Organic has no health benefits

reply to post by zorgon

I agree... pesticides are bad news... and eventually the bugs will build immunity so they will be useless anyway..

Yeah that's why I was bit ruffled, someone else was arguing about pyrethrum with me and because they use it on "organic" foods... but the stuff degrades fast... we switched from it from DDT because it last longer and it's an environmental nightmare and imho so is everything else they are using. Pyrethrum is the only insecticide that bugs have never for whatever reason become immune to and it seems they never will... then you have the water table amphibians soil lock down uv degradation the way it acts on the body... etc etc...

Organic, non organic... yeah term can be very confusing, in a nut shell one workd and doesn't have long term consequences on the body and the other stuff really stinks and creates immune bugs anyway...

so knowing all that, my choice is clear which I'd rather eat...

But fully do understand your point that most people don't actually "Get" what's going on, and what the real story is

No one answered Di-hydrogen Oxide, Citric Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Fructose, Sucrose, Alpha-Linolenic-Acid, Asparagine, D-Categin, Isoqurctrin, Hyperoside, Ferulic-Acid, Farnesene, Neoxathin, Phosphatidyl-Choline, Reynoutrin, Sinapic-Acid, Caffeic-Acid, Chlorogenic-Acid, P-Hydroxy-Benzoic-Acid, P-Coumaric-Acid, Avicularin, Lutein, Quercitin, Rutin, Ursolic-Acid, Protocatechuic-Acid, and Silver. How about you? Care to take a stab at it? Which of those are good for you and which are poison

lol your a funny guy...

My biggest complaint would be the Di-Hydrogen Oxide particularly it's adverse effect on cats and the potential damage over time to mountains and cars...

Unless i'm overlooking something because i'm tired i'd eat them all... and they all would be highly toxic if used wrongly or in exceptional dosage as well

cute



I get the point "what's a chemical? how many people even know? " It's a hella lot more complicated than Organic vs inorganic...

MY only stand on the subject comes down to the Organophosphates in use and their long term effects. And the methods used in organic produce vs inorganic and what's really going on.

Fine so how many has that killed so far? Any statistics? What about all the car exhaust fumes and oil products leaching into the soil? Ever see the grime from roads near farms on plants? Need solvent to get that off.

Given agreed... disgusting, and for the record it's way over due that we replace the methods by which cars operate entirely and it would be worth every single penny.


My opposition to foods that come equipped with the wrong pesticides... I'll spare you the whole frog amphibian bird and fish shpiel.. of links...

but throw these two in...

link

and

link 2

To quote from Link 2

More alarming, studies in animals now show that even a single, low-level exposure to certain organophosphates, during particular times of early brain development, can cause permanent changes in brain chemistry as well as changes in behavior, like hyperactivity. Chlorpyrifos (the chemical in the insecticide Dursban), for example, decreases the synthesis of DNA in the developing brain, leading to drops in the number of brain cells. If these findings pertain to humans, it may mean that early childhood exposures to chlorpyrifos can lead to lasting effects on learning, attention, and behavior -- just as were seen with another environmental neurotoxin, lead.

I do agree with you...

We are living better, given a choice, eat the foods that have had pesticides used on them when the reality is you can't get anything without some nasty chemicals in it period and take your chances with the right diet and the health effects outweighing the cumulative toxins... done right your going to be FAR better off than not eating apples and oranges per say


I genuinely think though that what i'm talking about here is a major contributor to the dumbing down process, add memory loss etc, that i see as... a Plague around me, like people are getting less capable mentally by the day... and I seek to eliminate everything I can and reduce volumes entirely... living in a major city until a month ago I had to do live on an extremely serious regimen to feel okay... and I have since moved away

(obviously pesticides was one small part) pollution and poor water far worse...

It's each... a small battle in a big picture to clean things up...

with that said, i'm allot happier overall with Organic foods treatment than... most produce and yeah, some could find and point out and surely exist examples of some pretty toxic Organic produce that manages to get out... like a harvest truck that leaked transmission fluid perhaps on your orange trees roots or what have you

yeah... NO Guarantees because it says Organic..

I just feel the need to eliminate as much as humanly possible... I've talked about TOXIC Overload allot in here

I think we have passed a breaking point in overall chemical consumption, between prescription meds, pollutants, pesticides, artificial materials the body is not accustomed too, bad eating habits microwaves...

all debatable by point...

My point however is...

I'm frightened by what I'm seeing I think people are having reactions perhaps too... the combination's and interactions of so many things in trace amounts entering their body's that it is... impossible to figure out exactly what is happening...

Fatigues, mood disorders... metal illness, just plain becoming stupid lol

I know the more seriously I take keeping myself pure, the better I feel, the better I function and I use organic produce as part of my personal regimen now whenever I can...


But with that said 100% agreement your 10x better off eating healthy in terms of detoxifying the mess... be the food Organic or not...

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
lol your a funny guy...

Well I did give a clue said it was Delicious

Chemical constituants of a natural Delicious Apple, and its about 87% di-hydrogen oxide

reply to post by zorgon


Ah all within an apple... lol

I had realized allot of them were in apples but overlooked the big picture when I saw the very first item on your list was Water lol

Nice,

But it really does illustrate the point that we are blissfully unaware what we are doing to ourselves and there is no way if I didn't at a glance recognize the picture of the Apple How can even the best among us can have a clue as to what interactions we are creating within our bodies in this toxic soup we are slowly starting to drown in...


You make an interesting point... That we are currently living better than ever before (at least longer)

Any trip through an old cemetery will prove that point too...

Yeah...

I'd have to agree, perhaps to bash inorganic foods is a bit extreme... point taken.

The personal quest for me isn't avoiding scurvy but rather life extension as a goal...

I will say though

I still have my alarm bells in my head running, I see something here in regards to health I find disconcerting, everything from lowered sperm production to fatigue, concentration...

I can't help but think it is quite possible we are building for a big fall, what fatigues us today will become a big drop again back to those 1700's levels in regards to life expectancy via pollution, chemicals, pesticides... an overall convergence of toxins.... The Frogs and Birds as I see it are our literal canaries in this coal mine...

No doom sayer here...

But i'm being very cautious... in regards to my personal health... not an "I visit ats" thing... just many little things, from.... a virulent flu imho opinion created most likely from... overpopulation bad methods of mixing livestock perhaps... to Mrsa from too much antibiotic use, to perhaps... kids with ADD a very likely link to pesticides in use... maybe, maybe something else...

But more than any one factor, I see allot of apathy allot of fatigue allot of mental illness.... some in here would say this is a "conspiracy" but I don't think so... I know How I feel with out filtering my water and doing my sauna etc, etc... and staying as clean as possible vs just eating and drinking the water without precaution and consuming typical offered foods etc...

And...

Your right... we are living longer than ever, but with allot of cancer and allot of damaged goods walking around

And i'm not so sure, we aren't close to the tip of an iceberg here a pinnacle that we could for a time fall from...

Hard to express what i'm trying to say... I just think we are precariously close to having the "bit too much" in our systems... That some major changes are needed...

Well it is only smart to pay attention to what you eat and where it comes from... and you I can see know this...

Personally what is more important is we should have a nutritionist to make a plan for our selves as each person has different needs. If the body is healthy it can and will eliminate toxins and fight of all disease.

Disease occurs when we are missing something... and once that happens the toxins can attack. Sure there are some like mercury that are accumulative,,, but in general we can do this.

Unfortunately nutritionists are not popular with doctors and pharmaceutical companies. A healthy body does not need drugs or medical aide.

The thing is theoretically if you knew exactly what your body needed you could mix up chemical and drink them and be perfectly healthy. May not taste so great but since we are a chemical processor the purer the chemical the faster it goes to where its needed with no waste

A piece of toast... the brown stuff is burnt starch... it is dextrin at this stage so eating toast is better than just eating the bread... dextrin is converted to dextrose, the sugar your blood uses

Well you can go out and get candy... Dextrose squares with a little lemon are sold all over Europe... instant energy Here in the US on halloween they give out those little rolls of round candy... Those are dextrose... great to keep on hand for emergency power boosts

The point is 99% of people have no idea and have no one to help them. Once in a while you ge the message out in a forum, but even here most would rather argue and bash then figure out reality

Aspirin is an organic drug... it is the distilled chemical from willow bark, a cure that comes from the old witches in the Medieval forest

reply to post by BigfootNZ


you bring up a point about price. I heard a guest on Jon Stewart that said in the 50s, people used to spend about 18% of their budget on food. Now it is something like 9%.

I believe that Americans are so obsessed with price that it has driven us to illness. We want cheap lead tainted toys from China. Instead of buying ONE homemade quality toy from the US.

Instead of buying less food at a higher quality, we now want an entire large plate of food from a restaurant for 5 bucks. People are worried about deals, not health.

So how much is being sacrificed to bring you a plate of food fro 5bucks? And you can't even eat it all.

But if you eat higher quantity foods, you tend to eat less. You have less cravings, and you get more nutrional benefits.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by alienesque

 

Organic has no health benefits

Look, everything that is grown, is organic. The word itself is taken from 'Organism'. But go to the grocery story, find something with a green label that is either 'organic' or 'natural' and the price is jacked up through the roof.

It's a trendy thing to buy organic. It looks good and if you are silly enough to let it make you think you are eating better, it works too.

It's a gimmick to sell ordinary food at higher prices to those that have more money than common sense.

...

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... not at all.

Organic food is priced higher because the crop yields a lower amount of ready for consumers products than crops that have been sprayed beyond recognition with chemicals.

The farmer still has to survive you know... so do a simple math problem and calculate:

Both farmers need 100 currency to pay bills and for seeds for next season

Farmer 1 sprays his crop and gets 50 apples out of it.

Farmer 2 doens't want to spray his crop and end up with 25 apples.

Since both need the 100 currency to survive farmer 1 can sell his apples for 2 currency each, but farmer 2 has to sell his at 4 currency each.

Add to that, that farmer 1 is probably part of some great organisation of food producers who in return get lower prices on transportation, guarantee that the large chains of stores will buy a certain amount, if not all of his crops.
In the meantime farmer 2 needs to approach specialty shops or the odd supermarket in order to hand off his "expensive" crop.

Now... dealing with that completely bogus, incompetent and useless report. The real question has never been wether you get more out of eating organic food. It's been about wether you want to fill your body with crops that have either been genetically manipulated or sprayed with different kind of pestisides.
So is your long term health worth spending 2 more currency, or are you happy slowly poisoning your body so you can afford your extremely important laptop / PS3 / very fast, very polluting car / your house with 10 bedrooms / your fashion clothes / your expensive watch / your "whatever useless junk materialistic item you can name"???

I can understand why families with low income might frown upon organic foods, simply for the reason that they can't afford it. But don't blame the people making the food. Blame the politicians who are reluctant to increase subsiditation of organic foods so they can compete with sprayed foods.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't support and improve the conditions for the farmers willing to provide communities with healthy, non toxic food. Again... never make this a question wether you gain more from organic foods... make it a question wether you want to consume sprayed foods, or make your children consume them.

I admit, I don't buy 100% organic, but that's simply because my economy won't allow me to do so. If the organic food could reach a price level similar to the sprayed foods, I would most definately buy organic all the way.

If you don't believe me, try growing some vegetables in your own garden. And then pay real good attention to the taste of the crop yield...
It simply does taste a lot better.



[edit on 2/8/09 by flice]