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Originally posted by Macrento
this was incomprehensible. Now you’ve explained it clearly: the “person” you were talking about is an omniscient God, which was not at all clear.
Originally posted by Macrento
What thought experiment? Kant’s reasonings concerning time?
Originally posted by Macrento
space and matter are inseparable concepts. Just as you can’t have matter without space to harbor it, so, too, you can’t have space without a single reference point in its midst to define a distance.
Originally posted by Macrento
When discussing the concept of “space” it is understood that one is referring to space in general, not to this or that portion of space.
Originally posted by Macrento
The problem lies, not with the part, but with the whole, and the problem is this: that in this case, the whole is not the sum of its parts. This holds true both for space and time. No matter how many volumes or instants you add up, you will never be able to complete the sum, because both space and time are infinite series."
Originally posted by Macrento
This is so impossible to grasp that only in the imaginary realm of mathematics have we been able to handle infinity...
Originally posted by Macrento
The principle that is the basis for the measuring of time is as follows: you take a natural periodic phenomenon (which by itself is already a clock) and then you choose a unit and you christen it. That’s all you need.
Originally posted by Macrento
It could be easier to understand if you try this thought experiment: imagine a pure, disembodied consciousness in empty space. How could this entity conceive space, if it has no reference points?
Originally posted by Macrento
Fifteen centuries later there is still no explanation that will satisfy everyone...yet it is at the very foundation of science...but science has no single definition of it.
Originally posted by DraconianKing
You're only attacking one piece of evidence for the big bang with the redshifts, there are many. So until you can disprove every single one and have the science world review and agree with your theory you have proved jack.
Originally posted by trace_the_truth
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
1) More "begging the question" fallacy.
2) Light gets dimmer as it travels.
You seem to be the OP's (irrational) bulldog...
I am not discussing a "begging the question" fallacy. I believe that you need to study your logic, sir...
I am discussing causality. We, as humans, know for a fact that if there are an infinite sources of light in an infinite area, then with infinite time, every where you look will end in light. It is very simple.
It's as if you are saying to me that I am begging the question of a potato to be boiled by placing it in boiling water!
You, my friend... ARE ABSURD!
As Edgar Allen Poe has said on the subject:
Were the succession of stars endless, then the background of the sky would present us a uniform luminosity, like that displayed by the Galaxy –since there could be absolutely no point, in all that background, at which would not exist a star. The only mode, therefore, in which, under such a state of affairs, we could comprehend the voids which our telescopes find in innumerable directions, would be by supposing the distance of the invisible background so immense that no ray from it has yet been able to reach us at all.
... and of course, he illustrates a universe so large (perhaps infinite in size) which can't possibly be infinite in time. This is compatible with the big bang theory due to the expansionary period and the speed of light.
You say light gets dimmer as it travels. That is of no concern to an infinite universe with infinite stars and infinite time because the photons are spreading out over an infinite area infinitely. In an infinite universe, every single photon from every single star has reached, and its successors are continuing to reach, every single point in the universe until one star in the line of site has died.. but even then there are infinite stars in that line of sight.
Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by spy66
well matter is a combination of engery on a lower level
don't forget its only a description of physical reality and how it relates to us..
the underlying property of matter is energy... that is why you cant destroy it.. because they are both the samething..
when they say matter can not be destroyed it only changes..its correct but not in form only levels of zooming in and out?
if you understand?
its like looking at something under a magnifying glass.. matter = reality as we know it
energy is the proponent of matter
you cant have one without the other!
Originally posted by tribewilder
Originally posted by mnemeth1
If red shift is not an indicator of distance, which I believe has been conclusively demonstrated that it is not by observational evidence, then we can reject the big bang as science and move on to looking at the universe as being steady in state. That is to say, the universe is infinite in size, it is ageless, it is timeless, and no big bang ever occurred. We are simply not privileged to know what caused the universe to exist or when it came into existence, it simply does. We must assume it is infinite in age as it is infinite in size.
The problem here is that I cannot grasp ageless nor infinite in size.
If I think about this too much I will either get a massive headache or go completely insane.
Excellent work on your thread..
I do wonder though, can anyone really grasp infinity??
But here is the problem. We are seeing that object 13 billion light-years distant not as it is today and where it is today but as it was and where it was, 13 billion years ago, 13 billion light-years distant from earth. In other words, for this galaxy to lie 13 billion light-years away from Earth only 750 million years after the Big Bang, it would have had to travel 13 billion light years in just 750 million years' time. That requires the galaxy in question to travel more than 17 times faster than the speed of light, a speed limit which according to the Big Bang supporters was in effect from the moment the universe was 3 seconds old.
Originally posted by sirnex
So, how does light from something only 750 million years old travel a distance of 13 billion light years? Or am I not understanding what he's saying or what the BB Theory is saying?
Originally posted by sirnex
In other words, for this galaxy to lie 13 billion light-years away from Earth only 750 million years after the Big Bang, it would have had to travel 13 billion light years in just 750 million years' time. That requires the galaxy in question to travel more than 17 times faster than the speed of light, a speed limit which according to the Big Bang supporters was in effect from the moment the universe was 3 seconds old.
So, how does light from something only 750 million years old travel a distance of 13 billion light years? Or am I not understanding what he's saying or what the BB Theory is saying?
Originally posted by sirnex
When we look back at the supposed beginning of the universe close to the big bang, we don't see baby galaxies, we see fully developed mature and sometimes high density galaxies.
Originally posted by Devino
I think sirnex got the basic problem down and his question is valid. How can we observe light that is 13 billions years old that originated 13 billion ly form here at near the big bang when we also were supposed to be there (in "we" I mean the energy that became 'us').
Man's progress is not measured by the reaches of his science but by the limits of his superstition.