Two gay men kicked out of Chico's Tacos restaurant for kissing

Just found this, goes to show that theres two sides to every story:

According to an ABC-7 report there were protests outside the restaurant last Friday, with people turning out to argue both sides. The security company handed out letters to the crowd on the day, which read: “We had a group of individuals, who appeared intoxicated, enter the establishment, engage in disorderly conduct, claim discrimination, and gain sympathy with the public by having the community believe it was only a gentle kiss”.

Link

If this is to be believed then it appears that we have a group of people being drunk & disorderly and then when asked to leave they pull the whole sexuality card!

It also explains, to the poster that asked, why the entire group of 5 were asked to leave not just the kissing couple.

[edit on 13/7/09 by Death_Kron]

Originally posted by fleabit
Man and a woman kissing? That's natural. Two of the same sex kissing? Not natural. No, I wouldn't want my children watching two men OR two woman kissing. When they are older and know whats-what, not a big a deal, but to expose them to that before they do, I don't agree with this.

You basically summed up everything I've said in 4 lines

A man and a women kissing is natural as you say, a man & man or a women & women is not.

I feel that it could be damaging to a child to witness.

reply to post by Death_Kron


In answer to your question about heterosexuals kissing…anyone displaying overt sexual behaviour is not particularly nice to see at all. But a kiss…it’s sweet. Don’t forget, homosexuals see it constantly, everywhere. Rather see a kiss than foaming at the mouth over some nonsense...lol It just is, it goes hardly noticed unless someone is slobbering over someone else.

Just to enlarge on this subject, if you are born homosexual you have a fight on your hands from a young age. It is an internal fight and it’s about finding and developing your own self worth in a world that basically says (as evidenced by many posts) that your natural born being is disgusting, aberrant, the greatest sin to their God, sick, vile, unnatural and any expressions of affection are never to be allowed to be seen in public. How would anyone heterosexual like to live like that? See, people react and don’t try to put themselves in the other person’s scenario…out of fear often.

Imagine a world where the majority were homosexual.
You grow up knowing you are different and at some age you find yourself attracted to girls…but everyone around you is going out with boys…so you have to hide your sexuality as you discover eventually that what you are feeling is called heterosexuality and it is frowned upon. But somehow you meet a girl and maybe you live together.
You can’t show the world your partner with pride as you are not allowed to marry as that is against the church laws…let alone what you will be told about God’s laws, as you are going to burn in hell forever….just for being yourself.
Imagine that you go out with your wife/girlfriend and you cannot give her a quick kiss on the cheek, hold hands, hug or display any affection…not just for one day but every day of your life…. Would you feel comfortable with that?
Imagine that every newspaper, magazine, TV programme and film that you watched for entertainment was purely about homosexual lives, dreams and aspirations and that heterosexuals were never represented let alone given role models…how would that feel?
Imagine your wife is laying ill in hospital and her family will not allow you to go visit…because you are a ‘dirty heterosexual’…would you feel that was good and fair?
Imagine (God forbid) that she then died and you were not allowed to go to her funeral…would that seem wonderful and fair?
Imagine that everyone else got tax breaks because they were ‘married’, or had children… but as a heterosexual you just had to pay your taxes equally and not get the benefits….would that feel good?

For the people scared that just seeing two men kissing once or a million times will miraculously drive their children gay…read this paragraph….slowly.
If homosexuals are bombarded from birth with billions of images of heterosexuality in every newspaper, TV show, film, book, magazine…..and see most of the (heterosexual) people around them kissing, being affectionate etc and it does not turn them suddenly and miraculously homosexual…then why on earth would the reverse happen?
Is anyone starting to get it yet?

reply to post by oneclickaway


It's strange that you posted the experiences and feelings about a homosexual growing up because I've literally just read the following:

Gay and lesbian youth bear an increased risk of suicide, substance abuse, school problems, and isolation because of a "hostile and condemning environment, verbal and physical abuse, rejection and isolation from family and peers".[118] Further, LGB youths are more likely to report psychological and physical abuse by parents or caretakers, and more sexual abuse.

Link

I feel for people in that situation. I can't imagine their childhoods and teen years would be very easy and if they are genuinely naturally gay (so to speak) then it isn't their fault.

However I have just found this:

The American Psychiatric Association reports "There are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology [cause or origin] for homosexuality." The APA further states "No specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse."

All indications are that homosexuality is a choice. Making a choice is a decision in the mind that too often originates in the heart from feelings. However, laws and moral standards are not set in place based on feelings or emotions. The solid foundation for our laws and standards are based on God's principles

Link

And in regards to:

For the people scared that just seeing two men kissing once or a million times will miraculously drive their children gay…read this paragraph….slowly.If homosexuals are bombarded from birth with billions of images of heterosexuality in every newspaper, TV show, film, book, magazine…..and see most of the (heterosexual) people around them kissing, being affectionate etc and it does not turn them suddenly and miraculously homosexual…then why on earth would the reverse happen?

The only comment I could make really is that although I understand your point you haven't thought about the fact that children are basically... children.

They are gullible, immature and are prone to imitating other people and their actions.

[edit on 13/7/09 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 13/7/09 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by Death_Kron

Regarding this: For the people scared that just seeing two men kissing once or a million times will miraculously drive their children gay…read this paragraph….slowly.If homosexuals are bombarded from birth with billions of images of heterosexuality in every newspaper, TV show, film, book, magazine…..and see most of the (heterosexual) people around them kissing, being affectionate etc and it does not turn them suddenly and miraculously homosexual…then why on earth would the reverse happen?

The only comment I could make really is that although I understand your point you haven't thought about the fact that children are basically... children. They are gullible, immature and are prone to imitating other people and their actions.

Yes, precisely and homosexual children are also impressionable and prone to imitation! That is the point! Homosexual kids are bombarded with imagery and do not turn heterosexual.

reply to post by Death_Kron

The American Psychiatric Association reports "There are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology [cause or origin] for homosexuality." The APA further states "No specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse." All indications are that homosexuality is a choice. Making a choice is a decision in the mind that too often originates in the heart from feelings. However, laws and moral standards are not set in place based on feelings or emotions. The solid foundation for our laws and standards are based on God's principles

Well that is laughable. Any Association that is not making a scientific case but putting forward an agenda for God and public morals has instantly discredited themsleves and that has no basis for appraisal even.
I would worry about the psychiatric advice they give if they believe that a 5 or 7 yr old is able to make a 'choice' about something they feel but do not even know what it is until much older. God give me strength.

Does anyone have an explanation as to why, if homosexuality is so "normal", why has it been considered a deviant abnormal practice since the beginning of time? Why NOW are we supposed to be zombified into going with the flow and believing homosexuality is "normal"? I've asked that question before, never seem to find anyone willing (or able) to respond.

reply to post by oneclickaway

Yes, precisely and homosexual children are also impressionable and prone to imitation! That is the point! Homosexual kids are bombarded with imagery and do not turn heterosexual.

Ah... Good point, I missed that one

Okay then, so lets look at it a different way.

Your either born heterosexual or a homosexual and that can't be changed.

So what are you saying then? The kid who was heterosexual as a child who "came out" as gay later on in life was in fact always a homosexual yet he surpressed his sexual desire for fear of ridicule?

Looking at it that way whoever "turns" gay or lesbian has in fact always had the same sexual orientation, just its been kept quiet.

This again points back to being born gay.

Only problem is there isn't any scientific evidence that supports this theory. A gay gene has not been proven to exist...

As I said in an earlier post from what I have seen with my own eyes I'm fairly certain you are born queer.

You would think evidence to support or dismiss this would have been found by now.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who honestly believes they choose to be gay. Or from someone who was heterosexual but then decided they wanted to be gay?

reply to post by Death_Kron

The American Psychiatric Association reports "There are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology [cause or origin] for homosexuality." The APA further states "No specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse."

All indications are that homosexuality is a choice. Making a choice is a decision in the mind that too often originates in the heart from feelings. However, laws and moral standards are not set in place based on feelings or emotions. The solid foundation for our laws and standards are based on God's principles

That is the sort of quote-mining garbage and filth spread by the "link" you so conveniently cited. IT IS A HATE-FILLED religious nutcase propoganda source!!!

The way you presented it, in the 'ex' tags, shows the obvious distortion that group went to...they deliberately take a sentence from the APA report, and argue from fallacy, with THEIR opinion....the phrase they use, "All indications are that homosexuality is a choice." is an example. The APA report says no such thing!!! THEY say it, THEY reach that 'conclusion', and present it as a 'fact'....it is disingenuous and deceitful to the extreme. Anyone who buys into it is either doing so because they are a bobbled-head who agrees with the religious overtones, or is just not capable of independent critical thinking.

reply to post by oneclickaway


Sorry I didn't mean to include the Christianity part, the quote was taken from a religious website.

The report they our citing however was wrote by The American Psychiatric Association. Link

Originally posted by Bombeni
Does anyone have an explanation as to why, if homosexuality is so "normal", why has it been considered a deviant abnormal practice since the beginning of time? Why NOW are we supposed to be zombified into going with the flow and believing homosexuality is "normal"? I've asked that question before, never seem to find anyone willing (or able) to respond.

Thats a good point, I was going to ask a similiar question about why up until fairly recently gay's were not allowed to join the armed forces.

I know the answer to that question seems obvious but I'm not so sure it is.

reply to post by oneclickaway


oneclick,

Please see my response. I had to do the truly distasteful duty of actully clicking on the 'link' in order to read the vile trash website, and see what they did...

Well that is laughable. Any Association that is not making a scientific case but putting forward an agenda for God and public morals has instantly discredited themsleves and that has no basis for appraisal even.

See? Based on the post from ATS member "death_kron", even you fell for it!!

The APA does NOT say anything of the sort, it is that sorry excuse for a website that spews the vitriol!!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'm sorry but if you look on the internet you will find that there isn't any scientific reason as to what causes someone to become gay.

Despite social science and biological research, it is still not known what causes someone to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or straight. Scientists and social scientists will no doubt continue to study the causes of homosexuality in both animals and humans.

Physical causes for the development of a sexual preference could be certain brain structures or hormones and research is now being done on a certain homo gene. Psychological causes and social factors could play a role. However, not enough is known about these causes for sexual preferences and there hasn't been enough research to say anything reliable about this.

Link


I could sit here all day posting quotes but do a search and see for yourself.

I'm not lying about this, its fact.

What Causes Homosexuality?

[edit on 13/7/09 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 13/7/09 by Death_Kron]

Didn't read the whole thread, but i can guess the overall tone from a certain sect of our members Kiss all they want.Unlike alot of people i dont find a couple kissing rude or "inappropriate".I actually think its nice to see two people being affectionate with each other...a breath of fresh air that lifts my mood with the evil,mischievous,dark and out and out plain crazy world we live in.The act of a simple kiss and showing affection to another brings simplicity to everything...atleast for a millisecond.

PS No i don't have some sadistic fetish of watching people in public places kiss



[edit on 13-7-2009 by Solomons]

reply to post by Death_Kron

As I said in an earlier post from what I have seen with my own eyes I'm fairly certain you are born queer. You would think evidence to support or dismiss this would have been found by now. It would be interesting to hear from someone who honestly believes they choose to be gay. Or from someone who was heterosexual but then decided they wanted to be gay?

My opinion is that most are born gay. Some because they are not strong enough to withstand the societal exclusion and bigotry will succumb to pressure and marry, have kids etc and appear straight. Some wait until their forties, until the point they feel a strong enough sense of worth to actually decide to allow their true natures through. Although I would think that you would have to completely numb out to be able to do that and live such a lie. Others are bisexual. And nowadays, the younger folk will experiment and try it...in their twenties...before someone starts screaming about kids...lol There's a whole spectrum of sexuality..it's not really either/or....some are attracted to both...some to none...and the rest we won't talk about..lol
Let's face it...if anyone really read what I wrote about imagining the world inverted, you would have had to be out of your tiny mind to choose that degree of suffering. It's changing however, which is why the younger ones will actually try it and find out what they prefer as some of them don't seem to have these ingrained prejudices.

Originally posted by Bombeni

I think the point nau was trying to make is that even though homosexuality has been around thru history as you say, it is just now, in this present time, we are being asked to accept it as a "normal" part of society. If homosexuality is "normal" -- why has it taken the thousands of years you speak of for it to come out from the cover of darkness? Lots of things have happened throughout history, but they still remain in the recesses of unacceptable behavior. Why Now? Because as nau pointed out, we live in a society with very very decaying morals, we live in a "if it feels good do it" society, and not everything that feels good is necessarily good for you.

Bombeni,

Good point and good questions. It took science thousands of years to develop. Did the Romans, the Jews, the Mayans or the Egyptians have either the compassion or the tools to understand human behavior? Consider all these societies accepted slavery. Have we changed our acceptance of that? I think so. Do we have decaying morals? What society in history could not be accused of having decaying morals?

Every society has been a feel good society for the ruling classes. True, we live in a feel good society too but we give everyone the opportunity to "feel good". It's the life, liberty and "pursuit of happiness" deal we're talking about. Two men kissing might be a display of sexual preference, it certainly is a display of affection. It was not a sexual act. A kiss, a hug, holding hands in public will not be the downfall of our society. These are displays of affection that we accept from hetero couples.

I'm not for accepting sexual acts in public for anyone. There will always be those that push the envelope. Heteroes push the envelope. This was not that.

British couple arrested in Dubai over sex on the beach

Maybe I'm mellowing with age, I just can't find the energy to hate over such a trivial thing. In many countries hetero men kiss as a sign of respect and affection. It's done in the Bible. Judas betrays Jesus with a kiss and what do the onlooking soldiers do? They descend on Jesus like the guards and cops did in the taco joint. Maybe a crucifiction would have been appropriate? Just count me out.

Beni, the line in the sand moves for each new civilization and each new generation. These, what I consider trivial events, distract us from true crimes and injustices. There is a frenzy for expanded gay rights and why is that? Because they see the opportunity to live openly like everyone else. Why the rush? Their lives are passing just like eveyone's. They are our family, friends, sons and daughters and they've learned with us that public affection is an acceptable part of a full life. I don't see them as wanting to be different. I see them as wanting to be as similar as they are capable of. We wouldn't deny someone of a different race the opportunity for a full life. Race is beyond their choice and control. I don't see this as different, their sexual preference is beyond their choice and control. Just my opinion and I'll stick with that until some homosexual hating god corrects me.

reply to post by weedwhacker

See? Based on the post from ATS member "death_kron", even you fell for it!! The APA does NOT say anything of the sort, it is that sorry excuse for a website that spews the vitriol!!!!

lol...good man...rather you than me

reply to post by Death_Kron

So what are you saying then? The kid who was heterosexual as a child...

Sorry, I have to jump in here...this is absurd. Children are not 'sexual' in the context you are discussing. I know, I know...there are studies of pre-pupubescent 'sexual' experimenting...

en.wikipedia.org...

Children are naturally curious about their bodies and sexual functions — they wonder where babies come from, they notice anatomical differences between males and females, and many engage in genital play (often mistaken for masturbation). Child sex play includes exhibiting or inspecting the genitals. Many children take part in some sex play, typically with siblings or friends. In the past, children were often assumed to be sexually "pure", having no sexuality until later development. Sigmund Freud was one of the first researchers to take child sexuality seriously. While his ideas, such as psychosexual development and the Oedipus conflict, have been rejected or labeled obsolete, acknowledging the existence of child sexuality was a milestone. Alfred Kinsey also examined child sexuality in his Kinsey Reports. Sex play with others usually decreases as children go through their elementary school years, yet they still may possess romantic interest in their peers. Curiosity levels remain high during these years, but it is not until adolescence that the main surge in sexual interest occurs...

Rest of your sentence:

...who "came out" as gay later on in life was in fact always a homosexual yet he surpressed his sexual desire for fear of ridicule?

Usually, depends on social and environmental factors. Fear of ridicule, ostrazication, rejection....

This again points back to being born gay.

Only problem is there isn't any scientific evidence that supports this theory. A gay gene has not been proven to exist...

So?? Have the entire Human genome been sequenced and catalogued sufficeintly to make that assertion? Or, put another way...HOW many genes, specific genes to specific traits in Humans, have been verified and 'proven' to exist?

The gene for handed-ness, blue eyes (which is the default, actually, fo rcaucasions...but I digress), height, body shape, facial characteristics....etc, etc, etc.

BTW....has the 'heterosexual gene' been proven to exist???? I sure like to see it.

(tags)


[edit on 13 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Maybe children aren't sexual in the exact way I'm discussing, I do know however that when I was in primary school I was looking at girls and having a crush on them - not the boys.

One poster has turned around and said they knew he/she was a homosexual at the age of 5. So tell me, if children are not sexual at that age then how would you know you preferred boys rather than girls?

All I'm saying is that there is no scientific evidence to prove you are born straight, gay or a lesbian. Until then I won't 100% believe that its possible to be born that way, although I have said that from personal experience I'd tend to believe that is in fact the case.

And no they haven't proven the existance of a heterosexual gene, however heterosexual relationships are considered the norm - so I guess they don't need to.

reply to post by Death_Kron

I'm sorry but if you look on the internet you will find that there isn't any scientific reason as to what causes someone to become gay.

I won't dispute that statement. I will include, though, that it could be argued just as easily that there isn't any scientific reason as to what causes someone to be heterosexual either.

Certainly, of course, in the arena of Natural Selection and survival of a species, then sexual reproduction (IF the organism procreates that way) would tend to favor opposite-gender attractions....but it does NOT preclude the occasional random diversity that occurs.

Who can say, especially since the understandings of biology are still in flux, that a population within a species doesn't produce some offspring pre-disposed to not desire to procreate, in order to maintain a balance and not deplete resources??

That isn't a theory, not even barely an hypothesis --- just a random suggestion, and I understand it is overly simplistic, but it could be a springboard for a rational explanation, if one exists.