Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by JayinAR

I don't think that the CIA has the best interests of Americans in mind.

Any revolution here in the States directed by the CIA would not become a change for the better. Just my opinion of course and really sorta' irrelevant to the topic of Iranian revolution.

Although it is my opinion that the CIA is likely involved there.

The CIA came into existance after the Federal Reserve. So the agenda of the CIA is most likely to be that of the Fedeeral Reserve.

If the Agenda of the Federal Reserve is to break up the United States then what better way than to bog down the military industrial complex in a never ending war in the middle east?

The war in Iraq has been played out as far as it could go. And how long can they really stretch the war in Afghanistan?

The timing of the Iranian revolution is fortunate I would say. It should be an easy sell to move troops from Iraq to Iran to help quell the civil war. Maybe the middle east powers that be will even fund US military involvement.

What are thier choices?

[edit on 21-6-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Civil war between:

arab militia + parts of Iranian army + other regime thugs VS parts of Iranian army + Iranian protestors

What could the US do in this situation apart from sit it out. If the Iranian people's side begin to lose then action is plausible.

Being an American veteran, of course, I hate war. However, I would give my life for freedom, for my friends...

If the regime in Iran is destabilizing, we would be wrong to fail to support our friends. Our country should support our friends in Iran. To do otherwise would be disloyal to the causes of human rights and freedom. To turn away from our friends as they are slaughtered and incarcerated is cowardice. Let the US never be known as a coward, or as too cash-poor to help a friend.

Many Iranians live in the US. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. As the currently the greatest superpower on earth, we have a responsibility to support goodness and right. Please, have heart, take on the courage to help your friend, even as you struggle with recession.

My great gggg grandfather fought in the American Revolution. Had he and his courageous friends not done so, we would still not be free.... When history looks back in time at the great democracy that was the United States, (should it ever fail), let it be said that they were there for their friends, they were there to stand for the cause of freedom, and they sacrificed their time, talents and treasures for the good of man.

What greater legacy can there be? Jesus said, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend."

Never underestimate the courage of the American soldier.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

The Tanks in Tehran report is DisInfo and not a legitimate report. Please Be careful of what you pass on as you may be helping spread disinfo to scare away the people of Iran from standing up for free democracy.

Originally posted by Terapin
The Tanks in Tehran report is DisInfo and not a legitimate report. Please Be careful of what you pass on as you may be helping spread disinfo to scare away the people of Iran from standing up for free democracy.

The source is not known for its regime propaganda.

IMHO tanks entered Tehran and later left, that would explain why many sources confirmed, and later became unconfirmed especially on twitter.

Could be Khamenei panicked after Iranians began to shout death to khamenei. Who knows?

Originally posted by Jakes51

Originally posted by jar11
reading this thread gives me a tight feeling in my chest. Why the hell does the world have to be this way? I just can't wrap my head around it.

I mean I can "understand" (for lack of a better word) the greed by corrupt government jerks. but why do the military and police get involved? Don't they have families? Are they supporters of a regime such as this? All it would take is the military and the police to revolt and turn on the government and then where's the power to enforce anything? The police and military are just regular people too! What the hell kind of regular person wants to enforce this?

I use that as a vomit as opposed to a flame.

I guess it really comes down to brainwashing and fear. So what else is new?

Very well put and yes the men in both the armed services and police are Iranians. I find it troubling too that they don't stand with the people. However, if they decide to mutiny and the revolution goes south they are at risk of getting executed for their crimes and their families will be destitute. So, I see them not standing with the people out of caution at present and it is to close to pick sides but done the road it could be possible.

Yeah I can understand their fear of that. However, if everyone - or even the majority of the military/police started fighting back against the governments there's no one left to execute anyone. And the actual men behind the scenes don't have the kahungas to put a bullet in anyones head. They like to send out their thugs to do the dirty work and sit back and get off on the power they think they have. I know it's very much wishful thinking for this type of revolution. A man can dream can't he?

Regardless, I am happy about the Iranian protests that are happening now, it really shows that we're not always going to sit back and eat up every damn thing they dish out. I am waiting for that big bold move that government here in America tries to pull, like taking away our internet or some other major freedom we enjoy so much and the protests start.

I am confident the people of this world still have a good chance of winning and I'm going to hold on to that hope until the very end. Sorry for the long post. :-)

Originally posted by john124


Iranians I spoken to say they want the whole system changed top to bottom. That means not just a new supreme leader. So maybe getting rid of Khamenei wont be enough, but Mousavi becoming president will be what they wanted in the first place, and should prevent more deaths.

.

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs.
War veterans and those who took part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built.

Who knows how this will finish .

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by john124


Iranians I spoken to say they want the whole system changed top to bottom. That means not just a new supreme leader. So maybe getting rid of Khamenei wont be enough, but Mousavi becoming president will be what they wanted in the first place, and should prevent more deaths.

.

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs.
War veterans and those who took part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built.

Who knows how this will finish .

True this may end up starting an even bigger conflict more specifically between those two factions. So replacing the supreme leader in this way may just be opening up a pandoras box.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

They act as if they have absolutely NO freedom at all when they are allowed to use the Internet to spread their biased mistruths, listen to whatever music they want, walk around in any clothing they desire,

1. They cant drink
2. Women must wear dark clothing
3. Women must cover there hair
4. Women must NOT wear makeup
5. You are NOT allowed American TV/Movies
6. You are NOT allowed to be born Muslim, but convert to christianity
7. You are NOT allowed to elect your WANTED PRESIDENT.

You call this freedom?
1. No protests
2. No media
3. No internet
4. Uni's and dorms raided and smashed by government basij
5. Protestors SHOT AND KILLED
6. Protestors Arrested and beaten
7. Political candidates arrested and beaten
8. Refusal for re'election
9

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there are a few points above which are not just true for Iran.

1. There are a number of countries which ban alcohol for social and political reasons, and they're not Muslim countries. Even in WA we've got towns with total alcohol bans because, of course, the government knows what's best for these people.

2, 3 and 4. Having been to Iran a couple of times, this comes down to personal choice by the family (although usually the male). Wearing a burkah is not a religious icon from Islam - it is a social thing.

7. Remember GWBush's first election fraud? He only got elected through nepotism. Do you think in this case the American people were 'allowed' to have their elected president?

1. No protests? Do you remember American protests during the Vietnam War? They were suppresed by the national guard, and people died. This sounds fairly similar to what's going on in Iran at the moment...

3. No internet? Sounds fairly similar to the Australian government's 'clean feed' idea, where they want to screen all incoming internet pages, and only let through what they think is appropriate - don't you think this opens it up to all sorts of corruption?

5 and 6. Same as during Vietnam War protests.

8. Were the American people allowed a re-election after GWBush committed electoral fraud for his first term?

You can't really nominate all of these problems with Iran. It happens in America, it happens all the time in Israel - these problems are not exclusive to Islamic countries... there are plenty of examples in the Western nations...

Rewey

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Rewey]

I just read a news report on 67-odd men who are going to whipped in Saudi Arabia, because they are cross-dressers. Saudi Arabia is another Islamic country, with very strict sharia law, which still carries out public beheadings and executions. Why is it then that Saudi Arabia is deemed on the West's biggest 'friends', but Iran is not?

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Rewey]

A couple of things

1. There are a number of countries which ban alcohol for social and political reasons, and they're not Muslim countries. Even in WA we've got towns with total alcohol bans because, of course, the government knows what's best for these people.

Yes, but in Iran your likely to be jailed if you have wine/beer.
They do this for religious reasons.
In remote western Australia, we do this because aboriginal communities spend all there money on booze, instead of their children.
elders getting drunk every night results in kids being raped and killed.

2, 3 and 4. Having been to Iran a couple of times, this comes down to personal choice by the family (although usually the male). Wearing a burkah is not a religious icon from Islam - it is a social thing.

It used to, but Ahmadinejad brought in new laws.
Dark clothing must be worn
Burqa's must be worn
If too much hair is showing, or makeup is on, the female police warn you and tell you to remove it.
There are many cases that if you walk off and don’t do it, they come and slit your face, to shame and spite you.
Yes, it WAS like that, but in the last few years the current government brought back all makeup/clothing laws.

7. Remember GWBush's first election fraud? He only got elected through nepotism. Do you think in this case the American people were 'allowed' to have their elected president?

American people seemed to roll over and accept it, I think they were to busy with Big brother, or American Idol.
Which ever came first.

1. No protests? Do you remember American protests during the Vietnam War? They were suppressed by the national guard, and people died. This sounds fairly similar to what's going on in Iran at the moment...

People were voting against a war in which there sons were fighting.
Today’s riot are people fighting for there freedoms, for there future.
I agree in concept, but they are driven by completely different things.

3. No internet? Sounds fairly similar to the Australian government's 'clean feed' idea, where they want to screen all incoming internet pages, and only let through what they think is appropriate - don't you think this opens it up to all sorts of corruption?

Yeah, im not for internet feed, not in a single way.
But your allowed to criticise your leaders in Aus, if you do it at the moment in Iran, you'll cop a beating. Keeping child porn out is different from blocking news and keeping your opinions in.

You can't really nominate all of these problems with Iran. It happens in America, it happens all the time in Israel - these problems are not exclusive to Islamic countries... there are plenty of examples in the Western nations...

Im not usually one to quote each paragraph, I just felt perhaps you visisted Iran prior to the current regime.
It was nice and a bit 'more free' but that’s changed in the last 5-6 years.

And your right, each country has problems like this, for example, I think it was Fiji, or some pacific nation.
They rioted and blockaded streets for weeks, eventually the elected leader stood down accepting the people didn’t want him.
Do you really think the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad are just going to step down?



[edit on 22-6-2009 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by audas
Ahmedinijad was leading in the polls prior the elections, and all indicators are that he won a significant majority - so why are the people protesting ?

Well over 60% of total US expenditure is on domestic and foriegn propaganda aimed at regime change - the name of this is CIA.


You have huge protests supporting Ahmadinijad - where is the coverage of this ?

I can not believe what I am watching, I can not believe that people are falling for the same trick again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again - when will you wake up!?

What?!!! The regime are the ones trying the same trick of lying over and over again. This is the first really moronic comment I've read on this thread.

If Ahmadinejad won why are all these people protesting against him, why the need to use violence, why not just do a proper recount or just run the election again?

If so many support Ahmadinejad then would these protests not be seen as insulting to them and therefore vote for him again, and maybe increase his vote count???

Hmmm it seems you haven't thought about this whole situation one bit.

The Ahmadinejad rallies had 20,000 people max. Compare that to the 3 million out last Monday rallying for the opposition.

Oh and don't forget the arabs who aren't even Iranian on the side of the regime that were flown in from Lebanon. Even with extra outside support, Ahmadinejad's rallies were tiny in comparison. So there's the answer to your question about where's the coverage of his large rallies. It just never happened. You fell for the regime propaganda and constant lies about Ahmadinejad winning.

You have no evidence of CIA involvement whatsoever.

This is simply not true - the rallies supporting Ahmedinijad have been significantly larger - it is almost the entire country as it is the poor rural people who support him as opposed to the wealthy upper class of Tehran and the students - consider this - the largest backer of Mousavi owns most of the Universities in Iran - students ?

Almost all polls, including US polls showed Ahmedinijad was going to win and did win. So answer your won question - why should there be a recount because the CIA is causing trouble amongst the wealthy elite who are screaming "rigged" - this is EXACTLY what happened in Venezuela and other countries - why should there be a recount or any other action when foreign secret services are simply stirring up trouble for their own purposes ?

Finally Iran has been the primary focus of global media and US foreign policy for the past 5 years - as if the CIA ISNT involved in the country - if the CIA is not involved in the country then it would be the most radical intelligence failure of all time - so even common sense tells us that they are involved.

Propaganda and regime change is the primary mandate of the CIA and the primary focus is IRAN - put two and two together for once.
OR should that be Agent.......

you know what i think you are in the right direction of thinking Ive never wrote on here before but for some reason i just think there's more to the story we don't really know whats going on we cant trust cnn or msm really because once again they gotta make pay checks i just think this is bigger than we can think i think the government our government(u.s) has something to do with this. idk just fishy that we are so focused on Iran i am one of the people not against the people if this ever were to happen in America i would be in the mix i think we kinda need a revolution but a different kind one more ultimtie freedom freedom from the mind of what it perceives freedom to truly live and think as we wont as you can see it cant last anymore to me the time of me the time of money of control is dying the people have had enough we as Americans should know whats going on better than anyone we broke free once from a government long before they say history repeats it self the word change is something of big importance in the world today CHANGE this is right now on some real s***t look around to the climate to the laws to the universe to our genes its changing an we are watching this before our eyes this happens everywhere in the world why are we so focused on iran i mean it dosent make sense to me that we go into iraq looking for nukes dont find them were still there doing god knows what i guess where trying to make a democracy over there or what ever for those guys dont know if they even want it i mean than n.korea is testing them an were just chilling on some other type of laid back shi t it dosent add up than iran is talking about nukes an shi t and the people are getting there hearts and are figuring out how stupid the world is government is the rule of law it is a figment of our imagination i think these people have figured it out everything in the world can be traced to the same line it all falls together there has to be a reason well anyway am just a open minded college student expressing how i view things cant wait till we as Americans just have enough of this political bull # that controls not only our future but our feeling s all of this nonsense in the world is furthering us away from the main reason...why who are we why are we here? pain love what does it mean these are what we need to be focused on not this religion or how ever you like to think life as only kills creativity of the mind we often lock our selves in position an close our mind to possibles why cant everyone just stop what ever they are doing an ask them selves some questions like who am i what am i doing you will find that theirs much more important things than disagreeing with each other we are different all of us not agreeing is natural its explains our uniqueness we need to become more creative not more destructive more peaceful war only makes more war look i know people gonna argue with this stuff my first post hope you guys dont kill me lol but hey am from philly so fuc k it ill just rock out ya diggggg!