Michael Jacksons Ghost ?

reply to post by Enjay


Already discussed here a few posts up by mblahnikluver
lots of resources here and a great discussion.

Originally posted by Tartarspoon
reply to post by CapsFan8

 

You asked for it !

TAPS Debunks MJ's Ghost

"It's just someone walking in the far room casting their shadow," said the series' stars, hoping to put an end to the speculation. "We see this all the time. The person would be on the left side of the far room, out of sight blocking a light. We see this a lot."

Oh everyone is getting in on the action.

Maybe they could do a show from there.

I put it on the other thread, but I figured why not here also.



The bending is obvious, and you can make out that he has both hands in front of him, not just one.

After I read most of this thread I watched the entire CNN special report.After the "sighting"the camera and CNN go into the room in question,Michaels bedroom,at that time there is a man at the door..which I am sure was the shadow...also at this time you can see the layout of the room.I do not know anything about lighting but this will help those that do...I believed it was something strange until I watched the whole thread...I always keep an open mind...R.I.P. MJ

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Cloudywing]

reply to post by Saidin


Quick question, on the far left center of the clip, you can see the shadow pass in front of the vertical shiny spots on the door trim. you can see the spots dim in brightness as it passes over. How is this possible when the person is in the far room

reply to post by Tartarspoon


Look closely and you will see those are small gaps, possibly from the hinges of the door. You can see the color in the gap match the color of the wall in question, and you can also see the shadow pass behind it.

Edit: Well, it's just one gap that's at the level of the wall, the other gap is at the bottom of the door, and is reflected a bit by the floor. There appears to be another "gap", above and to the right a bit from the one that changes color as the shadow passes behind. That "gap", I believe, is just the brasswork of the door, you can see one in the same general area on the opposite door.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

reply to post by Saidin



Ok, I see it now, makes total sense
thanks for the clarification.

Originally posted by Tartarspoon
reply to post by Saidin

 

Quick question, on the far left center of the clip, you can see the shadow pass in front of the vertical shiny spots on the door trim. you can see the spots dim in brightness as it passes over. How is this possible when the person is in the far room

Oh yea, I see what you mean, it does dim, wow.

Originally posted by Saidin
reply to post by Tartarspoon

 

Look closely and you will see those are small gaps, possibly from the hinges of the door. You can see the color in the gap match the color of the wall in question, and you can also see the shadow pass behind it.

Edit: Well, it's just one gap that's at the level of the wall, the other gap is at the bottom of the door, and is reflected a bit by the floor. There appears to be another "gap", above and to the right a bit from the one that changes color as the shadow passes behind. That "gap", I believe, is just the brasswork of the door, you can see one in the same general area on the opposite door.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

Now I am confused again.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I figured that might happen. I should have just left it as gaps in the door without trying to explain so thoroughly. Maybe I'll add something to the pictures to show what I mean.

Edit: Ok, here it is, edited with description, and special-bonus "smoking gun" evidence I noticed while editing!



[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

It was just a shadow with a reflection off the floor. I've seen some people post on youtube that it is real since the people doing the tour are going left, but really, do you expect the house to be completely empty of staffers and security? If it really was Michael Jackson's spirit roaming the halls of Neverland, don't you think it would've done something like moonwalk or at least the dance number from Thriller? I'm just saying. I mean, look at the background, the shadow changes as it passes over the wall.

I would like to know just how long "Gary" the cameraman's hair is. Even when zooming on the enhanced photos I am still inclined to say that the hairline is past the shoulders... anyone?

reply to post by Tartarspoon


I noticed that also... in fact I brought it up on page 10 but nobody seemed to care...

Originally posted by telemetry
~snip~
One tidbit that I had gleaned from watching this waaay too many times is this:
If you look closely at the lower left hand side of the door trim, as there appears to be a relection of some sort...
This reflection, for lack of a better term seems to change luminosity in the same time as the MJ ghost moves across the frame. It's kinda tough to pick out at full speed but if you slow it down you will see what I mean. Whatever is moving seems to be effecting this spot on the door casing also.
~snip~

Originally posted by Saidin
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Edit: Ok, here it is, edited with description, and special-bonus "smoking gun" evidence I noticed while editing!

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Saidin]

Thanks for posting that Saidin!

Interesting thread.

I've worked in television too (as an earlier poster has, also) and I would back up the various comments that this kind of thing happens fairly frequently and editors have to cut around these distractions that aren't supposed to be in the shot. But I do have some further comments...

Normally on a location shoot, the location is secured before they roll. There is quiet on the "set" and crew know that they are not supposed to walk around during taping of segments. When crew violate that, you have to reshoot or if it is live, someone gets chewed out afterwards. Remember Christian Bale exploding on the Director of Photography for walking around? Same thing. What I would like to know is whether there were other crews for other shows on location (this would explain simultaneous activity in the different rooms) or if the crew in the far room was part of this same CNN crew and they were lighting the far room for the down-the-hall shot but didn't realize taping was in progress. That would be unusual or you might say sloppy on the field producer's part for not coordinating better. It is also sloppy location shooting for the light stand to be in the shot. If the shadow was made by a grip, he or she was probably going to retrieve the light and stand to get it out of the shot and suddenly realized it was too late because the long hall shot was happening already. I've seen this happen before. The person stops just before entering into the shot to get something because of a sudden realization that to go farther to get the gear out of camera would make it worse because then that person would be on cam. Better to just leave the gear in the shot and stop walking around.

The person making the shadow, from my experience, looks like either a production assistant or grip on an errand or a reporter or presenter pacing around trying to memorize key points for an on-camera stand-up. If it was the P.A. or grip, the person seems to be walking lightly either unsure of what to do and where to go or trying to be quiet on the set. If it was another reporter (which would mean a separate TV crew on a different show) the person probably has bullet point notes in hand and is pacing back and forth looking down at the notes and trying to memorize. I have seen this exact same behavior countless times. If this is the case, I think the person is female (long hair).

On the other hand...

the CNN explanation was very lame... they should have been able to say exactly who made the shadow but they really didn't seem to know... judging from my experience, at least a couple of people on that CNN crew would know who was back there at that time and the producer in the follow-up only said it was either crew or Neverland staff but wasn't sure and this means CNN just don't want to say who it was or they really don't know... and if no one on that crew can say who was back there... or if all crew say no one on that crew was in that room... and if they determined no staff were there (which they could determine) then you have a possible ghost event. My point is that it should have been relatively easy for CNN crew to clear up and it seems they didn't or weren't able to.

This is what is so weird to me...

the timing of the appearance of the shadow was so perfect that you have a fantastic coincidence at the very least but I would say this was synchronicity, whatever the cause... if you were to stage that, it would be in the 10 - 15 takes range to get perfect timing like that

the fact that the shadow is the same build, same walking gait, same posture, same hair length of MJ and this would be a likely place for a haunting (if you believe that)... so all those details line up perfectly... it's a one in a million chance for all those factors to line up (the person making the shadow wasn't short, fat with short hair, etc)

Conclusion...

I would like to know what the crew think about this. We heard from Larry King and the producer. I don't think either of them was in a position to know who was actually in that other room but I believe the crew do know and if they say the room was empty, you have a ghost story. The fact that there is a light on a stand in the shot points to the likely probability that whomever was in that room didn't realize there would be a shot showing that room or they did and were attempting to walk over and get that gear out of the shot then realized they had to stop walking because the shot was in progress.

Having said all of that... I would have to admit that this is one of the best ghost videos I've ever seen, simply because it absolutely looks like a shadow of Michael Jackson himself and the odds of a crew member looking like and walking like MJ are pretty strange odds.

So, where do I stand...

a) it looks like the ghost of MJ, which would be highly synchronistic, thus paranormal
even if it was simply a crew person making a shadow, the coincidence factor is
very weird

b) the CNN crew most likely know who it was and we really haven't heard from them

c) CNN don't want to make anything of it because the paranormal stuff is usually not of any interest or believed by journalists and journalists always want to find a simple explanation for things (in my experience, they are some of the least open-minded people in society... they almost never think outside the box)

I have the episode RECORDED and it does not look like a Shadow on my HDDVR. It looks like an Entity. Michael Jackson looking Entity.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Thiaoouba Prophecy]

The problem with the theories listed above is that none of them take into account that the legs of the shadow extend far enough down the hallway to conclude that the shadows subject is not walking from the furthest point from the camera, but rather closer to the camera. There really is no telling how close it is to the camera considering the shadows legs are overcasted by the shadows of the hallway itself.

Let's assume that there is a lightsource behind the cameraman.

If the cameraman was balancing the camera over his shoulder, (which isn't exactly an uncommon technique in news programs like Larry King Live) and he were to position himself almost directly in front of the door, then it might be enough for the camera to see directly down the hallway without the cameramans shadow reflecting off the wall at the end of the hallway.

If the cameraman was positioned as stated above and someone were to walk from one end of the room that the cameraman is standing in to the other end of the room behind the cameraman AND there is indeed a light source behind the cameraman, then that persons shadow would most likely appear at the end of the hallway stretched out exactly like it is in this video without the cameramans shadow appearing in front of it.

At any rate, if it is truely paranormal then considering where the legs of the shadow stretch out on the floor, the entity would have to be somewhere closer to the cameraman.

In the beginning i was pretty convinced this was MJ (really still hoping it is..)
As others have pointed out, the shadow really resembles him. From the slim figure, to the hair, to the walk,... it's really quite fascinating!
However, after reading over this thread, i have my doubts that it is in fact something other than a shadow because of only one simple thing - the chandelier...
It was not obvious in the 'original' video, however the close up video of it (in this thread) makes it quite obvious it is there. As much as i wanted this to really be MJ, (sooo much), doesn't the chandelier confirm that this in fact is nothing more than just a shadow...?

I think we would all agree that it is a shadow... the question is... a shadow of Michael Jackson or a shadow of a TV crew member or a shadow of someone else innocently there on the scene.

Look, it's no use arguing whether or not it is a shadow. It is a shadow. I just happen to believe it could be MJ materializing in the form of a shadow for those few seconds.

If no one on location that day can say "yeah, it was so-and-so" or "yeah, it was me" because they saw the real person doing the walk or were the person... if no one can pinpoint that, then I believe it could very well be the ghost of Michael Jackson.

***** Check this out... look very closely at the enlargements in the posts on this page that have the blue circle drawn in to illustrate a point (nice work, by the way and star for you)... O.K., in just the one frame of video when that blue circle pops on, look at the shape of the nose. It is slightly upturned like MJ. The Peter Pan nose. Just look at that one frame. Does anyone agree with me? That is like the smoking gun for me. That shadow has a little, impish, Peter Pan, upturned nose just on that frame when the poster has popped on the blue circle in the posts above. Now that is creepy. *****

Here's the thing about all of this...

no one has yet come forward and said "hey guys, it was me"

no one has yet come forward and said "I saw or know for a fact that so-and-so was in that room at that time and it had to be so-and-so"

no one has given a concrete fact explanation.

Sorry, Larry King and your producer, but when you guys get on and say "nothing paranormal folks, our producer was on location and he didn't feel any paranormal vibes, so hey, it was just no big deal"...

sorry, Larry, that is as lame as it gets. News flash for Larry King... you don't have to sense or feel any paranormal vibes for the paranormal to actually happen... in fact,
most paranormal events happen suddenly and people aren't aware until it is on right then and there, so don't brush it off or laugh it off... if your crew cannot say they know who it was making that shadow, and no one else has any idea who it was, then a paranormal apparition of the ghost of MJ in the form of a shadow is in my opinion as good an explanation as any.

As I said, I've worked in TV and been on hundreds of location shoots over 26 years in the business. I know it could have been a grip holding a gel or a scrim, or someone looking at notes. I know it could easily be a crew person making the shadow, but no one has come forward to explain this away. When something like this happens, all you have to do is ask every person on the crew "hey, we're just trying to clear this up, no one is in trouble over it, we just want to know definitively it was crew, was it crew?" and believe me they will tell you without a doubt yes or no. It's not like, "sorry we don't remember". They remember. They know where they were. It's more like the whole crew might say "none of us were in there at that time so it must have been house staff". Crew won't cover up the facts on something like this because in reality, no one would get in trouble for coming forward and admitting it. The incident caused great promo P.R. for CNN and the network is actually glad it happened because of the hyped up public interest in Larry's show, besides whenever someone gets "in trouble" over something like that (which is a fairly innocent mistake to inadvertently make an unwanted shadow in a shot), the scolding would happen right then after the segment (during the break, if live) and not later.

So, there's no reason for anyone to not admit making the shadow and no reason for other crew to coverup for the person. They don't have to name names. They could just say "yeah, it was without any doubt a member of the crew, but we respect the person's privacy" and yet they haven't said that. Larry and his no clue producer just said they think it was someone on their crew or someone on Neverland staff. Might as well say they think it was probably a living person with some reason to be there but they're not sure.

Larry and his producer's explanation was lame and not acceptable.

Until someone comes forward and admits they know for sure who it was... this is a possible paranormal event.

I still say the synchronicity aspect of all this is paranormal in and of itself, regardless of who made the shadow and yes, an entity can materialize in the form of a shadow IMHO. So, you know, yes the chandelier is a shadow of a real chandelier, No question. The shadow that looks like MJ? Could be MJ.

reply to post by Tartarspoon


When I first saw this I scoffed at it and thought "obviously this is a shadow of someone walking around in that room", but the more I try to figure out where that person is, the weirder it looks.

Look at any person's shadow any time - no matter where the light source is, the person's feet meet the feet of the shadow. Not in this case though. The shadow seems to be completely independent of any solid body. The legs should stretch across the floor to the feet of the person casting the shadow, however they're not distorted in any way. Really weird!

it is not a shadow.
this is filmed by cnn and never through all the reality shows and films i watch have i heard people talk about shadows shooting across the room.

This is a clip of the original footage unedited and raw featuring the true legend of the king and that his legend will never die! all the negativity in this thread just shows how people can hate on others for their legendary status out of some kind of pathological social disorder stemming from jealousy that is evidenced in their lifetime of self hatred.

That is the spirit of Michael in his one true home he built out of love.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by tigpoppa]