Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Obviously not the limitations I was talking about............

Did I say so?
I was responding to Spiramirabilis.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Didn't say you did though you treated it like that was acceptable response to the question posed. But I have her on ignore for reasons that doesn't belong being posted in thread so I clicked your response. Sorry.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
But I have her on ignore for reasons that doesn't belong being posted in thread so I clicked your response. Sorry.

Ah I see. No problem.
.
Is this the 2nd or the 3rd line? Oh well.. doesn't matter .

reply to post by TruthParadox


hey Truth - could you ask Watcher to pass the salt?

:-)

thanks for your comment last night - was not overly fond of mankind just then

all better now - god or no

How about we get back to the topic..

"Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation "

This is NOT idle chit chat corner...

Thank you

Semper

"Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers?"

The answer, is obviously, NO.

End of thread.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


You have anything to support that? I presented a study...you simply refused to accept it as plausible.

When I look through the thread, and even at my own attempts to communicate, and it's plainly obvious that by no means is the atheist more intelligent. In fact, they don't even seem to grasp some of the concepts which were presented, preferring to just bypass them, and continue to insist that they are right, and are in the know. Intelligence and ignorance cannot go together.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
When I look through the thread, and even at my own attempts to communicate, and it's plainly obvious that by no means is the atheist more intelligent. In fact, they don't even seem to grasp some of the concepts which were presented, preferring to just bypass them, and continue to insist that they are right, and are in the know.

So you regard the stupidity of atheists as proved by their seeming inability to understand you?

Well, it's possible. There are, however, other equally likely explanations. Here are three.

1. Your communication skills are unequal to the subject-matter. You understand what you mean to say clearly enough, but you can't make yourself clear to others.
   
   
2. Your linguistic skills are fine, but you aren't intelligent enough to see - even when it is clearly explained to you - why the ideas you're promoting are wishful, inconsistent and fly in the face of the facts.
   
   
3. There is nothing wrong with either your communications skills or intelligence, but you fear the mechanistic truth so much you stop your ears to it and indulge in defensive name-calling to drown out the voice of reason.
   

Before coming to the conclusion you note above, did you consider these other explanations? On what grounds did you eliminate them?

At any rate, all communications are for the benefit of the sender, so our apparent lack of understanding is your problem, not ours.

By the way, it isn't very bright to say that

intelligence and ignorance cannot go together.

Smart people understand that ignorance is not lack of intelligence but lack of information.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
When I look through the thread, and even at my own attempts to communicate, and it's plainly obvious that by no means is the atheist more intelligent. In fact, they don't even seem to grasp some of the concepts which were presented, preferring to just bypass them, and continue to insist that they are right, and are in the know. Intelligence and ignorance cannot go together.

Let's look back on what you said as a reply to one of my posts:

"Interesting, how you deny the very contextual framework within which reality arises, which is infinite ie: what's outside or contains the whole universe..?

Obviously, the infinite or the Asbolute is in some way limiting itself so that out of the implicate order, an explicate reality can present itself, or, there would be nothing at all, or just a vast sea of entirely RANDOM fluctuations.

The atheist ought not pin their belief or lack of it, on a randomly generated and utterly indifferent universe.

It's had plenty of time to become in-formed or self aware, on the path of progress, to ultimate actualization, which could have occured two or millions of universes, ago."

Again, you have assumed this "infinite" or "Absolute" exists. Where is the evidence to clarify why it is little more than faith that you claim?

Obviously it is not very obvious, otherwise such a theory would be more than some fringe proposition.
You have already defined and positioned an "Absolute" as the answer to the problems that have been presented.
I don't say that your idea or stolen theory is wrong, I just think it is more or less faith-based until proven otherwise.

It is writing like yours above though, which is why, possibly, you are passed over. You say it is "obvious", but you need to then complicate matters, and befuddle the reader.
K.I.S.S - "keep it simple stupid"

The concepts you speak of are leaps of faith. It's not we don't "grasp" them, we reject them as factually sound.

reply to post by makinho21



I have given I pretty good reason in my first post on this thread, as to why atheists might be scoring slightly higher than religious denominations.

What baffles me…(and this may require a whole new thread discussion, because it is not directly related to the question in the OP) is why are the atheists scoring higher than the agnostics? even though it is only slighter higher, by a tiny margin.



- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


and your points are well taken. Thank you for the replies.
I am merely attempting to point out to Omega why her/his posts do not get the attention he/she thinks they deserve.

He basically refuted the whole OP without providing anything other than "faith", which is why I replied.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
"Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers?"

The answer, is obviously, NO.

End of thread.

I thought this thread was finished,I see that it's not.
This post says it all.

reply to post by makinho21


I also offered quotes from scientists much more knowledgeable and smarter than I. That one guy Laszlo, he is considered one of the smartest people on the planet at this time.
I believe the premise that he's operating under is that the universe, and the complexity which arises within it, is the result of non-local information sharing which is formative or cumulative, defining an arrow of progress, and this model is validated by the complexity of life we see all around us, and are ourselves. Then there is the consciousness factor, and the subjective/objective interdependancy as a participative co-creation.
These things point to a fully informed, information gathering matrix or in short, a mind of God, which indeed will have had plenty of time to become self aware.
Modern science is continually affirming that the universe is wholistic and interdepedant, and non-locally, or transluminally interconnected, as some sort of holographic wave form made of light. Not bits and piece which operate as a machine. It's more thoughtlike, than matterlike.
The arrow of modern science is pointing towards a God-mind hypothesis, and away from a Cartesian Newtonian Materialist Reductionistic machine-like universe, and if it's a machine, where is the energy coming from which drives it?
What I find most interesting about Laszlo's hypothesis of the fully informed Akashic Field (Zero Point Field) is how he's not even talking about a first cause, but instead, an arrow of progress where each potentiality becomes fully actualized, from universe to universe.
There are even some who suggest that the so-called unseen "dark matter" is the base of the pyramid of a parent universe which has a gravitational impact on our own universe.
All we are saying is that where there is progress, there is hiearchy, and where there is information exchange and intelligent design, there is mind, and where there is mind, there is an apex of mind - and what we're talking about is an infinite intelligence at the apex of all universes which is fully informed and therefore fully aware or self aware. However, it's inclusive and we are made in the image of God, whereby "it pleased the father (first/last cause - creator) to share his kingdom with all his children."

Aside from the books by those scientists mentioned earlier in this thread, I would recommend that atheists read this book
www.amazon.com...'___'-Sonoran-Desert/dp/1594772991/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249940334&sr=8-1
but don't judge it by it's cover or even some of the content.
It was one of THE best reads I've enjoyed to date and I've read quite a number of books, including a lot of popular science books on the new science.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by makinho21


What happened to the monkey picture?
The answer to your thread is NO!

reply to post by OmegaPoint


And the implications of this, is no less of a tenable hypothesis, than is the dead or purposeless indifferent materialist random universe model, and it's certainly either one or the other.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
When I look through the thread, and even at my own attempts to communicate, and it's plainly obvious that by no means is the atheist more intelligent. In fact, they don't even seem to grasp some of the concepts which were presented, preferring to just bypass them, and continue to insist that they are right, and are in the know.

Religion is religion, no matter how much you think about it, talk about it, or how much pseudoscience supports it. This is why your words rarely get past the front door with atheists. We're very adept, if nothing else, at seeing religion and faith for what they are.
So it's less of a "we don't understand what you're saying" and more of a "we don't care because we've seen this before".


And aside from that, I'm sure you know that 4-5 atheists on an internet forum is hardly enough to form an accurate conclusion on all atheists (which is what you're doing).

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Intelligence and ignorance cannot go together.

They most certainly can!
Just ask Albert Einstein when he was 5 .

reply to post by TruthParadox

Again, I made another post after that, clarifying the position myself and others are making and you post as if it wasn't even there.

I'm offering up some ideas, and they are dismissed out of hand with "we've seen it all before". That's ignorant.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Again, I made another post after that, clarifying the position myself and others are making and you post as if it wasn't even there.

I'm offering up some ideas, and they are dismissed out of hand with "we've seen it all before". That's ignorant.

The problem is not that you're offering ideas, the problem is that you're passing them off as fact. I've already said in this thread, I'm willing to consider many possibilities. But just because something is, perhaps, possible, does not mean that it is probable. And that's why faith must come in to support a theory such as the one you suggest. There simply isn't enough evidence to support it as fact, or even deem it remotely probable for that matter. Faith is needed to fill in the gaps.

At the same time, I'm not saying you're wrong either..
I'm just saying I've seen a lot of 'ideas' about how the Universe works, and they all have something in common: lack of proof.
For this reason alone, I'm skeptical of anyone who thinks they have the answers.

It takes just as much faith to hold the alternative viewpoint, that it's a braindead inanimate materialist monist randomly generated freak coincidence.

I think the evidence stacks up quite favorably for the God hypothesis, and a monistic idealism (consciousness is primary).

The only problem I really have with atheists, is how smart they THINK they are!