The largest tax increase in American history under the guise of climate change has passed.

The American public is not real bright in general. I was talking to a friend about it and she said "It won't affect me, I don't have gas heat". Uh, hello, it is going to affect your already $600+ a month utility bills quite a bit. Not to mention the gas in your car, the way that EVERYTHING is going to go up due to fuel prices. She would not listen because she hated Bush. It isn't so much she likes Obama, it is that she hated Bush. The logic eludes me.

As far as health care, well, walk into any emergency room and you'll get cared for. When my Dad died, he did not have insurance(he had started his own company and could not get insurance) He spent a week in ICU and his care was as good as anyone's on full insurance. You can't fix dying though. Emphysema is a killer. He had medical care the whole time. No one is turned away at emergency rooms. No one is left to die without insurance. Sorry, that is a scary picture made to pass a legislation to put more control to the government.

No one in this country goes without, unless they choose to. Food stamps, public housing, WIC, you will not starve or die of exposure as long as you stand in line for your handout. Now they make it so it doesn't even make you embarrassed, would hate to have anyone be ASHAMED of being on welfare. Now they give you a debit card

This bill is another disaster even worse than the bailouts. It is like a bad dream. I must have fell down the rabbit hole sometime in January

Another problem with this bill is the unforeseen repercussions.

It may affect not just America, but the entire world.

America will have an international problem with cap and trade. How will it compete with the countries that don't have it?

It appears to have Canada, it's number 1 trading partner, whipped down to play along with C&T through the use of an undercurrent of implications threatening carbon tariffs. Canada is now saying "Yeah, Ok, maybe we'll go C&T too, but no tariffs, OK?"

But what about other countries like China and India. There's no way they'll play along. They'll issue tariffs right back at the US. Some might say, "Yay, too cool. Buy American", but if that happens once more you're looking at another inflationary hit. Local prices already rising from the spin-off effects of cap and trade, rise once more in reaction to the inflated prices of foreign goods, as a battle of protectionism begins. The worth of the American dollar takes a dump.

Creating a climate of protectionism, tends to spread, and things continue to get worse as other countries jump aboard the protectionist bandwagon.

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by zorkthegreat


Go out and look as to why American's are hated the world over. Two faced, greedy, selfish, demanding and do not contribute anything to the rest of the world except suffering and demands.

Go back to your own country and be American, don't do it in ours.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by zorkthegreat]

Contribute nothing? Nice computer you have.....your welcome.


Ever use a blender? Your welcome.

Satellites? Your Welcome.

Telephone? Your Welcome.

Tampons? Your welcome ladies.

Tractors? Radio? Flashlight? Traffic Signals? Radio Astronomy? Radio Telescopes? Chemotherapy? The Defibrillator? Mobile phones? Carbon Dating? The Artificial Heart? The heart-lung machine?

Your welcome. Oh and how can I forget...

The Polio Vaccine, The hard disk, the integrated circuit, GPS, Birth Control, Glucose Meter.....

Heart Transplant surgery, Lung Transplant surgery, LED, LCD, Plasma displays..... The compact disk.

While we were busy NOT contributing anything to the rest of the world, we went ahead and gave the world, The smoke detector, E-Mail, The digital Camera, The Hepatitis B vaccine, The MRI Machine, Voicemail, and The Internet.

Please continue your idiotic rant against the country that gave the world all of that, it's nothing short of incredible to watch a person from a parasitic nation producing nothing but stupidity wail loud and hard about how the most inventive and generous nation in history contributes nothing. Oh...

I forgot, we also invented The motorcycle, The Automobile, and the Airplane. Hard to remember everything. But Your welcome for that also.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by aravoth]

Yea!

funny how these foriegn B. Osama lovers come here and revert to namecalling to justify their poor judgement.
Its bad enough the american Osama supporters are hiding under rocks right now.

He had to get this passed before too many people caught on the the scam.

reply to post by Akela



I think you might be right. I don't think that Obama is rushing his BS bills thru Congress because he cares about the US so much.

I think he knows that since 2006, the Democrats have been in power and pretty much have done nothing. In 2010, a lot will be voted out. They still may have control, but it will be by a very slim margin.

In 2012, Obama will be on the street looking for a new job. So, he's rushing all his stupid bills thru before the time runs out. He's making sure that his buddies (Pelosi, Dodd, Frank, Gore) make as much money off the American people as they can, that his pet projects (ACORN,etc) get as much tax dollars as they want, before the door closes on them.

You know that the Obama family won't be cold this winter. They will all be sitting around the White House, with full tummies, watching a private concert of Earth, Wind and Fire, all paid for by the US tax payer.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Thank you, I see others acknowledge the natural trends of the planet. All this bill is doing is creating a new route to exploit the public. The republicans have haliburton the dems have carbon offsets! It's like all the complaining about fuel cost's. Yea the oil companies made a profit, but so did the government in taxes. Once the prices went down all that money in taxes was cut back. Money that was already spent. Now we get regulations on emissions. How is Pelosi's state going to implement anything since it's bankrupt? The poster child for progressive thinking was spending way more than it had! A great model for the rest of the country.

Cap & Trade, That is how to spell the end of The United States Of America.
And for all of the America bashing I've read on this and other threads, when you lose the little bit of freedom you currently enjoy, remember Neville Chamberlain, to paraphrase, "We have climate stasis in our time".
Friggin' idiotic. Same problem, different ideology.
Powergrabbers.

I will never agree with our government!

What right do they have to raise our gas/heating bills? I think that Congress only passes laws that benifit themselves. Almost every senator or representative is a wealthy man (or woman) , so none of them will have to pay for these bills. None of them will know what it is like to suffer when the bills go up. After reading an article in the paper this morning, i found out that out local representative voted for this, which is why i am going to write him a letter stating the true facts of this bill! I think that we should all contact out local congressmen who voted for higher prices!

Wilt, your rep care about the facts and I am sure he is as aware of them as the next guy. What you can do is not vote for him next time around and write a letter explaining THAT to him. It will affect him a heck of a lot more than trying to tell him what your view of the bill is.

He wants his job. If people no longer vote for him, he doesn't have it. I would be on the phone to his office letting them know that you are in his district and will actively campaign against him for voting yes to this.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


The demise of your country has started. And the world is rejoicing. As for your challenge, as if your country can be saved by your dumb, fat, entitled and undisciplined teenagers. I cringe to think what would happen when these future of your country finally grow up.

On topic:

We really don't know what will happen when there's too much carbon in the atmosphere. Care to find out?

This is the biggest pile a crap i have ever heard... NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO READ IT??!?!?!?! COME ON, I'm sorry but this is another massive slap in the face, the government is rogue, and so far every peaceful option has failed... WTH is going on, how can people even say yeah I vote for it with out even reading it! IMO this needs to be on the front page, this is horrible.

Originally posted by eldard
The demise of your country has started. And the world is rejoicing. As for your challenge, as if your country can be saved by your dumb, fat, entitled and undisciplined teenagers.

I cringe to think what would happen when these future of your country finally grow up.

Probably bomb and take over the country you live in.

Now, care to actually add something contstructive to this thread, or just want to continue with the pathetic America Bashing? I'm open to both.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

The demise of your country has started. And the world is rejoicing. As for your challenge, as if your country can be saved by your dumb, fat, entitled and undisciplined teenagers.

I cringe to think what would happen when these future of your country finally grow up.

You should follow that up with an evil cackle.

No, really.

On topic:

We really don't know what will happen when there's too much carbon in the atmosphere. Care to find out?

Uh, yeah,lets take a look at ummm, ooohhh, volcanoes?

Please, can I introduce you to science?

Originally posted by eldard
We really don't know what will happen when there's too much carbon in the atmosphere. Care to find out?

Actually we do. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "too much", we have seen massively more CO2 in the atmosphere than what we can expect from human emissions.

Generally what we saw was the proliferation of biomass, and life.

Here ya go. Check it out.




[edit on 28-6-2009 by Ntity]

The only thing this bill will accomplish will be an ever increasing number of Americans on the dole and dependent on the state for their welfare.

Maybe that's what the Community Organizer really wants. A Saul Alinsky state with a dependent underclass to keep them in office forever.

Or until the state collapses.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
Its so terrible to contribute to society isn't it. This thread will be mostly rants of American's wanting to be greedy and selfish again and not contribute. Their right to have a car and pollute but not be accountable is in their DNA it seems.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by zorkthegreat]

Naw, we LOVE contributing to society. We just don't think it's up to you to tell us how, when, and what to contribute.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat

Originally posted by Fullblast
Love how I, as an American, am painted as selfish, because I am intelligent enough to know that man made Global Warming is myth based on bad science.

Do some research. Anthony Watts site was voted best science blog of 2008 and it has more information than most of the uninformed global warming crowd will ever bother to read.

I am ashamed of the corruption in my government.

Regardless of the cause there is the usual push back by American's when they have to contribute to something. Usually it is a case of do as you say but not as you do. You cannot lead by example.

I don't care to lead at all, by example or otherwise. Don't ask me to lead you, find your own way.

You cannot contribute to the UN you demand a veto in everything you demand that we do this or that for our finances which has nothing to do with you. You demand you have control of our intelligence services you demand you have military bases in our countries but we dare not demand the same thing in return.

I can think of no legitimate reason we SHOULD contribute to the UN, but for some odd reason those knotheads in Washington insist on contributing the lion's share to the UN. I'd prefer you take their HQ to Europe or somewhere besides America, and leave us out of that foolishness. I'm all for pulling the military bases out of your countries too. You should be able to look out for yourselves. The rest, concerning your finances and intelligence services, is baseless, as far as I can tell.

Go out and look as to why American's are hated the world over. Two faced, greedy, selfish, demanding and do not contribute anything to the rest of the world except suffering and demands.

Sounds like France to me.

Go back to your own country and be American, don't do it in ours.

I'd be happy to. Tell me what country you're in, and I promise to never cross your shores. Assuming you aren't already in America, trying to soak up the freebies and opportunities we insist on giving to foreigners here.

[edit on 2009/6/28 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
reply to post by longstalker

 

Hmm? Climate change is real and something has to be done. I applaud to the new law restricting American greenhouse gas emissions. This is very good. Now you can join the civilized world again. Now we can save the Earth together.

To me the idea that this will result in increase of taxes is insane. What about your children and grandchildren? You want them to live in a world of ecological disaster? Complaining about taxes in a case like this is so insanely selfish and short-sighted I wonder how you manage to live withyourself.

Actually the NWO is a good idea, if USA is full of selfish people who don't care about the world. Then you will submit. I, for one, now welcome our NWO overlords. I noticed that the Americans are so selfish people I want the NWO to control you.

I gotta apply for a job as a some kind of a foreign NWO controller in USA. I will make you pay your carbon emission taxes.

For that trash comment I will be exhausting as much harmful pollutants in the coming weeks just out of spite. I hope during WWIII that you are safe. I would not like to see Finland blown off the map.

reply to post by Ntity


I think I can shed some light on this. The whole carbon reduction hoax has been created primarily to generate a tax that supports the UN. This way they can fund world government and world tyranny through the most corrupt organization on earth. Those 'green' projects will be approved by the UN, and the monies used for whatever the heck the powers that be, want it to be used for. (Primarily to advance globalism.)

Mark my words, funding the UN militia will be viewed as a valid carbon offset, since we need to start policing green policies and so forth. Thus the facts simply don't matter. If the facts don't support global warming, but global cooling simply shoot the messenger.

(Mods, this may seem off-topic, but it'll get there in the end!) I used to share a big old house that was nicely renovated, insulated etc. One time, just before xmas, the heating broke down & the landlord wouldn't answer the phone to us for 13 days. We were # freezing! Luckily 1 period feature left was a fireplace in the kitchen & the landlord had left a pile of timber from the doing up the place in the basement. We burned it. Didn't last long & then we had to scavenge the streets for more. Now, we had gas & electric for cooking & laundry, but imagine if we hadn't. How much more wood would we have needed? What if we weren't the only ones, if utilities were so expensive half the city was doing the same? There wouldn't be a tree left standing & there'd have to be guards on public buildings 24/7 to stop people ransacking them for combustibles. Add to that huge price rises on food etc. & crime would go completely out of control. It'd be total chaos. There's no money in social collapse. WTF am I on about? This: there is a finite limit to the price of energy which is determined by what low earners can afford to pay or very costly disorder would ensue.
On to this bill. The key word is tax. America is broke, but the Federal Govt still needs money. Let's imagine that it's possible to elect a US president that's not a pawn of TPTB. What could s/he do? Tax the corporations & richest individuals who got a lot of the money the USA overspent (eg Haliburton)? History would have another lone gunman & we'd have a new conspiracy to chew on. How about, "My fellow Americans, our nation is technically bankrupt. For this reason, in order to afford public spending, I am increasing income tax for all." Somehow I think those teaparties might get a lot more disorderly! Think of this bill as a compromise. It will tax you right up to the limit of what you can afford & companies will just have to accept lower profit margins or quit.
I'll break it down: America has called the tune for 60 years. Now the piper needs paying.