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Originally posted by Devino
Does anyone else consider it odd that the manner in which the search for gravity waves are done today match the same search for an aether wind over 100 years ago-including the results?
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by Arbitrageur
The big bang model does not explain the origin of rotation or orbital motions. Observed shifts of light toward the red and blue in some models from orbital/rotational motions are quite different than the Doppler effect used to explain an expanding Universe.
What you have basically said, is a slightly different version of saying not all of those points fall in a straight line.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
If two objects are gravitationally connected to each other and rotating about each other, isn't this exactly the effect we would expect to see in the big bang model?
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by mnemeth1
A plot of galaxies red shift compared to their luminosity:
What you have basically said, is a slightly different version of saying not all of those points fall in a straight line. Of course they don't. In fact most of the data points are obviously off the line, the line is just a linear regression best fit of the data. So what the big bang can explain is the points that are directly on the line, and there aren't many of those. When you start to look for reasons why the points deviate from that line, there are lots of reasons.
[edit on 10-7-2009 by Arbitrageur]
Originally posted by mnemeth1
What ever is causing redshift, I think its safe to say its not the expansion of space.
Originally posted by Devino
Quasars are proto-galaxies that were ejected out from their parent galaxy and contain mostly very low mass subatomic particles. What light they do emit travels at very high velocities and we discern this as a high redshift.
Originally posted by Manawydan
reply to post by Arbitrageur
I thought exactly the same until recently, but it is not so. Light travels at "c" only in low gravity vacuum environment. Traveling through denser matter like water, gas, glass, ... light looses speed, traveling through strong gravitational field likewise.
See this article about laboratory experiments in slowing light down.
Kind regards, M.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by Devino
Quasars are proto-galaxies that were ejected out from their parent galaxy and contain mostly very low mass subatomic particles. What light they do emit travels at very high velocities and we discern this as a high redshift.
I thought all light traveled at the speed of light? You lost me with the comment about "What light they do emit travels at very high velocities"?
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
... it sounds like what they are doing is extending the delay between absorption and re-emission of the photons, I'm not sure they have really slowed down light.
Originally posted by Devino
Yeah, this is something that has taken me a long time to wrap my mind around so I don't know if this will make sense and I'm unsure as to its overall accuracy and relevance. I try to use terms accurately as per their definitions like acceleration, velocity and speed so as to not add confusion.
According to relativity light travels at 'c' as witnessed by an observer from that inertial frame of reference. The same light will be observed traveling at the same velocity 'c' according to any number of observers each from different inertial frames of references all moving in different directions, velocities and/or accelerations. The light's source and the observers velocities/accelerations do not add or subtract to the velocity of light so 'c' remains constant.
This only makes sense to me if light has a myriad of potential velocities but only one velocity will be seen by each observer from that inertial frame of reference thus making it a constant. After thinking about the Doppler effect of light it appears that an observer can also determine the velocity of the light's source. If this is the case then light has two discernible velocities that can be measured from each inertial frame of reference, the original velocity from the source (v^0) and the observed velocity (c).
Originally posted by Devino
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by Arbitrageur
The big bang model does not explain the origin of rotation or orbital motions. Observed shifts of light toward the red and blue in some models from orbital/rotational motions are quite different than the Doppler effect used to explain an expanding Universe.
What you have basically said, is a slightly different version of saying not all of those points fall in a straight line.
Maybe I misunderstood your intended meaning, I was making a point that there are different uses for the Doppler effect of light like determining the direction a galaxy is rotating. One side of the galaxy will have a slight redshift and the other a slight blueshift comparatively but this should not be confused with its use as proof for an expanding Universe.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
...you appeared to contradict that in the third paragraph with your statement "If this is the case then light has two discernible velocities that can be measured from each inertial frame of reference...
Originally posted by Manawydan
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
... it sounds like what they are doing is extending the delay between absorption and re-emission of the photons, I'm not sure they have really slowed down light.
Oh, I stand corrected than. My apologies.
The article states that they were able to "stop light" inside a specifically prepared super-cooled medium, so I think you are absolutely correct in your assumption about re-emission.
Kind regards, M.
Originally posted by Devino
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
...you appeared to contradict that in the third paragraph with your statement "If this is the case then light has two discernible velocities that can be measured from each inertial frame of reference...
This was the same thing I thought when I first learned about Hubble's law, it was contradicting 'c'. Light can only travel so fast so how can variations in velocity be observed? Then I thought about how a radar gun uses the Doppler effect of a radio wave to measure the speed and direction of a car by comparing the return wave with the original. Isn't this the ability to discern two different velocities from the same EM wave? One velocity is the speed the wave is traveling 'c' and the other velocity is the speed its source was traveling (galaxy or star) when it emitted the EM wave, hence Hubble's Law.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Sorry but you need to research this some more. The different redshifts are indicative of different velocities, but the different velocities are of the different MASSES emitting the light, that's where you are confused.