Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
I do not know how to respond to someone who's counter-point is always a bible passage. It is very frustrating to have a religious book be compared to
the scientific method without applying the scientific method to that religious book.
Basically your argument for not applying Science to Consciousness is that it cannot be done. You say it cannot be done so you refuse to do it.
Very limited thinking.
If you asked the right questions about a "soul" or "spirit" or "consciousness" you will get farther than "I am not going to try".
No, I came to these understandings
after years of work, thought and study. And now you are expecting and asking me to put that understanding
into a spoonful sized paragraph that you can accept and eat.
I can't do it like that. In order to understand, it will mean you will have to take a very deep personal journey to understanding many things that
I have come to learn. It's not just a single argument that can be made, it's an understanding.
You don't just start out teaching a 5 year old college level quantum physics. That child will have to learn many basic things before he can come to
grasp and understand quantum physics. But yet, this is exactly what you ask me to do, you ask me to tell you about matters of consciousness and how
logic itself works.
I make my entire living based on my ability to create logic. It's what I do day after day after day. And I am taken care of very nicely because
of that ability. I spent years working on these problems, and had mapped out just about everything in purpose logically for the universe in relation
to how understanding and intelligence is achieved. However, there is 1 barrier you can not get beyond, and that is that the program itself will
never have free will, choice or consciousness. Because the program is 100% from this universe and how this universe works.
Meanwhile, if you take a look at science, it completely ignores choice, free will and consciousness. Physics does not include consciousness. Why
not? Because choice means something is not repeatable over and over, and the scientific method itself breaks down as a result.
A rocket is all of this universe. It has no free will. Because of that, we can introduce the correct actions in order to get the reactions we
want. Because of this, it gives us control/power. If that rocket had a choice in the matter, guess what? You have no idea where it is going to
go, because you have lost control.
You can add logic to that, and have it follow that logic and adjust for things, no problem. But it will always do so because the programmers logic
told it too, it never makes a choice.
And this stuff is expressed in the bible even. I didn't find these things out from the bible, I found them out from experience and working on such
things. But I'm sorry, I can't put over 10 years of work experience and understandings gained from logic, it's limits and so forth in a small
paragraph, anymore than you can tell someone a physics equation and they will actually understand things.
I've tried to show you things. Such as the fact
you can not generate a random number with logic. That's a fact, widely known and
scientifically accepted/proven. And yet, at the same time the only way we can even simulate and give the illusion of choice is to use a random
number. We can generate random numbers that people don't know, we call them pseudo-random numbers and they serve the purpose fine. But they are
a well known illusion
Take step 1, ask the questions. Then, come to understand the answers, rather than accepting what others say. Then maybe you can hear me.
If you will eat it, then it will be feed to you. As long as you are asking for people to feed you, that is what you are going to get. If you
actually want to understand, then you will have to seek and feed yourself. The door can be opened for you, you can be directed to it, but at some
point you've got to get up and actually walk through it if you want to see whats on the other side of it.
The best I can really do for you is to point out the problems in what is said, in hopes it will plant a question(seed) in your head, which may one day
grow into an understanding for you. Can't remove one from a box if you don't first tear down that box.
So, when you or anyone else can come up with the logic to generate a truly random number which is not predictable, which would be a demonstration of
choice then give me a call and tell me I was wrong.
RANDOM.ORG offers true random numbers to anyone on the Internet. The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than
the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs. People use RANDOM.ORG for holding drawings, lotteries and sweepstakes, to
drive games and gambling sites, for scientific applications and for art and music. The service has existed since 1998 and was built and is being
operated by Mads Haahr of the School of Computer Science and Statistics at Trinity College, Dublin in Ireland.
There are services which are needed in order to provide unknown factors to put into the equation to generate random numbers that another computer
What are you?
[edit on 7/12/2009 by badmedia]