Did you know? Obama’s half sister, born in Indonesia, has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth

Originally posted by Office 4256
After seeing thread after thread on this, I've formulated a new standard to apply to this entire debate. When the "Birthers" come with documentary proof (not stories, but actual documentation from official sources) that Obama was born anywhere outside of US territory, I'll start paying attention. Until then, I'll join the other 93% of Americans who shake their heads and wonder why you have nothing better to occupy your time.
You continue to clamor that Obama must prove his place of birth, but you have it all wrong. The Federal Elections Commission is satisfied that he is a "natural-born" citizen. Actually folks, that's all that counts. YOU now have to prove he isn't. Hop to it!!

Exactly!!... Birthers, please do your homework and produce a COLB, long form, short form, napkin form, or newspaper birth announcement from Kenya and then maybe the other 93% of us will pay attention...

reply to post by gemstone


And therein lies the problem. Everything documentation wise is under lock and key. So how do you propose anyone find anything about him when he has done such an excellent job of making sure everything is sealed?

All we have to go on is a COLB that may or may not have been altered and may or may not be his and a birth announcement that doesn't actually say anything. We have birth announcements in my local paper frequently about children who don't live anywhere near here simply because their parents were originally from here and wanted to put in an announcement in their hometown.

I can't say with any authority what the truth is about where Obama was born. But the lengths to which he has gone to keep anyone from learning anything about him are just absolutely ridiculous if he has nothing to hide. Innocent people don't fight to keep the truth hidden. Had he not done everything he can to get cases dismissed for no standing, after asking for extensions by the way, and everything he can to make sure everything about him is sealed, I'd be less inclined to think there might be something he's hiding. As it stands though, he sure is doing an excellent job of making himself look guilty of something.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by gemstone

 

And therein lies the problem. Everything documentation wise is under lock and key. So how do you propose anyone find anything about him when he has done such an excellent job of making sure everything is sealed?

If only you could get rid of that pesky privacy thing... Even though, Obama is president, he is STILL a citizen and entitled to the same rights and protections of privacy as the rest of us. You can have all the suspicions that you want, but suspecting something doesn't make it true and I hope he makes it as difficult as hell to get the information you're looking for because I want it to be that difficult if it was someone trying to dig into MY life.

Originally posted by debunky
reply to post by LookingAtTheSky

 

*sigh*
frivolous lawsuits that is, or else at least one of them would have made it to ... yknow court.

You see that is where all of you people just don't get it! They are not "frivolous". You all say that because you don't want to know the truth. If they "the ptb" were not so dam corrupt, they would hear the case. But you just keep saying duh OK!

he would never lie to me. Duh, um, duh

reply to post by grahag


So what I'm getting from your post is that if you were in Obama's place and were President, and there were people who had doubts about your citizenship, you would refuse to put the matter to rest once and for all? You would file for extensions in court cases and ask for them to be dismissed on lack of standing rather than let one case go through the trial process and prove that the claims were unfounded, thereby ending all of the questioning? You would do everything possible to prevent anyone from learning anything about you? You would show every sign of being guilty of something rather than prove your innocence? Please tell me I've misunderstood you.

If I were in Obama's place, I would have probably asked for a dismissal the first time or two someone tried to take me to court. But if there were still cases being filed I'd let it get in front of a judge, whip out that one little piece of paper that only I have access to, show it to the judge and thereafter be able to tell people to shove it when the judge decided the case in my favor. If I were in Obama's place and knew people thought I had gone to college and received aid for foreign students, I'd whip out those college records, block out any personal information that was irrelevant, and prove them wrong.

It's not a matter of trying to take away Obama's right to privacy, it's ensuring that the man in charge of our country should be in that position. If he has nothing to hide, and he shouldn't if he was born in Hawaii as he claims, then there is no logical reason whatsoever for him to not have allowed a court case to get in front of a judge and then showed that judge irrefutable proof that his claims are true. I don't want him to show me his records, I want him to show a judge and let it be decided on once and for all. If he's been telling the truth, he has nothing to hide and nothing to lose by showing a judge and getting a case decision in his favor.

As I said before, I can't say with any authority one way or the other what the truth is about his place of birth. My only interest in it is wanting the laws of our country followed, including those that dictate who can and who cannot be president. If he's eligible, great, settle it for heavens sake and put it all to rest for good. If not, then he needs to man up and admit it. As much as I dislike the man's policies, if he were to prove to a judge that he was indeed born in Hawaii and that claims otherwise are unfounded you'd never hear another word from me otherwise. I'd be right there with you and citing the court case to anyone who still questioned it.

Orly really has ended the discussion. This is the person out in front of the birther movement...

www.indecisionforever.com...

reply to post by Jenna


The burden of proof isn't on Obama, it's on the small right-wing fringe who are making the rediculous claims that its fake, he's not going to appease them because he isn't obligated to, he's showed his COLB to the proper athourities and that's that. Just like ever other president has, but for some reason when Obama is in office it's not good enough.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Are you that gullible? Do you really think that this is just all 100% false? Have you ever heard of the saying "there is always a little truth to every rumor". These findings Keep building and building every day because the people with any sense have to stop and ask themselves, "hey I am getting some bad vibes here" and they start to look into it further. I would bet my paycheck that you know! in your heart and sole you know. But desperately fight to hold on. Doing everything you can to convince yourself, and who ever else you can, to drop the subject or just ignore everything and anything that is put forth. It makes absolutely no difference how damming the evidence or facts become!
Very very sad. I feel sorry for you Southern, I really do.


[edit on 29/7/09 by xyankee]

reply to post by Jenna


What is really interesting to me is how when its Sarah Palin, or any other conservative, the democrats and liberals say "She put herself in that position, she was in the media spotlight, her and her families privacy was forfeit when she became a candidate"

Interesting now they are saying how much Obama has his right to privacy......wait wait.........REALLY?! COME ON! Whats with the double standard?

Hes the POTUS, the American people have every right to know EVERYTHING about his background, and every skeleton in his closet, the man IS after all running the country.

Reminds me, I dont remember them worrying about any of the Bush family privacy when he was in office? Im not a Bush supporter, but that doesnt make my statement any less relevant.

STOP THE HYPOCRISY!

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by grahag

 

So what I'm getting from your post is that if you were in Obama's place and were President, and there were people who had doubts about your citizenship, you would refuse to put the matter to rest once and for all? You would file for extensions in court cases and ask for them to be dismissed on lack of standing rather than let one case go through the trial process and prove that the claims were unfounded, thereby ending all of the questioning? You would do everything possible to prevent anyone from learning anything about you? You would show every sign of being guilty of something rather than prove your innocence? Please tell me I've misunderstood you.

If I were in Obama's place, I would have probably asked for a dismissal the first time or two someone tried to take me to court. But if there were still cases being filed I'd let it get in front of a judge, whip out that one little piece of paper that only I have access to, show it to the judge and thereafter be able to tell people to shove it when the judge decided the case in my favor. If I were in Obama's place and knew people thought I had gone to college and received aid for foreign students, I'd whip out those college records, block out any personal information that was irrelevant, and prove them wrong.

It's not a matter of trying to take away Obama's right to privacy, it's ensuring that the man in charge of our country should be in that position. If he has nothing to hide, and he shouldn't if he was born in Hawaii as he claims, then there is no logical reason whatsoever for him to not have allowed a court case to get in front of a judge and then showed that judge irrefutable proof that his claims are true. I don't want him to show me his records, I want him to show a judge and let it be decided on once and for all. If he's been telling the truth, he has nothing to hide and nothing to lose by showing a judge and getting a case decision in his favor.

As I said before, I can't say with any authority one way or the other what the truth is about his place of birth. My only interest in it is wanting the laws of our country followed, including those that dictate who can and who cannot be president. If he's eligible, great, settle it for heavens sake and put it all to rest for good. If not, then he needs to man up and admit it. As much as I dislike the man's policies, if he were to prove to a judge that he was indeed born in Hawaii and that claims otherwise are unfounded you'd never hear another word from me otherwise. I'd be right there with you and citing the court case to anyone who still questioned it.

You have understood me correctly. The fact that he was made president is good enough proof for me that he deserves to be there. He went through the most rigorous standards of natural born citizenship that exists; the republican party and their handlers.

According to the powers that be, Obama is a natural born citizen. If you don't want to accept that, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's not going to change and fighting the tide only makes the birthers look more silly. I'm not telling you NOT to fight them, because that's not my place and hey, it's a free country, but I can definitely point out how silly you all look when you do it.

Finally, at what point does denying something make you look suspicious? I could have a heyday with that if I even get a single confirmation of someone thinking that. Expect a LOT of accusations. If you're okay with having to show proof of citizenship whenever someone questions whether you belong here, please raise your hand. I'm old enough to remember international travel in the time of the wall separating east and west Germany. You'd probably think twice about your requirement of proof if you've ever been asked for your papers for no reason...

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Jenna

 

His COLB is very suspect as anyone at the time could order one.
His own relatives have said he was born in Africa. Why would they lie?

Something stinks

Can any of you source this? His relatives have never said he was born in Africa. This thing about Hawaii is a nice thing to just say over and over but how come none of you can back any of this up with any thing?

Even if Obama forged his BC, he at least had something to show. What do birther's have aside from some crazy people on the periphery of intelligent thought?

Prove he was born anywhere but Hawaii.

Explain why McCain did not use this to win the election. Why did Hillary keep her mouth shut when she could have made her huge campaign investments payoff?

I have asked both of these questions over and over.

So far...no proof, no evidence, just Hannity style talking points.

Do any of you actually believe what you are saying? If so, then you should have no problem with the above, starting with the request for evidence that he was born ANYWHERE but Hawaii.

reply to post by xyankee


What evidence, What facts?

The only thing i've seen is accusations by the fringe part of the right that have no evidence to back up their accusations.

Originally posted by Uniceft17The only thing i've seen is accusations by the fringe part of the right that have no evidence to back up their accusations.

Do you realize what you've just said? Were you aware that all we are asking for IS the actual evidence itself?

It doesn't matter what kind of circumstantial crap you can come up with that points to anything about a public representative, they should be REQUIRED to provide DIRECT EVIDENCE AND PROOF themselves, just like any other citizen.

In fact, all politicans and public reps should be required to provide much more in my opinion. They should also be followed by cameras all day and night like a reality tv show.

There is no other way to keep these criminals and thieves honest.

reply to post by Uniceft17


This is truly one of the most ridiculous responses I've ever seen, but it fully encapsulates the thinking process of most of the world's people who are locked into this ridiculous notion of left and right equals good and bad political paradigm.

You are actually asking for proof before requesting that a public representative should FOLLOW THE GODD*MN LAW.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by Riposte]

reply to post by Riposte


I'll say what i've already said on this thread.

The burden of proof isn't on Obama, it's on the small right-wing fringe who are making the rediculous claims that its fake, he's not going to appease them because he isn't obligated to, he's showed his COLB to the proper athourities and that's that. Just like ever other president has, but for some reason when Obama is in office it's not good enough.

According to the FEC he's eligible and that's all that really matters as fars as the law is concerned.

If you don't like the man then vote him out next election.

And I am not locked into any left and right pardigm, if you look at my posts in other threads you will no that i'm not a big fan of Obama or the democrats or republicans for that matter. Just because I dissagree with the whole so called 'birther' movement doesn't make me for one party or the other, your logic is flawed if you think that way.


[edit on 7/29/2009 by Uniceft17]

[edit on 7/29/2009 by Uniceft17]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any countries headed by foreign-born leaders?

[edit on 7/28/2009 by nasdack24k]


Amrika.

I B

reply to post by I_B_Confused


Hitler wasn't born in Germany.
Stalin wasn't born in Russia.

[edit on 7/29/2009 by bl4ke360]

Did you know this such crap ? Its because hes black and what people are reaaly saying with this he wasnt born here is code hes not white !!

reply to post by Gobucks


You newcomers tend to always think the reason for the birth certificate issue is because Obama is black, and you're suggesting that we're all racists.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
The burden of proof isn't on Obama, it's on the small right-wing fringe who are making the rediculous claims that its fake, he's not going to appease them because he isn't obligated to, he's showed his COLB to the proper athourities and that's that. Just like ever other president has, but for some reason when Obama is in office it's not good enough.

Have you ever actually seen a court case? Yes, the person who files the lawsuit has to prove their case, but the respondent also has to prove that case wrong. Thus the reason people who get taken to court have a lawyer for their defense. They don't just go in and sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the plaintiff to state their case and then do nothing. They make their own case to prove themselves innocent.

_________________

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

What is really interesting to me is how when its Sarah Palin, or any other conservative, the democrats and liberals say "She put herself in that position, she was in the media spotlight, her and her families privacy was forfeit when she became a candidate"

It is rather interesting how that works isn't it? Palin and her children could be attacked in the media every day and it was her fault for being in the position she was in. When it's Obama then he has a right to privacy and nobody better say nothing bad about him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.