents. But the British didn't recognize it until a year later after Kenya had a functioning government. And my guess is there's more history written from the British perspective than from the Kenyan perspective, so consider the source.

No, during December 1963 – December 1964 the official country name was the Dominion of Kenya. The Republic was not established until December 12 1964 and the official title was also not established until then. All dates on this document which states “Republic of Kenya” are before the date it even became a republic.

It took a year of elections before they decided what type of government it was going to be.

Mikey

Mikey - not quite. Read the 1963 Constitution here, the very first Chapter says they are the Republic of Kenya.

www.kenya-information-guide.com...

It took them a year to campaign and have elections. But they already knew what *type* of government they would be.

My guess is they started using "Republic" right away out of national pride, plus to spite the British who tried to impose the Dominion title until the elections were over. If you see the Dominion of Kenya written somewhere, it is most likely from the British perspective.

reply to post by tonygal


I understand what you are saying, and I agree. But if the country is independent then what does it matter what label the British gave them?

The country was independent in 1963 when the constitution was written. It is just like a mother still calls her son her baby, even though he is full grown and she has no control over him anymore.

If the British said they were a Dominion it doesn't hold any significance other than the fact that the British didn't want to let go and still trying to rule them.

Their constitution was written in 1963 and declared a Republic as the style of government so I can't really understand why they would put "Dominion" instead of "Republic" on all their official documents when they were going to be a republic when they were able to hold their official elections.

reply to post by its bologna

Hawaii never verified Obama's short form BC if Kenya does it will matter.
Things dont add up at least the Kenya one has seal and is signed has numbers , hospital.



[edit on 2-8-2009 by googolplex]

Originally posted by tonygal

Mikey - not quite. Read the 1963 Constitution here, the very first Chapter says they are the Republic of Kenya.

www.kenya-information-guide.com...

It took them a year to campaign and have elections. But they already knew what *type* of government they would be.

My guess is they started using "Republic" right away out of national pride, plus to spite the British who tried to impose the Dominion title until the elections were over. If you see the Dominion of Kenya written somewhere, it is most likely from the British perspective.

Cheers for that,

That makes sense, just wasn’t sure. It’s like how some Euro coins have the date 1999 on them (when they were minted), even though the Euro coins didn’t come out until 2002 (simply because they knew it was coming and that’s when it was printed).

So that does make sense then, I just wasn’t sure if they already had established that they were going to be a Republic.

Look I’m hoping this Kenyan Birth Cert is real, we’ll just have to wait and see.

Mikey


[edit on 2/8/2009 by Mikey84]

Au contraire, Googol...

www.time.com...

Hawaii verified his birth certificate again.

The key word here is AGAIN. That means they verified it more then once.

reply to post by Mikey84


Honestly the only hope we have of that, is for somebody to fly to Kenya and look up the entry in the Birth Registry.

Even if they do declare this one real, which I don't know if it is or not, the only way to be for certain is for somebody in Kenya or to go to Kenya and look in the Birth Registry of the page that is written, and that is if the Kenyan government doesn't white wash it.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


yep, you got it. In simple terms, the "Dominion" period of 1963-1964 was written into history by the British. The Kenyans probably never used it on any official documents, because they already declared themselves an independent Republic in 1963.

It only matters here because all these people that think Kenya wasn't a Republic until December 1964 are reading the British version of history, which probably doesn't apply to how Kenya handled their internal documents.

What's This?

A different Kenyan BC???

[edit on 2-8-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Mikey84

 

Honestly the only hope we have of that, is for somebody to fly to Kenya and look up the entry in the Birth Registry.

Even if they do declare this one real, which I don't know if it is or not, the only way to be for certain is for somebody in Kenya or to go to Kenya and look in the Birth Registry of the page that is written, and that is if the Kenyan government doesn't white wash it.

Well its public record so should be easy to do.... if we have someone in Kenya... does ATS not have a single member in Kenya to do it?

Or, is it not possible to Order online, I ordered my Mum’s birth cert from the United Kingdom online for about $20 and it was sent to me in 7 days (she didn’t even know, lol – I needed it to get a British Passport).

Mikey

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


That was a hoax that went around recently. It's a pretty obvious one due to the fact the text doesn't go into the page creases and wrinkles.

Ruh roh, Raggy!

Looks like that blows a hole in the birthers theory that Obama was born in Kenya.

You know, I find it hard to think that anyone is taking this document as anything other than a forgery. Let's put on our thinking caps here. The document was signed in 1964 (an obvious attempt to make a forged document seem more "authentic"). That would mean the document was obtained from a person who is related to the president. Who would that be?

His father is dead. So that leaves his grandmother. Why would she have that? Why would she wait until 1964 to get a copy. Why would she need a copy? He never lived in Kenya. She didn't know in 1964 he would become the president. And even more so, why would she give some anonymous person the original copy of Obama's BC? It doesn't pass the logic test.

deleted post, lol

[edit on 2/8/2009 by Mikey84]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33



That last one was proven to be fake several pages back. The watermark is dutch/afrikaans and says something to the effect of "this is not real."

reply to post by AshleyD


Who's to say the other one that's the focal point of this thread is not a hoax, then?

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

That was a hoax that went around recently. It's a pretty obvious one due to the fact the text doesn't go into the page creases and wrinkles.

And that is exactly my point.

reply to post by tonygal


Your looking at a copy of there current constitution not the one drawn up in 1963.The 1963 version was a palimantary constition setting up a prime mister similar to england go figure. In december 1964 they became a republic modeled off the United States setting up a presidency. There was no kenyan president untill dec 1964!

Kenya's Independence Constitution lasted only a few months in its original form: Kenya's ruling elite, who has taken over from the departing colonial authorities, quickly dismantled the Independence Constitution and declared Kenya a Republic (on 12 December 1964), with Jomo Kenyatta assuming absolute powers. The position of Prime Minister, which had facilitated power-sharing, had been scrapped and so had the Regional Assemblies that had been intended to share power with the two Houses of Parliament, namely, the Senate and the House of Representatives.

So again i will say kenya did not refer to itself as a republic untill the government changed! This makes this document a fake.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Au contraire, Googol...

www.time.com...

Hawaii verified his birth certificate again.

The key word here is AGAIN. That means they verified it more then once.

From my understanding what she said did not mean squat, and was double talk.
They have a copy stamped 2007, that was verified not to of been requested until 2008 by Obama's people.