Arrested For Asking A Policeman For His Badge Number

reply to post by burntheships


Excellent thread, but I wonder if all these people feel so strongly about this movement why didn't they just rush and mob the small police force? I mean obviously the police used excessive force, so I know I would personally rush the police contingent to free the women. I mean are these people just trying to be kind of passive about this? Because honestly that gets you no where in this world, especially in cases and situations like this. This is just IMO though. Force is best met with FORCE

EDIT to add: I do not know of the constitutional laws in the UK, but I assume they are similar to the US, but I can not comment further on this.

[edit on 6/22/2009 by jkrog08]

I'm not the kind of person that yells out stuff like "cops only target blacks" or anything (plus the women in this vid is white, thats proof they dont) but I grew up in oakland and pretty much all black area and I have witnessed this kind of stuff UNCOUNTABLE times happening to my black friends when we were doing ABSOLUTELY nothing, and I don't hang around any druggies, drug dealers, thugs or anything. And I know they were targeting my friends because this has probably happend around 50 or more times since I was young and not once have they ever harrassed me its always my black friends, and I just happen to be white, so I don't think its just coincidence that they dont mess with me.

I want to like the cops and I want to believe they are good and all they want to do is "protect and serve" but I've seen so much corruption from them with my own eyes I almost have a seething hatred for police now.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by jouseroni]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by skibtz

 

Violence begets violence.

Who said anything about violence?

Let's give them big hugs and kisses. An avalanche of love! Those macho animals would run for their lives!

Also, violence begets violence is a nice saying with a touch of consonance and little substance. Still valid though I guess

Violence has been a major influence in evolution for millions of years in the universe.

And then there is the argument that until we reach a point of total violence we will never have total peace. Another nice saying with a little consonance and little substance but again perfectly valid nevertheless.

If officers and their departments budgets are being hurt due to idiotic acts by uniformed employees, the only real way to curb such stupidity is to make them pay for their reckless and irresponsible behavior.

department budget = my tax money - I will not separate the two.

I doubt that governments would tolerate having to foot the bill for violent acts being perpetrated on their citizens by overzealous officers. In time what will happen is that departments themselves will be forced to curb these atrocious acts by officers.

That's why they spend millions policing the event with dirty animals rather than letting a protest go ahead peacefully and without incident: it is the police that incite the riot IMO.

They do not care about the money. What do you think happens when a budget is reached? Oh, sorry, the police in this area have no money so there will be no police presence until next year when the new budget comes in to effect?

Yes fight, but fight the right way.

Cool. How does that work?

[edit on 23/6/2009 by skibtz]

Originally posted by fatdad
people at protests should always have someone hiden from the cops view secretly filming the cops..
then when something nasty happens the cops cant take the camera....

The animals can't take your camera unless they suspect it to be stolen goods or you are using the camera as a weapon, or to film police anti-terror operations/operatives or to collect data that could be used for acts of terrorism.

Any animal that takes your camera outside of the above reasons will be open to a police complaint from the public and a pat on the back from their bosses!

[edit on 23/6/2009 by skibtz]

reply to post by jkrog08


I know I can not advocate violence as it could lead to irreversible harm to an innocent citizen...

But along the lines of what you are talking about...everyone should take a look at this...as it show an incident that just happened over the last couple of days...I have never seen anything like this.

Wow just wow...brave people! Watch this, it is only about 5 minutes.

In June 2009, Shishou was rocked by violent protest after a man was found dead, allegedly of suicide, in a government-affiliated hotel.[1]

The man, Xu Yuan'gao, a relative of the Shishou mayor, was found on June 17, 2009.[1]

[2]Xu's family refused to call his death a suicide and accept compensation and guarded his body while awaiting investigation. When police and Local residents joined in, blocking the hotel entrance from the police, who wanted to take away Xu's body. On June 19, over 40,000 local residents guarded the hotel, fighting with the police, including armed police. Confrontations between the police and residents continued outside the hotel, and on June 20, the municipal government began cutting internet connections in Shishou. On June 21, the police managed to break through the crowd and took Xu's corpse to a crematorium, apparently without giving the family the investigation it had requested.

Source:Wikipedia
www.abovetopsecret.com
blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

So while this is not the U.K. or the U.S. it was CHINA! These people somehow managed to get a big enough crowd...so big and so full of force that the police retreated. I am sure there will be investigations...

Do not try this at home...also do not try this in the U.K. or the U.S.A
Do not try it alone either...

reply to post by skibtz


To fight the right way means you must use your head instead of your fists. Obviously you are probably not better armed than the police. So shooting your way to being right isn't going to work.

Yes police in a protest are going to try and start a fight. This is a tactic. You must know this when dealing with police in a large group. They are going to try and intimidate you and make you throw the first punch. That way anything they do to the protesters is nice and legal.

In a protest setting, the police have even been known to put plain clothed officers in the crowd just to start trouble.

Again, tactics.

Know thy enemy. They are looking for a fight, they are looking for any excuse to do whatever they like to you. It is your job and task to not give them that opportunity.

If you are in a protest situation, and you see someone who is trying to start a fight with an officer. Do whatever you can to isolate the individual from the group. It may be that this is the plant that the cops have sent in to work up the crowd.

If a police officer touches you, brushes you, etc, have him arrested on the spot for assault and battery. Call the other officers over to complain about the officer touching you. Tell them if he is not arrested you will file formal charges with the District Attorney, and contact internal affairs. Always stay calm and tell the other officers about the assault. Do not deviate, get witnesses and if all else fails feign injury.

What this does is keeps the officers on their toes. It makes them retreat to a defensive stance instead of an offensive stance.

It's a subtle chess game, you must use your brain instead of brawn to win the day when confronting police officers.

Once violence starts the battle is lost. The police will eventually win and people will get hurt. It's more important to make your strategy work for you instead of working against your cause.

I notice the police involved are humans. Scared people in conflict situations make bad decisions. No, it's not "right", but it is inevitable. If you are headed into a conflict situation expect conflict. The protesters appeared to behave admirably. One (two?) policemen did not appear to. Sometimes it's the other way around. We've all got a "bad police" story, a "bad medic" story, a "bad shop assistant" story.
The important parts are (once all the evidence is gathered, not just a video excerpt) how are these officers dealt with? How do we improve the quality of our policing? How do we improve the quality of policing the policemen?
ps. Here's my "bad police" story. Friend of mine was just the sort of guy you'd want as a policeman. Very cool guy. Reflective, intelligent, caring (and built like a brick xxxxhouse). After a few years as an officer in a UK police force he was asked to prepare a study. The subject: masonic influence in regional force X. He's good, he found plenty. The study was supressed and he aint a policeman any more. Evenin' all.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by Myrmecobius]

there has got to be more to the story.. it seems inserted

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by burntheships

 

That would be illegal in my country, and probably yours - you can always ask a policeman for his badge number.

Or can you? Its a chance you take in this day and age.....it was all for not, Big brothers true colors are coming out more and more as time ticks by

reply to post by whatukno

If a police officer touches you, brushes you, etc, have him arrested on the spot for assault and battery. Call the other officers over to complain about the officer touching you. Tell them if he is not arrested you will file formal charges with the District Attorney, and contact internal affairs. Always stay calm and tell the other officers about the assault. Do not deviate, get witnesses and if all else fails feign injury.

What this does is keeps the officers on their toes. It makes them retreat to a defensive stance instead of an offensive stance.

Very appropriate advice! Remember also, that an angry crowd yelling and taunting a few police officers make great news casts! Your true message will be entirely forgotten, and that is the ultimate goal of TPTB!

Some years ago, a friend and I were walking along a busy street in broad daylight. A police car came up behind us, put the siren on and drove up onto the footpath and stopped.

They kept their lights flashing while both of them exited the car with their little pads and pens and proceeded to ask my friend and I our names. We were obvious targets because we both sported mohawks.

I asked the police officer why he wanted our names to which he wouldn't answer. I asked him if I should give him my name, how would I know what he does with it afterwards... where does it go... for what purpose? Again he refused to answer the question directly. Instead he just said it's public relations.

I said "Public Relations?" To all the people passing us by on the streets now, you've just succeeded in making us both look like common criminals!"

I told him I was aware than under the laws to which they must abide, I am not obliged to give him my name unless there is a charge. I asked him if he wished to take me down the station and press charges against me for walking along the street with a mohawk.

I could see him and his partner were starting to get tense and short of words. I asked him the question again. He did not answer so I said, "No, I thought not"... "Can you please write your name and badge number down for me please... I wish to make a complaint about you". "Under law, I believe that is your obligation".

Both of them then proceeded to write their badge numbers down. I asked to then look at the badges to ensure that the information they had supplied me with was correct. I took the paper and thanked them for their cooperation.

As they went to hop back into their car, the police officer I did most of the talking with said "If ever you have trouble and need to call the police, pray to god it's not me and my partner here".

I said, "I'll remember that officer (whatever his name was)!" I'll also be telling that to my uncle who is in charge of internal affairs"! "Have a great night!"

So that my friends is how you handle these little upstart constables who think they are a law unto themselves. I live in Australia and thankfully we can still exercise our rights.

IRM

[edit on 24/6/09 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by Myrmecobius
I notice the police involved are humans.

Humans are quite adept at acting like animals - especially in packs.

They just can't help it I'm afraid.

reply to post by whatukno


That is all very well but the women in the OP's video were not violent, were respectful and asking other police officers present for assistance in identifying the unknown animal.

The response: the women were attacked and imprisoned for 4 days away from their families. They received no identification or assistance from the attending police officers.

Nice going.

Tell me, hypothetically, if an alien presence came to Earth in order to destroy humanity and claim the planet as their own, would we be entitled to resort to violence?

I would have thought so. An out-there example but the point being that violence is sometimes required, justified and indeed demanded for in order to install a peace and ensure an existence.

[edit on 24/6/2009 by skibtz]

reply to post by skibtz

Tell me, hypothetically, if an alien presence came to Earth in order to destroy humanity and claim the planet as their own, would we be entitled to resort to violence?

I would have thought so. An out-there example but the point being that violence is sometimes required, justified and indeed demanded for in order to install a peace and ensure an existence.

You answered your own question.

However what your missing is that police aren't usually there to kill you. Really they aren't. The police in the op video wasn't trying to kill the woman, he was just trying to restrain her.

It's all about tactics and situational awareness.

Have you read the art of war?

Originally posted by whatukno
You answered your own question.

Not sure what you mean - honestly

However what your missing is that police aren't usually there to kill you. Really they aren't. The police in the op video wasn't trying to kill the woman, he was just trying to restrain her.

Who said anything about killing?

I said 'destroy'. Now you don't have to kill some someone to destroy them. You just need to remove their rights. Take away their freedom. Treat them as anything but human.

The animals in the OP were just that - animals. Taking away people's rights (to protest & record), freedom (to be in a public place) and treating those women as sub-human.

These are not people that you can communicate with, as evidenced in the OP. They are not people you can compromise with, as evidenced in the OP. They are not people you can trust to protect you, as evidenced in the OP.

They are animals. Pure and simple. Probably nice people at home, with their partners and kids and friends and family on any other day.

But on that day in that role they were animals and should be treated as such.

Trust me, I have a healthy respect for the law - those animals showed nothing of the kind on that day. Not for themselves, the job, the police force, the public or those women in particular.

It's all about tactics and situational awareness.

I do not need to read a book in order to deal with animals. I trust my basic human instincts to protect and serve my fellow (wo)men.

[edit on 24/6/2009 by skibtz]