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How do you deal with your rationality when you see something?

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posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 03:38 PM
You need to understand rationality, perception, and belief.

Rationality is basically the logical modalities of cause and effect, physical relationships of energy, matter, and ""other". Your rationality depends on the understanding of physics, mathematics, and the relationships of these things. It's basically how well you understand what's really happening. What would be incomprehensible to caveman is completely rational to Faraday. Newton couldn't "see" the possibility of a Higgs-Boson subparticle interacting with a series of particles in 128 mathematical dimensions the way Garret Lisi can "see" it. In 1000 years Lisi's ideas could be seen as the "flat earth" view of particle physics in light of new discoveries and modalities.

Perception is basically how you use and apply rationality to what you experience and basically it's translating what your senses receive into what you rationalize as logical reality. Some people perceive god, some science, some nothing, but even that nothing is a target of your perception. The BS filter is sometimes included in this software package.

Belief is basically the amount of rationality you apply to perception.

People whose belief is weak apply a minimum amount of rationality to their perception and thus their perception is recorded as an event, and if it's somewhat irrational to you, but not important enough for you to worry about, you'll find it much easier to accept that it's coincidence, or that it's optical illusion, or physical property or modality of which you are unaware.

As belief becomes stronger, the event is logged as having more importance and relevance to your perception, and with that an increased amount of rationality is applied. If science is rational to you you'd apply quantum physics, if you were the "invisible man in the sky rules everything with an iron fist" type of perciever, then the same common synchronicity events we all experience, like 11:11 and learning a new word then hearing it 3 more times that day, bob helps you fix a flat tire and later on you help a guy named bob do the same thing. The scientific rationality would try to define terms and construct equations about how the collapse of the wave function echoes off the zero point field or something of that nature, where as the ruler being god perception would think god is speaking to them through these things.

These are just two exaggerated examples, so don't even bother getting all religious and saying i insulted your god, it's just a parable, a metaphor, and the same with you new agey pseudoquantum physicists, yeah, same thing.)

Now, putting it all together, you need to acknowledge that there's an underlying psychological formula at work that rely on the factors of rationality, perception, and belief, and to also factor that in. That could be said to be a quantification of wisdom. The recognition that you know there is something more at work greater than the sum of the parts you know about is where true wisdom begins. Knowing that the sum of the parts you can exist in reference to is a miniscule portion of infinity is great wisdom. Knowing you actually know nothing and are stricltly a part of the equation and not at all the medium of the equation is infinite wisdom. When you write, your words are not paper nor ink, nor anything in between. They're a reverberation, an echo, like dropping a pebble into a calm puddle and watching the waves interfere with each other.

Once you truly grasp the realization that your mind is running an algorithm that is basically a complex simulation, you understand a lot more about what's simulated and why.

Your split thoughts are like two simulators running, you can experience both, but you don't yet realize that or realize why. Basically you've got two windows open on your psychological desktop and you keep losing place and reading bits of each at times, not getting a full picture. Once you open both windows side by side and make comparisons of the results of both, you can expose the missteps in logic that mild thought zealotry would oftentimes overlook. Somewhere in between the two biases there will oftentimes be a harmonic resonance, which is sorts close to absolute reality. Drop a pebble from each palm in the same puddle and watch the ripple patterns interfere with each other. Some waves cancel each other, contradicting and absorbing each other. Other waves will assist and amplify each other and rise above their independent levels. The patterns are like the output of your simulations, some will support each other, some will nullify each other. Get it?

Still, there's a lesson here that no text can teach, be it from Mohammed or Maxwell, or anywhere in between, one you can only learn by paying attention to all things within the scope of rationality and perception and also paying attention to the boundaries where they end, and realizing that there's more to your "observable universe" and factoring in your knowledge of unknowns. Ask Einstein about the cosmological constant lambda in his field theory, he was adding the unknown forces affecting what he observed, and he wasn't happy because it disrupted the eloquence of his simplicity of how he perceived the universe to be. He struggled with this problem for the rest of his career and tried in vain to basically see beyond his observable universe.

I've had an experience that was similar to what people describe as an alien abduction, beings that came for me in the night with paralyzing telepathy and mindbending skills. I not-so-politely refused their offer to steal my mind and they retreated. I've related the experience to several people, and the religious said it was demons or succubi, the scientific said it was brain chemicals, the ufo believers said i'm an abductee, (though i wasn't taken), and Graham Hancock said it sounded like some shamanistic visions he's researched.

Each person had a different perception and applied their rationality to it to reach their opinion on what happened. Personally i don't think my experience is any of the above, and i can't label it as any one specific occurrence, but only realize that it took place. One day i may understand, or i may never understand, but if i pretend to understand it i'm only deceiving myself.

So, in conclusion, not everyone who stares at ripples in puddles with amazement and wonder is high on mushrooms, some are actually enlightened.

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:12 PM
Good thread.

You know, I lived in southern Illinois most of my life. I went to a good school with good teachers and received a good education. I was surrounded by peers who also having that education talked about all sorts of intelligent ideas. Ah yes we would sit around with a glass of scotch discussing politics, religion, science, philosophy, psychology etc. I would read everything I could get my hands on and learn as much as I could on as many subjects as I could imagine in order to have new material for these conversations. They kept me sharp, on my toes, mindful of the importance of knowledge.

I later moved to Wyoming, a state with rolling hills and beautiful mountains and simple folk. I haven't had a really intelligent conversation in 5 years. That is why I come here to ATS, my escape from the intellectually numb.

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:27 PM
Great post -- when the spirit awakens, what else could be important? But -- balance is important as well as taking time to absorb the inner experiences. Figure that so far you're less than 1,000 of 1 percent of what's ahead!

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:02 PM
reply to post by cdi

Dear cdi

I did see something that I can’t explain a long time ago now, details of this are on a thread here

Have a look at this URL there is a guy on there called Don Phillips

He is supposed to by ex of Lockheed Skunkworks. I don’t know about this site but certainly the moon and water exploration thing by NASA seam to be correct. In other articles that I have read this morning the date also seams to be 09-10-09 for the impact. However that may have been delayed now.

I have seen many, many photos of possible structure on the moon. I have to say I am still not completely convinced. However the possibility still remains. Certainly the likes of John Lear is totally convinced.

So are they ours??? Or there’s??? Or indeed some of each. That is if they are there at all. See flip flop.

I have meet many US citizens that say the US can’t keep a secret. Which I tend to agree with. However in the early 40’s even through the project was most likely the largest secret project that we now know about it was a secret even from the vice president. I am referring to the Manhattan Project. To me this proves that should necessity demand a secret can be kept even in the US.

So there are enormous amounts of sightings of strange craft by credible witnesses, in other circumstances we would never contradict these people. Yet when it comes to a sighting we tend to take it with a pinch of salt.

However the authorities say no there are just a lot of weather balloons and swamp gas. Naturally they may be some that are secret military projects. However that tech did not spring from no where and the boffins say it’s not there’s.

There is only one thing I know for sure and that is they are lying. Problem with that is if I am right it’s about something very big. Something so huge that the man in the street would just say you are nuts. Hell he might be right.

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:31 PM
reply to post by cdi

Dear cdi

I am not anxious about these possibilities I am old and for sure this body is warring out fast anyway so I am not anxious for myself at all other than hopefully a quick painless death. But I certainly do not wish to dwell on the morbid.

It is as I said I know that are lying and I know these lies are for there protection not ours. Therefore I don’t in anyway trust them to do what is right by humanity.

However I would not like to be in there position at all. If what I think is correct it is not a position that any sane man would relish. But I certainly do not want to be considered one of these doomsday nuts. Who claim to know what will happen and get every body wound up. These people will do damage as indeed they have done in the past.

However there is something going on and it is a very big secret. No guess on what or when but I don’t like the sound of this moon thing at all.

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:49 PM
I learned a long time ago the hard way that things are not as simple as black and white. There is a fine line between fact and fantasy, reality and make believe. The trick to being able to see where one stops and the other begins. To add to this problem the line becomes more and more blurred each day. Read my signature line below.

posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:57 PM
The silly truth is alot of times even after seeing alot of stuff you don't believe in, you still cannot rationalize, you never get use to seeing dead bodies when your a ambulance driver either,

part of your awe and shock apply for a reason
it could be once in a lifetime
or just more than your mind can find a shelf to set it down on.

Just let it take its natural place
it will


posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 02:19 PM
reply to post by MAC269

hi mac269
i appreciate the honesty i am feeling from you. with regards to your thread, i have read and concur that i also have experienced similar incidents to this day. it is about being in the right place at the right time but this is by no way a fixed statement. if you have stayed in the vicinity of your earlier education then we are very close geographically! with regards to the moon quandry, (i have not seen the url) i am guessing that they are not after water on the moon. i may be wrong but here goes. discovery of an abundant energy source on or just below the moons surface, samples brought back xx years ago shown possible new substance h3 heavy deuterised hydrogen or the element 115? (correct me if i am wrong) show amazing potential. instead of the risk of mining/personnell/logistics/cost/hazards etc what better way than broach surface with barometric warhead, sending and ejecting huge quantities into low moon orbit. have hoover type spacecraft and away you go. it seems all clued up nations are gunning to get there asap. just a thought.
i accept big things are going on when you join the dots and are aware of increased activities. furthermore i take the opinion that how one looks and reacts to the world and the unseen/unknown is of vital importance to coming to terms with experiences. i feel any sinister actions from malevolent forces will be countered by those who give a damn in their own way. you just never know mac269, i am a firm believer in everything happens for a reason! regards to age and the end of life, i wish you a beautiful death when the time comes, please remember this but while we are here we can share freely and deny the ignorance sweeping the planet on its daily business!
regards cdi.

posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by cdi

Dear cdi

I am not planning to pop my clogs for a few years may be but as I said this is not a worry for me. It being really stupid to worry about the inevitable. It’s the getting old be that gives me the pip.

Anyway back to the moon, a while ago I read a thread on here about possible construction on the moon I sure it will still be around, and one of the main people on there was John Lear. See if you can find it there are a lot of pages with wonderful photograph.

Anyway the point being that quite a few people think that the moon is anything but deserted. Now as with all these things there is no certainty but never the less if should a thing where even remotely possible I would not like to piss them off by bombing their home.

Too use a hover type spacecraft would certainly take tech that we know nothing about. I am prepared to except that they are just looking for water because with that then a base is possible. With water you can make O2, fuel many necessities of life.

Anyway time will tell.


posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 10:10 AM
reply to post by MAC269

hi mac269
many thanks for the reply. i hope you live as long as i to see things unfold. with regards to the moon, i really hope they have done a risk assessment on this matter. i agree that if there is a presence on the moon the kast thing we need is to rile them up. welcome to the wonderful universe of exo-politics! are you aware of the question mark surrounding phobos? another probe is due to be launched sometime in the near future so i for one will be taking an interest in that one.
regards cdi.

posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 09:02 PM
reply to post by cdi

Dear cdi

No what are they doing with Phobos??

My big problem is the secret thing.

I see many sign’s that point to a duel reality one based on 1950’s tech and one that is questionably more advanced than we could have achieved alone.

Humanity has gone from the first manned powered flight in 1903 to landing on the moon just 66 years later. Two world wars helped achieve that.

After the last moon landing some 30 odd years ago nothing. We just have plodded along using tech that was around in the 1950’s. Anyway that is the official story.

Anyway if there is this alternate reality, why?

The simple fact that it has cost money beyond our imagination to keep this secret is what is bothering me.

It’s the reason for the secret that is the bother and I fear it can’t be good.


posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 07:32 AM
reply to post by MAC269

hi mac269
the russians sent two probes to phobos. this was in the 60's? apparently they were destroyed or could possibly have just broken down.
this is still an enigma to me. some photos that were released showed unusual shadow like object closing in on one of the probes, almost missile-like in form before contact was severed. i believe the information is on the site if you do some digging. i myself spent some considerable time studying the anomalie. the actual satellite/rock phobos situated in orbit around mars has some very unusual markings/tracks. again i can only speculate as to what it could be. in my minds eye i feel this is a mining facility and it is hands off! i could very well be wrong but until proved otherwise it remains an unanswered topic like all others. with regards to secrecy, some of the best truths are wrapped in layer upon layer of lies. this only perpetuates more speculation. with the 50's tech question, multi-nationals will not stand for a free-energy market. there will be no profit in allowing free energy systems. to say the powers that be have got the planet by the balls is an understatement.
secrecy is necessary in all forms i am afraid to say. this is an unfortunate situation but look at the world from outside the box and try to see the truths given to populations already struggling with living costs, upheavals,wars etc. i for one think it is not quite the time for revealing just yet. maybe we are already in the pipeline and the next few years will show. another consideration is that the powers will not allow this but will the off worlders force this? either way it will be wise to prepare for any and all scenarios as much as one can.
regards cdi.

posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 08:25 PM
reply to post by cdi

Dear cdi

Yes like what JP Morgan did with Tesla all those years ago, when he found that there was no way to put a meter on for all the energy created he stopped funding Tesla’s project.

However now of all times is the time even as far as the USA is concerned for cheap or free on shore energy.

For me it comes down to the very nature of a secret.

Why does anybody keep a secret??

More often than not to protect themselves. So if it is the US government that is keeping the secret then it is them that fear the people of the US. In the beginning I am sure that the paranoid military where trying to hide such things from the Russian. But as we know most of what they knew the US knew and visa versa.

Ok there is the money thing and I am sure that is part of it. One just can’t have the population being able to create all the free energy they need. That would never do.

The USA is governed by corporations and therefore most of the world and this is becoming very dangerous. Unfortunately I can’t see a way to change that without billions of deaths. But change it must if Humanity is to have a future.

However this requires a change in fundamental human nature. The world has to work together for the good of humanity not for personal gain. Great thinkers of the past have seen this and there ideas have failed because of human nature it’s self.

If I get a chance I will look into that Phobos thing.


posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:11 PM
reply to post by MAC269

hi mac269
i could not agree more with your statements. it seems that the perpetual push for greed and control has brought us all to this juncture in history. personal gain will go out of the window sooner or later. there is no other way for the people of planet erde to survive. it is gonna take a global event of considerable proportions to either shock or persuade the governments and people to change their attitudes. methinks a possible scenario would be an intervention of sorts warning us to get our act together remember 2010? i hope if and when this happens it is sincere and without any malevolence.
regards cdi.

posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:36 PM
Well the best I can say is that, while it may be hard to do, you simply accept that you don't know everything.

You're right when you speak about neither religion nor science having a firm leg to stand on. Most of it is theories and hypothesis. But those theories are ALWAYS changing. How many times have the scientists had to go back to the drawing board because some "wacko" scientist came up with a theory or experiment that turned out to be true? And how do they not know that they aren't mistaken when they think they've found the cause to an effect wasn't really the effect of some other cause? I don't think they do.

I don't believe that we will EVER have all of the answers and, some may whole heartedly disagree with me on this, but as long as you can't prove something doesn't exist then it very well possible could be.

I could say I believe unicorns exists (although I don't) and there's no way to prove it either way. They could very well exist on another planet somewhere. You can say life doesn't exist on any other planet but you can't prove that and it is very well possible.

Most scientists will say that the very existence of life is impossible (or at least extremely improbable) and if something that is thought to be too impossible or improbable to exist and IT DOES exist, then it's possible and even very probable for many other things we think to be otherwise to exist.

That's just my opinion though. Have you ever read the logical proof that God exists? It's a pretty sound theory. But guess what, there's also a sound logic proof that he doesn't exist. Can both be true at the same time? I think so.

The more scientists come up with these theories and laws the more they prove the metaphysical side of reality to be very real and worthy of attention. All matter is is a physical manifestation of the metaphysical. Of energy and light. You slow light down, you get matter. Energy NEVER completely dissipates, it just continues on and on.

You can never fully destroy the atoms and molecules that make up a form of matter, but you can turn it into something else. Burn a piece of wood and your still left with ash. You can even scatter the ashes, but they still exist. So the wood still exists, just in a different form.

You should definitely watch Nassim Haramein. When you have a lot of time. Because the video of his lecture on youtube contains about 45 10 minute parts but it is worth EVERY SECOND. His work is being peer reviewed right now because he believes he has found the answer to the unified field theory. It involves physics, fractals, sacred geometry, science, etc. He ties it all together.

I too struggle with the implications of many of the things you and I have said. It's hard to reconcile it with "real life". How do you just go about the daily grind when you KNOW (or believe you know) all this stuff.

I walk to the post box and look around me and think, dude, there could be an alien looking at me right now. Or I could be doing this same thing in a different pair of shoes in another universe this very moment. I should be able to not have to even use a key to open the mail box. I should be able to reach my hand right in and pull it out.

How the heck do I just walk back into work after that 3 minutes of thinking about all this stuff and just sit at my desk and get back to work and life? How does any of this affect me? I don't know.

Like my boyfriend says, there is such a thing as going so far down the rabbit hole that none of this even applies to your life anymore. I think he's right. But, what if he's wrong?


posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:24 PM
reply to post by nunya13

hi nunya13
i cannot counter anything you state in your post. i am always intrigued by anomalies, the theory of everything, benoir setts,probability etc. i feel we are at a junction in history where information is unfolding and revealing itself at an accelerated rate.
with regards to ones rationality when seeing the unusual, i for one struggled in my teens to balance the so called normal uneventful repetition of everyday life with the scattered spontaneous sightings i witnessed. the majority of these events i have kept to myself. over time i have learnt that ones attitude to these things is the most important factor in keeping a balanced rationality. i for one do not wish to end up window licking!
regards cdi

posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:34 PM
yeah this unrelenting search for truth is all consuming, with too many dead ends and is driving me nuts....

I break out of it once and a while and go get tipsy at karaoke, then relaise i have not much to say except comments about weather and which songs I like, as no other conversations seem to be relavent or logicla or neccessary to my never ending truth hunger...

I guess I am no help at all, lol.....

I miss the days of liking what cool pictures I had on my underwear and doing my hair for hours and make up and dressing up..... I miss those days of ignorant bliss too....

Caring about soap operas and the latest fads and gossip....that life seems sooooo far away...yes.....ignorance WAS bliss, but now it seems to be some drive I can't escape...the truth searching........ahhhhhh!


posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:18 PM
reply to post by mellisamouse

hello mellisamouse
i do enjoy the tipsy but only at weekends when all is done and dusted. i get silly and giddy for a bit then usually snore all night whilst dribbling all over the pillow. it shows in the morning like a posse of slugs have decided to pay me a visit. cannot remember being drunk and having a sighting.
regards cdi.

posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:35 PM
Ms. Insanity was a tough opponent for me. But when I finally won the battle over her, she became my ally.

I hope that what I have to say here helps you win the battle and win a powerful ally.

The concept of insanity is man-made (all concepts are man-made), it is not an intrinsic characteristic. Indeed, there is no such thing as insanity, since the only thing there is is Reality. Reality is not intrinsic though, it is subjective, we create our reality. We have our takes on Reality. It is all about perspective and EVERY perspective is true and has its own internal logic.

This concept of insanity is a powerful tool used by culture and society to "hold you back", its psychological terrorism. Same things happens with the word reality in most cases. "Be real!" they say. When what they are really saying is: "We are the system. You are our slave. You cannot go anywhere or we will whip you until you ask for mercy."

I believe there are no such thing as personality disorders. I think it is all about choices. Sadly, most people choose unconsciously because they don't even realize they have choices.

Take this sword and finish Ms. Insanity!

posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:50 PM
reply to post by SaturnFX

hey its funny i was thinking about something along the same lines when i was down stairs( 10 mins ago ). but the part where you said you were progressing threw this material world and all of the sudden it came to a train wreck stop, reminded me of 4 months ago, when my life or what i thought a life was at the time came to a stop and being only 20 years old i did not know how to cope with it for a few days i was literally going crazy in my mind. i could not talk to any one of my friends about it b/c they would not understand.. but slowly i started to understand more and more about everything ( i know that seems broad ) and realized i know nothing, or at least what is truly important ( in my opinion ). but the was i look at it now is that instead of having a split personality, i think of it as two different realities.
in which i mean all i do in my free time is read about anything that has caught my attention and also keep up with the news and w/e else is going on in the universe and then ill go out hang w/ my friends ( who are slowly started to realize what is going on )...

so where am i going with all this..... i am simply waiting for the days that these two realties meet.....
kinda just rambled for a while ... hope this helped at all..

peace love and the pursuit of enlightenment

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