The Big Bang Never Happened, page 4

1)why is the infinite universe not overflowing with light? several reasons

as mentioned earlier - light dissipates as it travels , or dimming

also, asteroids, planets, rocks, dust, gas , etc will block light

therefore it would be impossible to have a superluminous sky even in an infinite universe

2) no matter where you are in an infinite system, you are always in the middle - there is infinite going either direction

so technically, if the universe is infinite , we are at the center of it

any point in a infinite system is the "middle" or "center"


btw - great thread OP and excellent discussions

and btw, i dug up my 5year old thread called "Why the Big Bang couldn't have ever happened"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i made some great arguements back then, in fact i think i was smarter back then than i am now (im getting way too old)

Originally posted by MrVertigo
I have been very interested in the various problems with the redshift method lately so thanks for the thread!

However I don't believe that totally or partially disproving redshift as a function of distance necessarily disproves the Big Bang, it just proves that our method of measuring distance is flawed.

Some would argue that is the case.

I have to wonder why we would continue on with the theory though if the primary observational evidence in favor the BBT is completely discredited.

What we are left with as supposed evidence of the BBT is light element abundance and the CMB on which to base claims of expanding space.

Both of which I feel have superior explainations in plasma models.

To quote Lerner:

The Big bang theory predicts the density of ordinary matter in the universe from the abundance of a few light elements. Yet the density predictions made on the basis of the abundance of deuterium, lithium-7 and helium-4 are in contradiction with each other, and these predictions have grown worse with each new observation. The chance that the theory is right is now less than one in one hundred trillion.

and

The Big Bang theory requires THREE hypothetical entities--the inflation field, non-baryonic (dark) matter and the dark energy field to overcome gross contradictions of theory and observation. Yet no evidence has ever confirmed the existence of any of these three hypothetical entities. Indeed, there have been many lab experiments over the past 23 years that have searched for non-baryonic matter, all with negative results. Without the hypothetical inflation field, the Big Bang does not predict an isotropic (smooth) cosmic background radiation(CBR). Without non-baryonic matter, the predictions of the theory for the density of matter are in self-contradiction, inflation predicting a density 20 times larger than any predicted by light element abundances (which are in contradiction with each other). Without dark energy, the theory predicts an age of the universe younger than that of many stars in our galaxy.

What we are left with is two competing theories, and I think its clear that Occam's razor favors the plasma model.





[edit on 4-7-2009 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by muzzleflash

---

ah love this one stared!!

i made the same point kinda as you have..

my question was more about logic tho..

the question i asked was what way is UP... you should have seen the posts some were so funny i was crying

great post my friend

reply to post by mnemeth1

---

Good post! and I am inclined to agree with you.

I just though I would make that point as there has been a lot of posts going off topic, sometimes in a fairly rude manner too.

I personally don't have a problem with the Big Bang as a concept but I am far from devoted to the theory.

But what I think you demonstrate quite well is that there are so many problems with our model of cosmology that it's time to start taking alternatives seriously instead of just keep piling theoretical constructs on top of it and ignoring data when it doesn't fit.

Hubble did express caution using the redshift of light as a constant without further observations but it was immediately accepted as proof the Universe was expanding.

"Hubble believed that his count data gave a more reasonable result concerning spatial curvature if the redshift correction was made assuming no recession. To the very end of his writings he maintained this position, favouring (or at the very least keeping open) the model where no true expansion exists, and therefore that the redshift "represents a hitherto unrecognized principle of nature."

Wiki

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
Let them continue to believe , apparently like the OP, in the Aristotelian belief that the celestial masses move because there are invisible angels up there pushing them along.

I thought this was the model for the big bang, God and the angles did it.
I wounder if you could explain the definition of "Quintessence"? Is it angles moving stuff around or is it dark energy? And what is "M" theory, an angelic aetherial membrane?

reply to post by mnemeth1

---

You're mistaking pure snark for condescension. ( BTW, "you're" is the proper contraction for you are, and not your (as in the 3rd line of your post. Also it's let's for let us.) I was afraid this thread was going to turn into a debate. Debates have no place in scientific exploration. There either was, or was not, a Big Bang.It is irrelevant to the fact whether x number of people believe it.In 1540 C.E., everyone believed that all of the cosmos revolved around the earth. That didn't make it so. Some people try to perpetuate common but mistaken beliefs, either out of self-aggrandizement, greed, or for other reasons, but sometimes merely out of a need to convince themselves that, "These people who actually spent years or decades studying a subject aren't so smart. I know something they don't know." everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts.
And of course, there are unexplained facets of BBT. That is the reason for continuing research and study. For as Niel DeGrasse Tyson puts it, "The only civil right that I absolutely demand is the right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today.

reply to post by Devino

---

Quintessence is an album released by Quincy Jones and his orchestra. It was released in 1961, his only album on the Impulse! Records jazz label.

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
reply to post by mnemeth1

---

Debates have no place in scientific exploration.

Unforutnately we aren't talking about science, we are talking about fantasy theories conjured up by physicists that involve belief in invisible matter, warping space, and fiat lux.

Facts are facts, but theory is theory, and as such its entirely debatable.

I believe the facts paint an entirely different picture compared to what the elite minds of theoretical physicists are telling us.

I have got hundreds of papers written by electrical engineers and plasma physicists that propose alternative explainations to observed cosmic phenomena that do not require belief in things like strange matter or warping space.

Theoretical physicists have devolved into claiming that the physics of the universe is actually different in different areas of space. To me this is not science any longer.

reply to post by Yandros

---

I disagree with some of your thoughts on infinity.
If infinite means to have no beginning nor ending than there are no points to measure from with which to compare. All points are finite and, as you have mentioned, measurements are comparisons of these points so to say "infinite time" or "infinite amount" would be an oxymoron.

Time is motion and motion is energy. Energy is conserved in matter giving it motion. The concept of separating these things is impossible, theoretically.

The holders of the Tesla free energy UFO need to deflect you
from the Tesla discovery of the electrified ether.

The The Big Bang Never Happened in a nut shell is by Eric Lerner

Sorry but Eric does not know about the ether being an insulative
fluid with electrical carriers ( Tesla carried currents perhaps without
electron, named by Kelvin, per say through the air-ether) or he
would know why the big bang is funded.

And not by any church, just Illuminati hiding behind religion to protect
their free energy inventions of electrical engineer Tesla.

Why should religion fund the Big Bang Theory cause I'm sure in
in their great wisdom will deem man's ideas inferior to what
God wants man to see.

ED: To get more religious, we live in a world of God own creation
that has no beginning or end to if that is what the EU perceives
perhaps we should swing in their direction.


[edit on 7/4/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
reply to post by Devino

---

Quintessence is an album released by Quincy Jones and his orchestra. It was released in 1961, his only album on the Impulse! Records jazz label.

Dig deeper, the meaning of this word goes back beyond recorded history. The relevant definition I was thinking of pertains to dark energy.

In physics, quintessence is a hypothetical form of dark energy postulated as an explanation of observations of an accelerating universe.

Quicky Wiki-

The new buzz word in cosmology these days is 'quintessence', borrowed from the ancient Greeks who used the term to describe a mysterious 'fifth element'

Astronomy Today.

My overall point is that science is coming full circle with their theories.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
1)why is the infinite universe not overflowing with light? several reasons

as mentioned earlier - light dissipates as it travels , or dimming

also, asteroids, planets, rocks, dust, gas , etc will block light

therefore it would be impossible to have a superluminous sky even in an infinite universe

2) no matter where you are in an infinite system, you are always in the middle - there is infinite going either direction

so technically, if the universe is infinite , we are at the center of it

any point in a infinite system is the "middle" or "center"


btw - great thread OP and excellent discussions

and btw, i dug up my 5year old thread called "Why the Big Bang couldn't have ever happened"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i made some great arguements back then, in fact i think i was smarter back then than i am now (im getting way too old)

I really love this post.. people read what he is saying here

we are some what the reason for everything... what ever made this universe has always had you in its equation!

so by big bang you mean BOOM from what? well for get the boom lets focus on the booms components...

and what are they?

well we have us... for starts..

then we have what? a big huge space thing!! well yeah it is a thing just like we are..

how or why we wont know, this goes into philosophy and metaphysics

so the big bang as we call it did hapen but we are apart of it and the result of it right?

I mean everything would have had to be here in the first place to create you?

thats why we have yin and yang i guess we are needed and not needed.. as in our body i guess... i mean if your smart enough to keep ur brain on a chip or something close to still being you "dunno how that works but whatever" you would be here for a long time right?? or what ever reason..

so why do we have infinity if you "life" is finite?

simple its only infinite at that point in time relative to you!

ie the only reason you see infinity is YOU

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