Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

reply to post by Astyanax


I intended for there to be a little venom I do believe that those who the most proselytizing, fanatical and literal with regards to their religious beliefs are typically those who follow in blind faith.

Blind faith, to me, is something that intelligent people are incapable of.

Those who embrace a belief in 'something more' can be of all intelligences. Those that believe in something that is written in a book, by somebody they have never met, about people they have never met, about a time they have never lived, are typically 'followers'.

Those who are intelligent do not just accept what they are told. They like to rationalise, ponder and so on. Those very qualities are what i believe turn intellectuals away from organised religion to either their own agnostic beliefs or atheism.

Cheers!

Brad

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Also not a "belief" for me. And the scene with the pinball is funny, because that is the only question the father spoke to me with "words". My vision was nothing more than that question being asked to me in the context of "Do you want it to end", and I said no just like the movie.

As for atheists, I just chalk it up to me reaping what I sowed. Since I use to make the exact same wrong arguments before I had my experience, it's like I'm arguing with myself from a few years back. And it's extra frustrating because I am confronted constantly with how wrong and narrow minded I was back then. I said the same things, thought the same things and so forth. Nothing less than the personal experience I had would have changed me either honestly. I figure it is my own personal form of hell to have to deal with my old self.

Except for the monkey person. I was not like that and never that bad. I was more like a welfard or turkey. I didn't hate, I just thought it was dumb fairy tales/mind control.

I found that nothing is actually hidden at all. Just people don't really look at things very deeply. See what you want to see.

I was personally just given understanding directly, and shown that idols and such are not important, but what they express is. I tend to see the world in terms of equations and actions, rather than focusing on the variables themselves. But society itself tends to put all the focus on the variables and ignores the underlying equations/actions of things.

Pretty much anytime I have a question, I'm given the understanding. But I can't ask what tommorrows lottery number is and stuff. I really look for new questions to ask, because I've basically ran out.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I did not start the thread. I am not responsible for its title.

You agreed with it in your first post. And the thread itself is a bit ironic/oxymoronic in itself, because to look at group things up in a such a way is ignorant. I'd have the same opinion about that no matter which way the order was, because it's just a low level of thinking and ignorant in itself.

While you may not be the worse for sure, it is very common for atheists to present and pretend that they are by default smarter because they don't believe in "fairy tales". They claim to be more "rational" and so forth, and "critical thinkers". But it is nothing more than claims and biases. You also put in some jabs here and there. Common theme, very common.

It's all insulting. When a person says something, they are not just making a single statement, they also imply many things in the process. Like when a religious person says people are going to eternal hell. They are not just saying that about hell, they are also implying that god is worse than people like Stalin/Hitler.

How would you like it if people found the dumbest atheists possible and started to group you up with them? You wouldn't, and I wouldn't do it because it's ignorant.

Outside that, I'm just not going to bother anymore. Just turning into a finger pointing match anymore. I enjoyed the debates and discussion, and a few jabs here and there are ok. But the debate and discussion is gone, and all we are left with are the jabs, and that is my queue to leave.

Originally posted by Crying-Lightning
Yeah, but it's proven that religous people, people that pray regulary, are more stress-free than those that don't.

So are people that smoke crack.
Just sayin'.


On a serious note, I'd like to discuss what the study (if true) suggests and what it doesn't. It suggests that atheists may have a higher IQ (on average). But IQ, at best, does not measure all forms of intelligence. Someone could be considered the greatest artistic genius in the world and yet score rather low on an IQ test, for example. I happen to believe that intelligence comes in many forms, and is too flexible to be solely determined by a single test.
An IQ test is good for fast computer-like thinkers (and perhaps atheists are more likely to fall under this group).
But what about slow refined thinkers, who may be more likely to invent something extraordinary or make a great impact on society?

Which one of the above would you consider intelligent? Aren't they both?
Which method of thinking is "more" intelligent? And who are we to decide that?


I think these questions should be looked at a bit deeper.

Originally posted by 5thElement

Originally posted by 297GT
If you look at the Bible it specifically mentions to question everything....

Yep, question everything but God, that's a big no-no, lol.

And since he IS everything how you can possibly question anything ?

???
Huh?

I question God daily and some times hourly
Lord why do I have to be here, why did you do that, why cant I punch this guy in the nose, why did Eve eat that apple.

Religious people and stereo typers would be shocked that I argue and question the King, but he is my maker, friend , father....etc
Who hasn't ever been cross and mad with there father, mate, boss etc.
I aint perfect, I am (trapped as) a human...
His love and grace is greater than my human emotions and forgives me....

The thing with faith over religion is I have a relationship with God not church or priests or the pope or etc etc
The stereo type of a Christian is starting to grow old. As is alot of churches, denominations, leaders and alike.

One line in the good book says not to cast your pearls before the thieves, but anther line says to tell the whole world the about God, which is greater?


I wont 'bible bash' anyone but some non-believers, WOW they sure know how to bash the bible and the people who believe it. Yet fail to see the irony of it.

Be a fisherman.

reply to post by TruthParadox


good point Paradox. I also tend to think similarly to that. IQ is not completely encompassing.

I watched a documentary last year from the BBC that dealt with finding the "smartest" person.

They had a variety of people:

painter
"genius" youth pianist
stay at home mom (I think)
physicist
and a few others I can't remember

They were put through a series of "tests" - some like puzzle solving the physicist took the cake, but others, like simple problem solving, the mom dominated and so forth.

Very interesting.

If I could find I link I would share it with you

As to your question...which is considered intelligence? Well from what I saw in the documentary, both are. And at times, both aren't.

reply to post by badmedia


I think you'll find nobody has attacked attacked followers on an individual basis. They are attacking the intelligence of followers on a general basis. Therefore, for somebody to assume that you have a lower IQ just because you are a believer (hopefully though, not a believer in what someone else has written), then they themselves should be tarnished with the same brush, because they have misinterpreted the data provided and assumed "all religious believers have low IQ".

All it is saying is a generalization.

I question God daily and some times hourly
Lord why do I have to be here, why did you do that, why cant I punch this guy in the nose, why did Eve eat that apple.

Religious people and stereo typers would be shocked that I argue and question the King, but he is my maker, friend , father....etc
Who hasn't ever been cross and mad with there father, mate, boss etc.
I aint perfect, I am (trapped as) a human...
His love and grace is greater than my human emotions and forgives me....

The thing with faith over religion is I have a relationship with God not church or priests or the pope or etc etc
The stereo type of a Christian is starting to grow old. As is alot of churches, denominations, leaders and alike.

One line in the good book says not to cast your pearls before the thieves, but anther line says to tell the whole world the about God, which is greater?


I wont 'bible bash' anyone but some non-believers, WOW they sure know how to bash the bible and the people who believe it. Yet fail to see the irony of it.

Be a fisherman.

This is a great post,I agree with you!
In the past,I've gotten mad at God several times.I even threw my Bible
across the room once.Because my carnal nature was fighting against
my spiritual nature.God was not doing what I wanted,I wanted my way!

I know a lot of spiritual people who don't go to church.It is really
difficult to find a church that preaches and teaches from God's word.
Too many churches are hung up on their doctrines and not what the
Bible says.I go to a baptist church and I don't agree with everything
they preach.But, I keep this to myself.

I read my Bible and take it literally,my church wants to put too many
hidden meaning in the passages.I remember my sunday school teacher
saying:"That's what it says,but that's not what it means." I don't agree!
I go to church every week because I need to be around other people
who believe in God.The ungodly will not help you grow spiritually,they
will hinder you.

I would rather be counted among the poor and uneducated,then live
like these ungodly,psuedo-superior intellects who don't know what
really awaits them in the near future! I know what awaits them,they
don't.

reply to post by mamabeth


So, do you believe Jesus performed actual miracles then? That he actually turn like 2 fish and a loaf of bread into enough food to feed 5000, that he turnt water to wine and they he healed a paralysed man?

If you answered yes to the above question.

Please tell me. Why would an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent being, turn water to wine for example, but then not stop the Holocaust?

VERY ARBITRARY INDEED

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by mamabeth

 

So, do you believe Jesus performed actual miracles then? That he actually turn like 2 fish and a loaf of bread into enough food to feed 5000, that he turnt water to wine and they he healed a paralysed man?

If you answered yes to the above question.

Please tell me. Why would an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent being, turn water to wine for example, but then not stop the Holocaust?

VERY ARBITRARY INDEED

Yes ,I do believe in the miracles our Lord did while on earth.

In my opinion,the holocaust was the birthing pains for Israel.
Jews from all over the earth are slowly making Israel their home.
Organizations such as,Wings of Eagles,are helping to re-locate
jews to their homeland.

If there should be another holocaust,itwon't be the jews.I think
the next one will involve the christians. The jews,never again!
I have noticed a lot of christian bashing on this web and others.

The monkey that started this thread is one of them.He,in my
opinion,is an agent of chaos.He spends too much time,effort,
posts and threads on topics he does'nt believe in.I feel his agenda
is to divide and conquer any religious theology anywhere using
this web and possibly others to spread his distorted views.

reply to post by badmedia

While you may not be the worse for sure, it is very common for atheists to present and pretend that they are by default smarter because they don't believe in "fairy tales". They claim to be more "rational" and so forth, and "critical thinkers". But it is nothing more than claims and biases. You also put in some jabs here and there. Common theme, very common.

and isn't it also a very common theme for the faithful to imply - if not state outright - that atheists are less than moral creatures?

that they are lacking?

stained somehow?

out and out evil?

damned?

at the very, very least - pretty golly gosh darn dumb to not believe?

now there's some rational thought we can all respect and admire

How would you like it if people found the dumbest atheists possible and started to group you up with them? You wouldn't, and I wouldn't do it because it's ignorant.

nobody likes to be called stupid - it's true

not even us agnostics

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Yes, it is a common theme and it's wrong for them to do so as well. If you flipped the sides around I'd have equal amount of disagreement. It's just a low level of thinking to view people in terms of groups like that.

The back and forth on those kinds of levels is disgusting IMO.

reply to post by Toughiv


Painting people 1 at a time, or 1000's at a time is not much different IMO. I was painted either way.

That is like going into a city and arresting all males between the ages of 20-30, and then telling them - what are you complaining about, we didn't pick you out individually!



[edit on 8/5/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

The back and forth on those kinds of levels is disgusting IMO.

it's annoying - but useful

this kind of back and forth you all are having now (I - the lowly agnostic - am little more than a member of the studio audience ) is different from the one you might have had 50 years ago - and that one quite different form the one that may or may not have happened 50 years before that...

it might be ugly - but it makes everybody think

meanwhile - some of us maybe are waiting for you all to take each other out - free up some resources for the rest of us

just a thought

:-)

Originally posted by jd140
double post

[edit on 27-7-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


The "end" will not be violent at all.

reply to post by badmedia


well - so much for humor

The "end" will not be violent at all.

and I laugh out loud

some pretty bold and extravagant promises have been made

I guess we'll see - eventually :-)

I have to say - history does not give me much of a reason to believe this part

and unless you have certain knowledge - something I too can know for sure - best we end this here

I may be uncertain - and not altogether bright - but I have been able to piece together a few things for myself

I'm going to blunder on ahead on my own

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


The time before the "end" has certainly been violent, so i understand where you are coming from. But as long as the fighting continues etc, there will never be an end. Thus, when it does end, it won't be violent.

Make sense?

reply to post by badmedia


Violent to the ego self and to the collective unconscious - and thherefore it will likely be welcomed with a voilent outward physical rebellion in many circles..

Then again, just watch the news. Many people are cracking up, people without any sort of spiritual base or authentic theological frame of reference.