CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

soilders will follow orders. Its what theyre trained to do. They arent going to research on alt sites about whether the story theyre being fed is true.

a false flag will happen and the soldiers will obey. even if that means shooting american citizens.

former us army

my story here....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Look at it this way, right now we all know the iraq war is total BS. there werent any weapons of mass destruction. There was no link to terrorists. No risk of iraq building a nuclear weapon either.

Yet everyday 250,000 us soldiers remain in iraq killing so-called "insurgents" and "terrorists"

Why should we believe a us soldier wont turn a gun on us when they have no problem killing iraq civilians ?

[edit on 28-7-2009 by admriker444]

I'm retired from the United States Air Force. I'm a Mormon, a Husband, a Father, a Grandfather, and a 32nd Degree Freemason.

I will ALWAYS stand by the Constitution of the United States and the People!!

'nuff said...

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
I have run across some disturbing posts though, from people who seem to think that I am in the minority in thinking, that if SHTF our American military brothers and sisters in arms will stand beside its people, and turn on its handlers.

I hate to burst your bubble (not really) but when the "SHTF", i.e. when the right wing terrorists begin acting out, it will be the Canadian and not the US military which - ehem - pacifies you. What's more, this is old news. Try to keep up.
[edit on 27-7-2009 by Lilitu]

There will be no SHTF for one day things will be different, no gun shots, protests etc the best attack is to lull us to sleep and we never wakeup.

Just spend 3 or 4 trillion dollars making the poor and middle class happy for a few short years and change everything you want to change during that process to have future generations live with the terrible truth. Where do they get the money to do this? Just print it....


[edit on 28-7-2009 by Xtrozero]

To begin, I apologize as I have not had the time to read all of the posts on this thread (on leave from Iraq). If I reiterate a point made earlier or do not attempt an answer at a posed question, this is the reason.

Without revealing too much personal information, I am an officer of the uniformed services working in the special operations field.

I am sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I will, and I will advise all those under my charge to honor this oath up to and including "treason" if necessary. My life is pleged to the Constitution, not any individual or regieme.

Several of my men have already expressed intrest in joining the "Army of the Republic of Texas" should the existance of such an entity be necessary. We love guns, we hate taxes, and we know that socialized health care is a disaster (TRICARE is a joke) and such things should be left to the miracle that is Capitolism. In short, Patriots and Americans (at least my opinion thereof).

Your real worries should be of security contractors and mercs (and liberals).

Rest assured that me nor any of my Soldiers will impenge on the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of any US Citizen that is not violating the rights of any other Citizen. I carry a sidearm everyday in civilian clothes, but my life would have to be in EXTREME danger before I resorted to deadly force while in uniform. Its just not right. Whether the hoi palloi trust the uniform or not, I just can't turn the rifle on those I'm here to protect.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think most of "us" are.

Sleep soundly, America.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

I guess if the Goverment payed me enough ,i would just about do anything for the Goverment

I'd also just like to jump in here and point out that to the people saying "I wouldn't shoot my family" that's crap and you know it. No you wouldn't shoot your family, nor would you shoot your friends family, but that's not the point.

You wouldn't have to shoot family, NOR would they be in any danger from "roving mobs" or anything like that. They would be in specialized government housing living a decent life, because YOU are the worker for the government. All their needs would be met because YOU are out their, putting down the rebellion.

It would be the civilians who aren't related to military personnel that had to make sacrifices, no food, living in tents, purifying their own water....and I bet that given that situation, NEARLY EVERYONE would make the choice to look out for your family and kill an American citizen who is nameless to you.

Not trying to be inflammatory, just making an observation on human sociology.

Take the soldier's gun away, give him a Taser and a Police Badge, and of course he'll assist in rounding up citizens. By the way our Police are Tasing people like it's going out of style, I'm sure soldiers wouldn't feel so bad (in fact maybe they'd think it's kind of fun) to Taser "disorderly" citizens (disorderly meaning standing up to protect their rights).

All the TPTB have to do is change the psychology of the situation just a few degrees away from "death" and suddenly it's justifiable.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

have you guys seen this video? If you don't believe then this should do it for ya.

www.youtube.com...

or this

wiseasserpents.com...

[edit on 28-7-2009 by epete22]

Solderers turning on the people they choose to defend. I am currently in the Navy stationed on the us gorge w bush. After i enlisted i took an oath:
I solemnly swear to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic. To obey the orders of those appointed over me, and those of the president. so help me god.
that's not the oath verbatim but that is all of the points that it covers. In my particular view, i would defend the constitution; i would be discriminative against foreign and domestic threats whatever they may be. it depends on the the individuals ideology.
one other side note. all branches of armed forces are trained in the classroom and one the street in humanitarian aid, riot control, and other thing of that nature. we may be global police but weir are also global welfare

[edit on 28-7-2009 by navburr502]

I hope you don't expect to draw conclusions. People are more likely to be on this site if they are in the know about such obscure documents as the constitution...
And why would you join the military if you didn't believe in what our government was doing? How long has it been since the military functioned as a constitution-defending force and not some hit-squad of elitist interests?

I am a marine and can safely say, HELL NO! And despite what conspiracy theorists think I am not brainwashed and they wouldn't be able to just "turn on" something that will make me kill. Nope, never gonna happen.

I don't enjoy killing and never have. I am a loving father and husband. I don't like hurting people.

SHAME on you people to assume I'd hurt my wife or daughter or any other american. Thats disgusting to assume that.

And dont judge me for joining the marines. Everyone is not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. After leaving home after being severly abused my whole life and no work experience, not to mention having a pregnant girlfriend I really had NO options but to join. I bet most of yall have not been through a quarter of what I've been through.. So don't judge.

I'm not even "in" the military anyways anymore, I was shot and honorably discharged a while back.

And thats all I'm saying in this thread!

I would LOVE to turn on the EVIL GOVERNMENT, not the people

And BTW don't assume because we are military that we support the gov or bush or obama. I HATE them all!

And with that, I will NOT be back to this thread so if anyone has anything to say to me don't bother because I won't see it. And I'm sure like in most threads if yall do say anything back to me it'll just be that I'm wrong,and I don't know what I'm talking about and I would kill my family if told to and BS like that.

And anyways how do yall know you aren't brainwashed from television and radio and stuff? You don't. If your gonna point fingers at the military I'm going to say the same about you.

I've said all I have to say and theres nothing more to be said!


[edit on 28-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

I've been lurking around for 6-7 years, once every other day. I never replied before because I did not feel that it was worth giving out info about my personal life only to give out my useless opinion. But today, I feel like I've got something useful to say, so here it is. When I enlisted 3 years ago, it was in part because I was, and still am fascinated by the whole military system (chain of command, military history, strategy, etc.). So taking the perspective of a student, I can say that I learnt a lot about the workings of that system.

Anyhow, here's what I wanted to add. The chain of command, in any military system, is the way it is for many reasons. Obviously, it helps communicate and manage a whole lot of people. I doubt any privately owned businness or corporations employ as many people. But it is also a way to distribute responsibility for actions taken or as others might say, finding a scapegoat to take the blame and suffer consequences when errors occur.

Before going further here's a quick refresher on military CoC. As a rule of thumb, a Lcol or major will command around 4 captains, a captain will command 3-4 lieutenants, a lieutenant will command 3-4 sergeants and a sergent will command 10-12 soldiers, corporals or master corporals. In terms of experience, it goes somewhat like this

Major > Captain > Lieutenant < Sergent < Warrant Officer

With this in mind, every order issued by the higher ups are studied and divided as it goes down the CoC. When it's finally at the bottom of the CoC, the lieutenant, a mid twenties man with the least combat experience of all his commanding officers and NCOs, has to execute the order. So usually, he will rely on the experience and judgement of the officer that issued the order as well as suggestions from his veteran sergeants with 6 to 12 years of experience. This puts tremendous stress and pressure on the lieutenants and in turn makes him way more prone to error. So all this coupled with the fact that young officers receive only a handful of military law courses (i.e. they're certainly not equal to a lawyer who's out for their ass in court martial) makes it very probable that they would carry out an order without thinking too much about the right or wrong of the order.

And ultimately, the other members implicated in the event will scapegoat him. All NCOs (Sergeants and lower) have in their defense that they just obeyed the order. All the higher ups will say in their defense that they issued the order but the lieutenant did not carry it as they intended it to be carried. (Intention is really important when an order is issued). That being said, I'm talking about grey areas of operation where the public needs a person to take responsibility and polarize hate towards. There are obvious situations where no military member would shoot a human being.

And finally, I think that there should be a lot more classes of military law before being deployed in any way. These days, it's more like it's completely left to the individual to understand and interpret those laws. I've not seen many lieutenants carefully studying these. Understandably, they are more preoccupied studying their combat drills.

Anyhow, all this was to say that I kind of feel that the whole system is made in a way to easily justify errors of judgement on the part of junior officers. Also to be able to easily implement disciplinary action in such an event.

I'm not sure I managed to clearly convey my message. I'll be glad to precise any unclear aspect of my post.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Take the soldier's gun away, give him a Taser and a Police Badge, and of course he'll assist in rounding up citizens. By the way our Police are Tasing people like it's going out of style, I'm sure soldiers wouldn't feel so bad (in fact maybe they'd think it's kind of fun) to Taser "disorderly" citizens (disorderly meaning standing up to protect their rights).

All the TPTB have to do is change the psychology of the situation just a few degrees away from "death" and suddenly it's justifiable.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

You are sooo right! Remember the "military man" of today is a scared, unemployable kid (18-22 or so). He's not aware of what the Bill of Rights is, in many cases. He knows he'll be punished severely if he disobeys a direct order. He has been “brainwashed” in boot camp as we all were, even 40 years ago, when I was serving in the Marine Corps. The current “military man” has become hardened and numbed by death in this current war.

I believe we have much to fear from our military as it is now constituted should the SHTF. It will be ugly, as all war is. This country has sown to the wind for decades and is about to reap a whirlwind in return. May God forgive us our transgressions and have mercy on our souls.

There's ANOTHER thing. Yes we all know that you took oaths. Awesome. All the Constitution protects is PEACEABLE assembly. It doesn't protect armed rebellion, (though it should considering this is how the country was founded. Just one more, do as I say, not as I do moments in American history).

At any rate, SINCE the Constitution gives no quarter for armed rebellion, you would HAVE to shoot civilians in order to protect the Constitution. Even in cold blood.

Let me put a scenario to you. Congressional Building is barricaded up, you guys are behind your sand bags...10,000 armed Americans are marching on your position with the intent to clear out the Congress and take those members in to custody. Now the spin: The guns that they are holding are up over their heads, two handed in "surrender style". CLEARLY showing that they are NOT threatening you. Their intent is to walk right by you in to the building and take those members in to custody, and put them on trial for treason.

You aren't going to allow that and you know it.

All i can say is that, right now you are all basing your decisions on a situation that you are not under pressure from within. You people are fighting foreign terrorists and are stimulated by that notion at this period in time.

You all mention the constitution and the bill of rights. But what if the bill of rights and the constitution is threatened from within?
Have you people ever thought that you might have to fight for it again in the future?

Who do you think you would have to be fighting to protect it? The Russians or the Chinese.

The bill of rights and the constitution is hardly known by any American citizen. And most of the people who swear to uphold it. Don't even know what the constitution is about. They would have to google it.

No body here has even mentioned once that the constitution is been broken by your politicians and by the US military already. Or that your bill of right have been changed a lot from the original. What does the constitution say about your wars ?

You people dont see that what is going on is a slow process. You dont see that you are about to get a new constitution in the future and a new bill of rights. Because its a slow process. Your kids will be groomed to the new system. Not you.

When the SHTF there will be people who dont know what is going on. Because they haven't been paying attention. And the bill of right and the constitution won't come to mind before they and their families are personally affected by the new situation. And when this happens people would have to google the old bill of right and the old constitution just to catch up to figure out that they have been had.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

i am in the militarty in Afghanistan right now, getting ready to come home thank God. But i don't believe there is one person here that would shoot fellow Americans or anyone else for just no reason what so ever. And you don't have to go through with any order given to you that is UNlawful and i think just randomly shooting citizens would fall under that catagory so i think your safe.

reply to post by AgentXI


You said "But i don't believe there is one person here that would shoot fellow Americans or anyone else for just no reason what so ever." What if you were told to attack anarchists who were attempting to overthrow America? This is the way the situation will be presented to you.

what happens if they use foreign troops like the U.N. they don't care about another countries citizens.remember how they stood by in Bosnia and let all those young boys and men be murdered.they thought the U.N.would protect them.but no,they turned a blind eye.i know a bit off topic,but wasn't there a forum on here about foreign troops brought in to America to help police the American people,in case of possible future disturbances.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by bobbylove321

 

You need to seriously get a grip on reality.

You can live in your fog if you so desire, but it is awfully ignorant to use your freedoms to malign those who defend them with their lives.

I really wish that we could give all those who think like you a piece of land to call your own, so that you could live in this peaceful, blissful world of no evil and no need for use of force.

You would be a model for all the rest of humanity.

before you all bite bobby's head off, i think the point he's trying to make, is that in the world as it is, when you fight, you fight for those in control of the world, and at the moment, unpleasant people control the world. THAT is reality.

if no one in the world faught, there would be no wars.

at the moment, since a lot of people are unpleasant, and a lot of people are under the control of other unpleasant people, there are wars and fighting. the only way to really end the situation, is for everyone to experience a personal revelation about living peacefully on a block of land (as you suggest) and growing their own vegetables. i live in hope.

in the meantime, i dont question the motives of those who serve in the army. they see themselves as protecting their country from foreign forces who could harm their families and friends. and the way the world is at the moment, the foreign forces and powers would no doubt do so, even if everyone in the USA dropped their weapons. so yeah. its a problem.

until everyone in the world cottons onto the living in peace on a vegetable farm idea, we are going to have to protect our selves and others from unpleasant, unpeaceful people.

BUT: if a lot of the unpleasantness is coming from the very top of our society. by those in charge - and who DO control governments/military/police/judges etcetera - directly or indirectly, - then i think bobby is trying to say that people need to think carefully about the orders they are following and personally evaluate everything. and i think we all need to turn a critical eye on our politicians and leaders - and bankers - etc - including people in teh military. becuz the military CAN be used against its people, and to support evil ends. just look at the nazis. i am sure most of them believed they were patriotically serving their country, yet look what happened. i just think people need to THINK. defend those you love, sure; but i do think people need to be careful about what and whose goals they could be furthering by serving their leaders.

and if the leaders turn on the people you love, dont fight for them anymore. fight for those you love. personally i think our leaders already have turned on the people. which presents a bit of a problem.

Originally posted by pauldamo
what happens if they use foreign troops like the U.N. they don't care about another countries citizens.remember how they stood by in Bosnia and let all those young boys and men be murdered.they thought the U.N.would protect them.but no,they turned a blind eye.i know a bit off topic,but wasn't there a forum on here about foreign troops brought in to America to help police the American people,in case of possible future disturbances.

Exactly! Foreign troops that hate Americans are already here and training with law enforcement. They'll have no problem confiscating our weapons or gathering us up to send us to the FEMA camps for extermination, including our own military men who refuse direct orders.