Pope attacks art vandalising Bible

reply to post by tristar


The so caled expression of art, was opened to abuse frrom the start.

Did she really expect, for people who was viisiting and participating in this expression of Art, would not write offensive messages all over that bible/

She knew exacty what would happen. Maybe lack of pure judgement or someone who wanted to deliberatley offend her own religion.

reply to post by Laurauk


When i was a teenager we had a young church youth leader who was so frustrated with our behaviour (i was a typical teen hehe) that he stood in front of the whole youth group and burnt a Bible... He then said "this is what you guys think of the word of God”

Now in hindsight I can see what he was trying to achieve... But we all just see it as hypocrisy and viewed him as a weak idiot. We were young London street kids but even we knew that it was hypocritical and stupid to burn a book, which he had been telling us for the last few years, was so precious.

Sometimes people mean well but go about it in completely the wrong way.

What should be done about this woman artist?? I don’t know... maybe ban her from British galleries for a time period, maybe a fine. Neither I nor any other right minded Christian would say burn her!
But the exhibit should not have been allowed in the first place and, at the very least, should have been removed once people started writing obscenities.

And for those of you who say its Art... Where would YOU draw the line????

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
No need to offend religious people, but they dabble in alot of that between faiths and towards people with no faith. And the Pope is just such a Nob...

Hi Peru/

Who says this has to do anything with the Pope?
This has to do with the Book of God!
And what exactly do you mean 'dabble in alot of that between faiths and toward people with no faith'', actually mean?

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by Muckster


Well here you go the difference, if this was the Koran, there would be protests from Muslims calling for her to be killed.

Where this s being targeted at christianity, I still is waiting o see if any Christians comeout on the streets, calling for her death.

Do you really think this will happen, no it will not. For her tosay she is surprised by the reaction,or she regrets dong this inthe first place. Ismisleading, obviously she knew the controversey she would cause as a result of this.

She wont be banned from galleries, this will blow over, by the end of the week.

Hi/

Mention ANYTHING of Jewish ZIONISM and the Talmud....You're BRANDED an ANTI-SEMETIC-GOYIM!
Mention anything of the Prophet MUHAMMED...DEATH to the INFIDELS!

You know what....He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Luke 16:10

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26


And so the Holy Bible tells us ...
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:2

Maybe this girl was unaware of what she was doing, but I highly doubt that!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


Any Artist who contemplates evendoing something like this, knows there is going to be either a positive reaction or a negative reaction. I really fono think she thought of doing this blindly, knowing that it might draw criticism from the Catholic Church.. Notice the criticism has only come frm the Catholic Church so far. I have not seen any criticism from any other christian denominations. Which makes me question, do they find this acceptable as art?

reply to post by helen670


I just thought i'd comment on the Pope being a Nobhead, as he piped up on this issue. Is this the same Pope who suggested that condoms do not stop the spread of Aids whilst visiting Africa?

Dabble as in offending each other over various differences between their religions, which often times, leads to violence. Which i don't think this particular incident will lead to.

Now whether this is offensive or not is down to each persons take. I'm sure some if not most Christians will find offence in this and i can see why, however its not the end of the world. And i have found from 'some' christians a very holier than thou attitude towards non-christians as they expect to see you on the way to hell as a non-believer as they run towards the light at the end of their life on Earth. It is really quite ridickulous.

[rant]

Interactive Installation art...

Oh, I have so much respect for it, not. I fully expect to someday walk into a 'progressive' gallery and see a pile of stinking garbage tossed in a corner and an entreaty at the door asking people to add to it as an expression of our 'wasteful society'.

Yeah... lot of work goes into that. Groundbreaking thought. I can just imagine the 'intellectuals' rubbing their chins and nodding that they 'get it'.

:shk:

In this case, the tools used were pages from the bible and, no doubt, a jar of cheap Sharpie pens bought at a discount store. The shock value is enough to become an international issue. Way to go! Money in the bank with ZERO effort.

Not that they didn't know it would have such an effect. Defacing the bible, even with signatures and happy faces, is still defacing a holy book. After all, it's no secret that for most of 1000 years, defacing scripture would have been rewarded by a public execution. Great thinking there. How intuitive! OF course they had NO idea that it would be negative comments going in. Not in John Calvin's Scotland!!! After all, aren't they all Presbyterians following the dour teachings of John Knox?

Disgusting.

[/rant]

Originally posted by masqua
[rant]

Interactive Installation art...

Oh, I have so much respect for it, not. I fully expect to someday walk into a 'progressive' gallery and see a pile of stinking garbage tossed in a corner and an entreaty at the door asking people to add to it as an expression of our 'wasteful society'.

Yeah... lot of work goes into that. Groundbreaking thought. I can just imagine the 'intellectuals' rubbing their chins and nodding that they 'get it'.

:shk:

In this case, the tools used were pages from the bible and, no doubt, a jar of cheap Sharpie pens bought at a discount store. The shock value is enough to become an international issue. Way to go! Money in the bank with ZERO effort.

Interactive or not, art is indeed subject to the perception of individual observers; this is the most basic quality of the field. Many people are mesmerised by the art of Piet Mondrian; others roll their eyes and grumble, "But they're just a bunch of lines!". Likewise, someone has surely read your garbage-in-a-corner comment and thought, "Brilliant!".

Not that they didn't know it would have such an effect. Defacing the bible, even with signatures and happy faces, is still defacing a holy book. After all, it's no secret that for most of 1000 years, defacing scripture would have been rewarded by a public execution. Great thinking there. How intuitive! OF course they had NO idea that it would be negative comments going in. Not in John Calvin's Scotland!!! After all, aren't they all Presbyterians following the dour teachings of John Knox?

Disgusting.

[/rant]

It is indeed disingenuous to claim that vulgarities were unexpected. Placed in the same situation, a blank sheet of paper would be rife with crude scribbles; the Bible, particularly in a historically Christian environment, is just a sitting duck.

reply to post by Laurauk


Hi Laura/
And thank you for your reply.

I really cannot answer as to what the Roman Catholics Pope finds offensive...The Pope says things That I dont understand,many of times!

As for the ART work displayed,it is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, which always seems to focus on Christ or the Holy Bible.
I can't understand why any country of whatever religion should allow anything like this in the first place.
I believe the community that organized this, is as much to blame and its members for allowing it...as for the art work ...IT is NOT ART!
I remeber reading an article about some painting that sold millions...
It was a BLANK frame....well, the Paint was white!
I guess Beauty is in the hands of the Rich and famous!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670



What I find rather bizzare is that, to me the pope thinks he is speaking on behalf of christianity as a whole. Hello you are not the head of the churchof england, Mr benedict.

Also Bizzarley, the Archbishop off Canterbury has not even said anything about this. What does that tell you, with him being mainy thehead of the prodestant church.

On another note, Scotland is hardly the land of the Rich and the Famous lol



[edit on 28-7-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Hi Peru/

I understand and also believe that Christians are not better then the next person...I have said this many times.
One is not only called a Christian in name only!
It is not so much that it offends Christians, as it is that makes a MOCKERY of the WORD of God, that is most Offensive!
As for the ART work,It is NOT art work.
Art work shouldn't display blasphemous works of ANY KIND...and if that is called art, then the people are not moving ahead in civilization, but going backwards!
Much, much backwards!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by Laurauk


Hi laura/

This goes beyond the famous!
I say beyond the famous because many are only PUPPETS and OTHERS pull the strings!
it is THOSE in POWER that one must truly begin to understand the LOGIC behind all of this !
Only then many will begin to comprehend what all this is about.(I have gone beyond art here-sorry!)

ICXC NIKA
helen

if this happened to the Koran there would be mass hysteria?

Really?

Remember a u.s. soldier using the koran as target practice?

Don't remember hearing much of a brouhaha

thanks

This just makes me laugh. Its just a book.............. stop getting your knickers in a twist, i would deface it if i had the chance just to piss people like you off.

Originally posted by Gemwolf
In other words if I took an American flag and have people write obscenities all over it I could also call it art? Perhaps we can burn it in a spectacular finale? We would be expressing ourselves - and they make millions of flags every year after all... It would be just one flag...

It would definately give people perspective

The American flag is nothing but a distraction to maintain blind patriotism

Imagine if there was no flag
That would mean that a piece of cloth with stars on it wouldn't be used to instill a feeling in a person's heart that would promote pro-war sentiment.

And that goes for any flag of any country

Originally posted by paperplanes
Interactive or not, art is indeed subject to the perception of individual observers; this is the most basic quality of the field. Many people are mesmerised by the art of Piet Mondrian; others roll their eyes and grumble, "But they're just a bunch of lines!"

I'm well aware of that. The difference between Mondrian and this, though, is that he actually 'created' a work of vision. An example of that would be a banana skin nailed to a wall compared to a painting of a banana skin. One requires nothing but a banana while the other requires painterly skills. I LOVE Piet Mondrian's work, btw. His ability with the use of complimentary colour in juxtapositioned panels has penetrated ALL of my work since I was a 10 year old. I actually learned something from him.

Likewise, someone has surely read your garbage-in-a-corner comment and thought, "Brilliant!".

Believe me when I say it's already been done.

To qualify what my dislike of the type of installation art is based upon, I would say that it requires no art whatsoever. In fact, it doesn't require and artist at all. It needs only an unscrupulous gallery owner with an idea. The message is simplistic and carries no 'deeper' meaning. It simply relies on shock value to ruffle conservative feathers much in the same way a T-shirt emblazoned with profanity would.

I've seen excellent installation work too. Don Bonham, a sculptor in NYC, has done some early work (60's) which focussed on topics relevant to today. An airtight glass case, in a vacuum, containing a diaspora of rotting fish on a beach was a testament to our neglect and pollution of rivers, oceans and lakes. I can respect that, because it took some work to produce.

Not all installation art is crap... but this one in Scotland is.

Anyways, it's only my opinion, for what that's worth. We all know how badly Van Gogh was received by his contemporaries, but look at the value attached to his paintings today.

Originally posted by Discotech
reply to post by noonebutme

 

Hmmm so if any form of art is ok

How do you feel about 2girls1cup ? That was called art by some, there was also a university student who tried to do something similar in public display, do you consider that art ?

That's the name of my home server!!!

It was pretty nasty but funny nonetheless!

What if there was art which depicted rape & murder would you have no issues with that on public display ?

Of course I would, you numpty! I said in my post above (or implied anywaze) that while no one was being hurt, abused, molested or assaulted in any way, what's the problem? And depictions of rape & murder come under the 'abuse/assault" catagory.

Again, so what if someone desecrates a Bible? Or the Koran? Or any other 'special needs' literature.

If one's religion convictions are that weak and frail whereby any form of question or debunking or 'offensive rebuke' of their manuscripts cause them to foam at the mouth, then the issue is with them, IMO.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Would it be ok if I come over to your house and start writing on your walls with permanent marker? I promise I will only draw art. Then can I use the same marker and write all over your car? Again, I will only draw art.

How did you get 5 stars for such an irrelevant analogy?

I've been noticing this more and more on ATS.

Property damage is the same as Purchasing a copy of the bible from your own pocket and allowing people to write on it?

The guy you are responding to may be paying a mortgage, every friggin month, sweat and blood for food and shelter.

And you suggest damaging that shelter that he is paying for and equating that to writing over a sci-fi book that the artist paid for?

oh oh, i'm in the twillight zone again!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Hi ModernA/

I actually disagree with you about the flag!
The Flag holds much more sentiment then you think!
Take for example the flag of Greece, it has A Cross on it...Burning/defacing it would definitely cause MUCH uproar amongst the People and the whole of the country!
It could cause a war!

Truly!

ICXC NIKA
helen