CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

Originally posted by Alesanjin
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Well, I'm not yet in the Navy, but, I'm applying later this year. And well, regardless of what stupid crap some people spew out, I have met, and gotten to know one or two people in the Navy, and, I can tell you this... They are just as normal or weird as you or me!

Hell yeah, and amen brother!

Just wait until you cross the equator, you slimy polliwog! That be Neptune's kingdom!

Seriously. I was on an aircraft carrier when I went through that tradition... fun fun!

What makes you worry that this is a military problem only? People can be "deputized" to do dirty work. Frankly, the military would likely be the best at resisting bull****, not falling in line to enforce it. I'd worry about the "civilians" that have little or no respect for human life---guys like ----.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Jim Scott]

I don't want to go all 'Jericho' on you, but I doubt the Military would be the biggest problem if the SHTF in the US.

You'd have companies like Xe (Blackwater) blazing trails across the country, looting, raping and pillaging their way through every town they came to while still being completely above the law.

You'd have anti-militias of sorts that would be simply out to make a profit and cause trouble.

I'm sure the vast majority of military personnel, when organized, would act in a constitutional and humanistic way. But if communications were down and people had no idea what was going on... bet your ass everyone would be only looking out for themselves.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Well, knowing what I know now I would have to say that I would not stand against the people of the United States. However when I was a young recruit I had this sense of, I guess you could call it Super Solider. I felt then that I would follow any order, and or kill anything they instructed me to. I should also point out that if it had ever come to that while I served that I might change my mind while looking my fellow brother's and sisters in the face. American's killing American's just doesn't seem right. I think that the older more experienced military members in the service would feel the same way about the people they protect. Hopefully they could influence their younger colleuges.

Marines - break things, kill people - not a riot control or peace keeping forces
Navy - costal or deep water combat - not a riot control or peace keeping
Air Force - death from above - not a riot control or peace keeping
Army - maybe peace keeping but better used in combat
National Guard - more of a riot control or peace keeping force
Coast Guard - not a riot control or peace keeping
Police - riot control or peace keeping
So you are looking at mercs, other than US forces or already devoted to the cause forces
Your neighbors, brothers, sons, daughters ... will always be your ...

I've said this on other threads but it seems like no one gets it. Yes, they would turn on the American people, but not in the way you describe it.

The uprising would begin in a localized place and then catch on from there, so for example, the entire city of Billings decides enough is enough, they arm up and throw every Fed Govt worker out of the city, close down the offices and line up on the streets in barricade. The Govt. will NOT bring in troops from the local reserve unit, nor would they use regular troops. They would allow local law enforcement or the FBI to handle it. Once it becomes apparent that the FBI can't close this crap down, can't starve the group out, or outlast them in the field, THEN the army would be called in. But by this time its been a month or so and the news has spun this so that these guys are terrorists.

They bring a bring a unit in all right, but these people are from Alabama. Or New York, or ANY OTHER STATE. No, Montana troops would probably NOT fire on other Montana folk, but Oklahomans would, or Texans would...Especially after all the news spin.

The PTB would never handle it this way. They would have soldiers from other states run up in there, blow the place to hell, and apologize, give a few freedoms back to quiet the masses and would restart their agenda. Any one remember Waco?

The ONLY way that you could get a revolution going without firing a shot is to build it underground until you have a majority of the population and then start it in multiple places simultaneously. Austin, Chicago, Oklahoma City, Green Bay, Raleigh, Orlando, Portland, Denver. All of the major cities in every state would have to do the same thing at the same time. Only then would the military realize that there was more to it than just some idiots totin guns.

IF you did it like that, then yes, I believe the regular military folk would sit back and figure it out for themselves. Otherwise, they are going to follow orders, AS THEY SHOULD, and listen to what their commanders spoon feed them.

Not their fault, not that they're evil people...Just more victims in the spin war.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I believe TPTB have a way around it - Here in central FL many guardsmen are on their way to Afghanistan. I asked at one unit who would come in to take their place in an "emergency". They said elements from AL, GA, and NC were scheduled to arrive. However, since the admin. is sending an unusually high number of guard from all across the country to Afghanistan, there msut be another plan. A LEO this past weekend told me there are several thousands marines from S. America in Jacksonville, FL. I have since learned of NATO troops in New Mexico.

I imagine that under some 40 yr-old agreement, any "riot" would be enough to trigger foreign troops to "quell" the problem.

What I am saying, folks, is keep your cool. I believe there is a time and place for everything (Ecclesiastes 3:1-8). But do not play into these peoples' hands!

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Unfortunately, those that will be enforcing martial law will be mostly made up of foreign troops (UN) though that is by design. Most of our troops will be conveniently overseas.

To answer your question, there are many ex-military like myself that would defend the 'people' and that which our military had supposedly lost so many lives defending; the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Freedom and Liberty for all.

America is the last stand in the NWO scheme. If Americans don't rise up and defend the institutions above, America and that of the world will pay the price. Their collective progeny will be introduced to a world of serfdom where no one, even TPTB will be satisfied with the End result.

You have a Choice.
Choose wisely and act Courageously with Compassion in forethought.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
I have run across some disturbing posts though, from people who seem to think that I am in the minority in thinking, that if SHTF our American military brothers and sisters in arms will stand beside its people, and turn on its handlers.

I hate to burst your bubble (not really) but when the "SHTF", i.e. when the right wing terrorists begin acting out, it will be the Canadian and not the US military which - ehem - pacifies you. What's more, this is old news. Try to keep up.

Don't believe me? Read it straight from the horse's mouth, unless you are afraid to click a dot mil link.

U.S. Northern Command, Canada Command establish new bilateral Civil Assistance Plan

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Lilitu]

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I'm former military, or rather a civilian with military experience, or something. I dunno, I feel more an more military the more and more the government goes down the tubes.

The thing is there will be people in the military that will follow illegal orders, and those that won't. If TSHTF the military will have a period where it will be fighting itself. This I have no doubt.

My husband and I have had many a conversation about topics like this ever since he realized that people actually believe that those in the military are mindless, puppy-killing, rapist zombies. The first time he saw a similar question posed in a thread here his initial reaction was "Are they serious? Hell no that wouldn't happen. It would be an illegal order and we don't follow those."

What people here seem to forget, or be blissfully unaware of in some cases, is that those in the military are just like everyone else in this country. They have families, friends, parents, children, siblings, etc. just like the rest of us. They have the same worries and fears, the same habits, likes, and dislikes. They are human beings for heavens sake. They aren't made in factories. The only people who seem to think otherwise are people who have had minimal interactions with anyone in the military and have absolutely no clue whatsoever about anything even remotely related to the military.

As for the $100 comment, pfft. I know from personal experience that if they are charging you that much for a plate, you're being ripped off and going hungry for the effort. You may get a soldier to take a bet for a $100, but get their obedience? Hah! I don't think so. It's absolutely laughable that anyone could be ignorant enough to think otherwise.

Hi Manbehindthemask,

I also know that an officers oath in the military is to protect and obey the CONSTITUTION over anything the POTUS might hand down.

I can't find the link, I read that Soetoro intends to change the officer oath and strike the word Constitution and re-word it toward "obey the president."

Keep in mind that he's fulfilling his campaign promise to stand up a 250,000 man federal police force - it's the Americorp organization that's in charge of it. He never stated what it's for - never mind that they're not needed since we already have FBI, TSA, ABF, and many other law enforcement agencies.

Keep in mind, also, that the Acorn organization is empowered to conduct the next census and to enforce the law that requires citizens to answer all the questions. Acorn will play a heavy hand in the enforcements that are inherent with the upcoming socialized medicine, watch for Acorn to evolve into an enforcement organization (notice, I didn't use the term "law" enforcement).

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I am former miltary. I don't think I would have ever turned on my own people just because I was ordered to do so. But, I can only speak for myself. I recall the veterans, following WWI who marched to D.C. to demand their due payments for their service and the current military at the time did, indeed, turn them back. Sorry is all I can say about those people who did that to vets.

When you are in the military you do have a mindset of that what I am told to do is right.

When I was deploying to Iraq, a veteran wrote an editorial in the paper telling all of us current military members to refuse to go fight the unjust war, because we might get injured and end up like him, ignored by his own country, and forced to suffer the rest of his life for lies. I scoffed at the editorial. Now, I could maybe be him. I could write the same sort of editorial, and be scoffed at by current members of the military.

I made a career out of bucking my superiors when I saw they were doing stupid and immoral things. Also things that weren't even supported in regulations. My reward? Heh. I got promoted earlier. And even placed in positions which required higher rank and more experience. I responded by doing a damn good job. Yeah, I butted heads a lot. I was not well liked by some people. But others respected my opinions.
And I must say, yes, at least 95 percent of those under my commmand had positive feelings towards me because I was just and reasonable.

Would I have shot those suppposedly rubber bullets at the protesters at Kent State? Nope. Why? Because they were no threat and they were under the protection of the first amendment. The constitution is the backbone of my oath I took quite a few times.

In my experience, there were very few fellow soldiers who would have even thought to turn on the civilians of America. Just my 2 cents. But I don't really know now, the atmosphere in the military. Not first hand. But I trust them to be like I was, just a regular guy, who was in the military and remembered who it was I was supposed to protect in the first place.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I'm not military, but I've told myself for years that the men and women of the armed forces are just men and women. They aren't going to back an order that would threaten the very life/ lifestyle they and their own families enjoy. you don't train a man to become a working part of the baddest a$$ miliary force on the planet, and then tell him to put his kid in a fema camp.

...I've never worried about the miitary putting us in camps or any of that; the corporate mercinaries though, lack the purpose in training, and are not 'defenders' of anything, they're more like mafia. Those are the turds that will put a gun to your kids' heads for money.

Being former military, I would not nor any friends I have being former military follow such blatant illegal orders as that without just cause(i.e. defend ourselve and other innocents from attack by out of control mobs). As has already been said though a lot of foreign troops are coming into this country as treatied assistance and for training, they would be used as well as military and guard troops from other regions being used to quell any uprising in unfamiliar areas.
Take the red pill at home then the blue pill with kool-aid 4 states over with spoonfed spin, riot incited mob(government induced of course) and you have a recipe for a lead party.

I got a crazy idea, how about 250,000 ATS former military members work on getting ourselves hired for the fed police force, then when the idiots give stupid illegal orders, we instead trun and arrest the idiot and try them for treason and terrorism. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, might be crazy but think of the trouble the government would find themselvs in then

Hey guys i just wanted to let you know, i really appreciate you participating in this thread.

ive been gone most of the day , but im still going to be very active in the post. Everyone is welcome to comment, but lets please stay on task.

Feel free to share your experiences, and your feelings towards the civis of the United States, and what you would like to see change.

Im former military myself, USMC and i know its hard when you come home to B.S, like i stated on another forum.

I would hope that at least in some small part this thread can open the eyes of at least the people on this site, to how we as the military feel towards our fellow countrymen, and how we still stand behind them.

Times are getting tough right now, and there are a lot of things swirling in the wind, people need to be reassured!

GJ guys! Keep it up, and feel free to share the link with your brothers in arms.

Semper Fi

I'm prior Air Force and there's no way I'd ever go against the US Constitution because of something POTUS ordered when I was active, and I'd certainly not these days. Several f my friends are all still active duty and there's no way they'd go against the Constitution. We've had long talks about this over BBQ's and it's pretty much universal. If the Government steps out of line and tries to turn the military against the citizens of the US, they are in for a rude awakening.

I suggest that, if you want to know the answer, take a look at history and then ask yourself why US soldiers would be any different.

Our soldiers are *NOT* mindless killing machines. They are highly trained soldiers, whose task is to follow orders and protect their own people (that is, their fellow soldiers), to fight for various objectives, and in general to do what they're told without objecting. Questioning a superior officer's orders is insubordination. Refusing to act on them is illegal and subjects the soldier to a court martial.

True - a soldier is forbidden to commit certain atrocities even when ordered to by his superior officers. But really, when does he have time to figure out what's an atrocity? Maybe sometimes, but not always.

One of the problems we've had fighting the past couple of wars is that we weren't fighting just armies, we were fighting armed civilians. In Vietnam, kids sometimes brought bombs to our soldiers, blowing themselves up along with the soldiers. So did others - women, children, elderly men. It got so that you couldn't tell friend from foe. Much the same applies in Iraq and Afghanistan. So there are often times when a soldier has to decide whether to fire at someone who appears to be a citizen - or at least, who's not in a military uniform. You can't always tell who's armed.

The problem with this is that these soldiers are learning that a uniform is not a reliable way of telling who's dangerous, who's a combatant, and who's not. I mean, sure, you see a guy point a Kalashnikov at you, there's a good reason to assume he's not your friend. But someone could be wearing a bomber vest, have a grenade, or otherwise represent a serious danger and you can't see it.

So you learn to take it on faith when someone orders you to shoot. Even if you don't see an obvious danger, you learn that the enemy isn't always going to identify himself for y0ou.

American soldiers should not be performing law enforcement tasks in the US. There's a lwa against it. Of course, laws were meant to be broken, so that's little protection.

If they begin to be called up to do it, they might very well fire when ordered. Much would probably depend on whether any citizens - unarmed civilians - have been shooting at soldiers. If so, the assumption would likely be that there is a danger, so go ahead and shoot.

To all you complete pacifists out there: the only reason you don't have to fight to protect your little patch of turf, however modest, is because of the soldiers you despise.

reply to post by secretagent woooman


First of all, you dont get charged with desertion. If you knew anything about the military or really do have friends in the military, then you would know that it is ENCOURAGED not to follow immoral orders from your superiors.

Whats more, your oath is to uphold and protect the constitution as it has been stated over and over again on this thread. I will also state, that under the UCMJ soldiers that disobey orders that VIOLATE their oath to uphold said document, are PROTECTED. Not that it would matter at that point if it came to it, because there would be a backlash against the government BY the military for ordering such a thing.

Second, its not a waste of time, its an honest inquiry, and as you can see, there are plenty of people who have thought about this. Looking around and seeing whats going on in America, is making people ask A LOT of quetsions.
If i were you i would spend MORE time looking at things like this and becoming aware of what is going on around you.

3rd. Nothing in my OP said anything about FEMA camps, i did however ask a series of questions and hypothetical situations.

4th. Dont try to sit there and tell me anything about the military yourself...you may have "friends" in the military , but i spent a great part of my life since 2002 IN Iraq and IN the military.

Any of your friends that say "We do what we are told" without question is either a bad soldier, or someone you just conjured up to give your post more credibility.

Not trying to be a jerk, but dont come on this post thrashing people and being ugly for no reason. If you dont like the subject then DONT comment on it, if you think its a waste of time , then why even post?

Edit to add: A lot of people are talking about the UN being the ones to do the dirty work, and ive often thought about this too, but its not the subject of my thread. Im sure that they would indeed be tapped to come in and do things like this , if the situation came about. However with the amount of military STILL stateside and former military personnel still living here, I dont really think we would have to worry much about that. We are a pretty darn well armed country, with a huge amount of the population familiar with military operations , maneuvers and combat experience.

You get those of us who have been trained and know how to organize soldiers , and those vets who know how to mobilize, and the UN is gonna have some pretty serious problems on their hands


[edit on 28-7-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]

It would be an unlawful order and if we obey one then we are as guilty as the person giving it. So we not only need to understand the order but to comprehend whether it is lawful or not. How many of you get constant training in morals, international law and proper conduct. I bet the average citizen wouldn’t have a clue to any of it.

When I read many of these posts about the mindless military following orders it is like listening to an 8th grader talking about how much math they know, thinking they know all there is to know about math. People get all worked up over this and don’t have a clue.