It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NASA Astrobiologists Debunk Aliens and UFOs In One Paragraph = Unscientific

page: 8
4
<< 5  6  7   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:35 PM
link   
reply to post by ufo reality
 


From the OP:



and no one has ever produced an artifact or a


The expert has no clue to the content of "UFO Hunters" which had the
artifact of a 1943 Nazi saucer compass.

And ask Bill Lyne about all the high voltage parts lying around as
scrap after one of these non existent saucers/Foos crash to the
ground.

I suppose the free energy scientists don't exist either.
And Alamogordo,NM never had German saucer pilot trainers.
Walk around on Earth for awhile, New Mexico perhaps.




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
I suppose the free energy scientists don't exist either.
And Alamogordo,NM never had German saucer pilot trainers.
Walk around on Earth for awhile, New Mexico perhaps.


Listening to these mainstream scientists -- especially from NASA -- is comparable to watching the news on television: In both cases, you're never going to get the whole story.

The scientists who know the whole story are never heard about on popularscience.com, and they're employed for secret black ops projects by the CIA and NSA in most cases. The others who know the "whole" story just don't want to speak about these topics in public because they challenge the conventional, materialistic model of reality and they'd get ridiculed.

With that said, thank God for people like Edgar Mitchell.



[edit on 23-7-2009 by hermantinkly]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:57 PM
link   
reply to post by hermantinkly
 


Do you mean the Edgar Mitchell who claims no personal knowledge about any of what he says? The one who only recounts things he's been told by others. The one who has no evidence for the things he believes? That Edgar Mitchell?

Sure, he walked on the Moon. A heroic deed. But that does not make his opinions the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[edit on 7/23/2009 by Phage]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Phage But that does not make his opinions the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Just curious then... just who would you take as a reliable source? Seems even now Buzz Aldrin's stability is in question since he made the monolith comment

I have a hunch nothing short of a saucer landing on your lawn and the alien zapping your pet dog with a ray gun would convince you



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by zorgon
 

I said nothing about reliability. I said that Mitchell has formed his opinions based on hearsay and his own beliefs, not on evidence or first hand experience. I'm sure that Mitchell believes the things he says are true but that does not make them true.

Anyone who uses what Aldrin said about the object on Phobos to question his stability is not paying attention to what he said. There is indeed a structure (a geological formation) on Phobos which could be a monolith ( "single stone", is the meaning of the word). That is all he said about it, other than it was made by "the universe...or god". To me, that means he believes it is a natural formation.


[edit on 7/23/2009 by Phage]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Phage But that does not make his opinions the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


I have a hunch nothing short of a saucer landing on your lawn and the alien zapping your pet dog with a ray gun would convince you




it doesn't need to be drastic like that. They're many things that would convince us without a doubt. Like a huge spacecraft hovering over a big city, say 100 meters of altitude, with national tv chains filming and broadcasting it live.

Or they could simply land somewhere in the middle of new york and start walking around. If they are "shy" then they could land in your backyard and give you their code of alphabet, family pictures, pictures of their own planet, concrete objects of alien origin with a message to show them etc.

Short of that, it's all hear-say and witnesses not sure of what they are seeing and blurry pictures/video of something up the sky during nighttime. But sometimes it's much worse than that, you hear stories of underground alien bases, people going up in the sky inside a saucer, even book describing all the alien races surrounding us, forgive me if i laugh hard when i read that but for but me it's nothing else than humor.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 10:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Xtraeme
 


The fact is that we are not being told the truth about anything.


While there are certainly examples of manipulation of data to say we're not being told the truth about anything is a stretch.

Sure it can be said we're not being told "the truth" because "the truth" of what people are experiencing, with regards to UFOs, is largely unknown.


Look at the economy, Berneke, all the evidence of back room deals, the suppression of information, that has nothing to do with national security, but is just embarrassing. Unemployment numbers. The government is manipulating things right in front of our faces.


Sure we're not being told "the truth" about the economy because the people trying to plug the holes and evaluate the damage are still largely clueless about the severity of the situation. They simply have no idea whether or not the proposed fixes will suture the wound.

Imagine if Obama were to stand in front of the Washington Press Corp and say, "We don't know if we can fix the economy, the whole system may be broken, but we're doing our best to patch it up to get it off life-support." It would be utterly irresponsible and cause mass panic.

Is it a true statement? Very likely, yes. However since Obama's in a role of great responsibility it's his job as the President to not be divisive and reduce emotional responses from the public.


The proof of the foul-up or conspiracy cover up, is the same thing in my mind. Because if it was covered up properly then we wouldn't know nothing from nothing. The reason to believe it was a cover-up is because the fouled up to begin with. Whether it was intentional or not.


I think there may be a semantic difference in our concept of "foul-up." It sounds like you're interpreting "foul-up" to mean "screwed-up cover-up."

Whereas when I say "foul-up" I mean the subject of UFOs is not given proper attention, time, funds, analysis because people are simply misinformed, disbelieving due to dogma, confused by ambiguous terminology (i.e. UFO has far too many definitions) and / or unaware of the quality of the better cases.

Even the anecdotal accounts are astounding. I challenge any diehard skeptibunker to sit down with some of the more sincere people who have reported seeing something highly bizarre. It's very common for these people who report UFOs to have good jobs / backgrounds that demonstrate integrity and reliability. What's more so many of these people seem genuinely confused by their observation and often want closure on what it is they witnessed. I've found because of this many are willing to consider alternate explanations so long as it fits the facts of the observation.

But that's besides the point. It's useful to distinguish "unintentional foul-up" from "screwed-up cover-up foul-up."

Though your point about "screwed-up cover-up" indicating not only "foul up" but also "conspiracy cover-up" is an interesting point. Awhile back someone said to me,


The incompetence of government is our only real chance at safety. These people are the reason I don't believe the government has covered up UFO's or [conducted] a massive 9/11 conspiracy. They aren't competent. They can't find their own ass using both hands, much less scratch it without getting caught. The fixed ratio of stupidity to malice being constant means the damage these people can do will be short term. (Short term being years though.) Much the same way the malice/stupidity ratio lead to the Nazi's being responsible for the very mistakes that lead to their defeat.


I countered saying,


"So let me get this straight, you state as a fact that the US government is incompetent and that because of this incompetence they can't maintain a conspiracy worth dirt. If this is your theory what's to make you say that Roswell incident wasn't a royal US screw-up?"


I then went on to enumerate a number of cases where there appear to be questionable foul-ups. What's interesting is this information can be used as evidence in favor of "conspiracy cover-up" and the fact that the "cover-up" was "fouled up". Somewhat paradoxically it can also be used as evidence that it's all an "unintentional foul-up."

For instance lets consider the Roswell case. If the Roswell case was a "screwed-up cover-up foul-up" then many people would have expected that once the lid was blown by Moore / Berlitz / Friedman it would have resulted in disclosure of the alien space-ship. However this never happened despite investigations by the Office of the President and many other committees.

This is what lends credence to the idea that it's an "unintentional foul-up" or a "screwed-up cover-up foul-up" of something other than alien visitation. In the case of Roswell I think it's fairly explicit that it was a counter-intelligence project to provide cover for Mogul balloons.

The same pattern of argumentation can be used for other "screwed-up cover-up foul-ups."

So I think it's fair to say we're seeing many "unintentional foul-ups" and perhaps an occasional "screwed-up cover-up foul-up." Unfortunately using logic we can't infer specifically what is being covered-up. Rather we can only infer a set of things that might be covered-up.


We are not being told the truth, to think other wise is completely dismissing all the empirical evidence that is plaster in front of our faces everyday.

Now I'm not saying that the conspiracy theories are correct or wrong, because we simply don't know. For all we know they could be botching cover-up's to distract people from something else they are doing.

One thing we do know, we are not being told the truth about a lot of things.


Absolutely there are examples where the American public has been outright lied to by military intelligence. This is why submitting FOIA requests, visiting reading rooms, and the archives is useful to the study of UFOs. It helps dispel myths and puts more of the puzzle pieces in the right place.

However it's imminently possible there is no cover-up of "true UFOs" (unknown phenomena) or of "alien spacecrafts" but rather a cover-up of clandestine operations where the military branches of the government are using UFOs as a cover for TS flights and our illegal incursions in to friendly & enemy airspace.

Personally I doubt the government is covering up alien spacecrafts, at least not in the traditional sense. More likely the groups originally studying the subject had preconceived notions about what the objects weren't and it clouded their judgment. Resulting in conclusions more based on authority than on observation and reason (ie/ the Condon Report, Hynek's take on Quintanilla, Gen. Vanderberg's take on 'The Estimate of the Situation').

There's a lot of data supporting this argument.

I highly recommend you read the grand foul-up vs conspiracy cover-up thread to get a better sense of how the evidence stacks up.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 10:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
it doesn't need to be drastic like that.


Yes it does... for Phage



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:24 PM
link   
reply to post by ufo reality
 


People, you have to understand that NASA has a standing order to conceal any and all evidence of extra terrestrial life. You can look this up yourself. It's a rule. They will NEVER willingly reveal evidence of extra terrestrial life and the lie is different on every level. Notice how he said images on the internet are mostly faked. Remember, if even one of these cases is true, then it's a real phenomenon. I have trouble believing that absolutely everybody who ever observed a UFO is full of it. It's true that many cases can be dismissed as natural, but the trouble is, some of them can't. Some of these cases are so completely unexplainable that all anybody who wants to deny them can do is ignore them completely. If it wasn't a real phenomenon, it wouldn't be so prevalent. Until people start to demand the real truth, they will have to deal with being dismissively lied to.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:33 PM
link   
GEESH....here we go again with the UFO proof in the pudding question.

Wrap your mind around one of the following possibilities;

One; we are totally alone, and will never find or know of anything else in the universe period. We will go into the long goodnight kicking and screaming for something to save us...and nothing will come!

Two; we are not alone, but, are so far apart, and unaware of each other, that we will never make contact.

Three; we are not alone, and something is aware of our presence in this dimension of time and space, but, will never openly contact us. They are screwing with us, pulling off outrageous pranks ( crop circles, cow mutilations, fly overs, etc. ) and laughing their asses off watching us react!

Four; we are not alone, and are the direct result of meddling in the evolution of something or the other...and are an abandoned genetic dead end, and left to our own ultimate demise. In effect; orphans!

Five; are an intergalactic aberration, that has no real purpose or point for exiting! We just think we do... ( this is probably closer to the true answer )

Six; our existence and reality isn't real. This is but a errant ripple floating on the cosmic tides own existentialism.

Believe what you want...because I know you will no matter what anyone posts. No problem.
See ya!



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 01:00 PM
link   
It took age for me to get a tough skin when dealing with skeptics.

I have come to the conclusion they have there rights to believe as they chose.

As my family that travels the Universe says about the human Scientist,

You try to hard through Science to prove things just use logic and common sense the answers are the simplist the ones you always overlook.

I would change that last word since my observations while here to "deny."

Grandma is being naughty and all I care to say is when your time comes to know you &&)()(%$%^&#(&^^%#$#%^^&^%&



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 11:22 AM
link   
reply to post by CidCaldensfey
 


just because there is no proof to support it, doesnt mean there is proof to deny it.

also, proof can mean many things.

to the enlightened, the metaphysical world is completely scientific and measurable, and ufos are understood in this light and that is completely undenieable to anyone who is aware of this.

there are countless NASA testimonies of completely obvious barrages of light objects moving in and out of our atmosphere.



also, who is to say that different alien races didnt come down and give us different earth races (white, asian, etc.) no proof either way.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 11:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by ufo reality
astrobiology.nasa.gov...

Ask a NASA Astrobiologist FAQ:


Have aliens visited Earth? Are UFOs real?
No, there is no evidence for visits of intelligent aliens to Earth, either now or in the past. The are many claims concerning UFOs and aliens, but no evidence to support these claims. The photos that are posted on the Internet are mostly fakes, and no one has ever produced an artifact or any other tangible scientific evidence of UFOs or aliens. One of strongest cases against the reality of these claims is that the group of people who spend the most time observing the sky are amateur astronomers, and they don’t report UFO sightings. If there were any evidence of aliens, astrobiologists would be among to first to hail such a discovery and analyze the data. However, there is no evidence that withstands scientific investigation. If you are still interested, you can use the search engine to find posted answers to specific questions about aliens and UFOs.



Nice find. I'm keeping this link on my desktop.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 04:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by Syrus Magistus
People, you have to understand that NASA has a standing order to conceal any and all evidence of extra terrestrial life. You can look this up yourself. It's a rule. They will NEVER willingly reveal evidence of extra terrestrial life and the lie is different on every level. ...


Sy, I don't HAVE to 'understand' ANY of the baseless drivel you seem to base your central life's purpose on .... but I am curious about what you think passes for 'evidence' for this claim. Where do I look it up? On the Internet? Oh, wow, let's all lie down and sing kum-bah-yah until the space brothers beam us up.

Evidence, Sy. Reality, Sy. Where's yours?



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 04:46 PM
link   
To be honest, putting all cover ups aside. Why would a mainstream scientist answer any other way ?

It doesn't matter what he believes. He like most of us needs to make a living.

Truth, lie ?
All any relatively intelligent person can tell is there are so many contradictory
theories out there, combined with so many debunked proofs (many of which are still being touted AS proof).
Any potentially real evidence is buried beneath so many layers of junk, speculation, paranoid fantasies and downright lies.
Any mainstream scientist, knowing this, doesn't need to be so much covering up...as covering his @ss.
Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes it's just common sense.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 05:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Syrus Magistus
People, you have to understand that NASA has a standing order to conceal any and all evidence of extra terrestrial life. You can look this up yourself. It's a rule. They will NEVER willingly reveal evidence of extra terrestrial life and the lie is different on every level. ...


Sy, I don't HAVE to 'understand' ANY of the baseless drivel you seem to base your central life's purpose on .... but I am curious about what you think passes for 'evidence' for this claim. Where do I look it up? On the Internet? Oh, wow, let's all lie down and sing kum-bah-yah until the space brothers beam us up.

Evidence, Sy. Reality, Sy. Where's yours?



Well, what do you think about the following Act written in section 303 of the NASA Space Act signed in 1958, which states:

"Information obtained or developed by the administrator in the performance of his functions under the Act shall be made available for public inspection except, (A) information authorized or required by federal statue to be withheld, (B) and information classified to protect the national securtiy."

history.nasa.gov...


[edit on 27-7-2009 by hermantinkly]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 04:07 AM
link   
reply to post by bl4ke360
 

Over the years there has been some good evidence of aliens and ufos but the goverment has moved very quickly to hide or destroy that evidence.The aliens have moved even quicker to hide and destroy evidence also.The monitring alility of the us goverment is very effective and employs thousands of people within there programs including there vast disinfomation program.There are many security protocols in place which includes all media ,scientific,goverment,military,police ,medical,research ,education and public organisations..


[edit on 28-7-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 10:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by GORGANTHIUM
reply to post by bl4ke360
 

Over the years there has been some good evidence of aliens and ufos but the goverment has moved very quickly to hide or destroy that evidence.The aliens have moved even quicker to hide and destroy evidence also.The monitring alility of the us goverment is very effective and employs thousands of people within there programs including there vast disinfomation program.There are many security protocols in place which includes all media ,scientific,goverment,military,police ,medical,research ,education and public organisations..


[edit on 28-7-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]


[any proofs of what you advance by any chances?!]

har har HAR!

yeah right.
Like our government is able to manage a grandiose task like that, forget it. The government isn't able to manage anything efficiently, even less secret programs (they don't exist so you know...)



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 5  6  7   >>

log in

join