2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

reply to post by burntheships


US declares that the bonds are fake and that the world is saturated with fake bonds. Makes a perfect excuse not to pay off any of them. That takes care of our debt situation.

On the other hand Japan willclaim they were stolen from their treasury and that they are real.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


Is that your theory or from another source? If from a source, provide a link.

cheers

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
reply to post by burntheships

 

US declares that the bonds are fake and that the world is saturated with fake bonds. Makes a perfect excuse not to pay off any of them. That takes care of our debt situation.

On the other hand Japan will claim they were stolen from their treasury and that they are real.

There has to be a procedure for verifying something with a value as high as $500 million before it is credited. And add some of them dated back 40 years an unlikely way for counterfeiters to do their thing.

The theft thing would likely not wash. And if they were stolen, those could be canceled and replaced.

Question outstanding is how the money police got wind of it. A communication with a Swiss Bank?

Seems unlikely but the Japanese just may have thought going a quick low tech smuggling route would not set off alarm bells.

And now I imagine the bills have to be kept as evidence in an ensuing court case.

Mike

Are there any domestic sources from which these bonds could have come from? Ya know, we're just knee deep into this economic crash. While the liar liars keep saying everything is starting to turn around, we haven't even seen the worst of the housing market crash yet. Sure, the subprime crisis is over for the most part, but there is this other BIG mortgage problem looming just over the horizon: OptionARM resets! LOTS of them!

It ain't just foreign governments that hold government debt that should be worried, there could be domestic businesses and private citizens that might want to unload these things too, before the OptionArm implosion.

Think about it. If the Japanese government were the ones trying to unload those bonds, wouldn't they use some diplomat with a diplomatic pouch (which can't be searched) to courier those things about?

As you know, home prices/values have dropped considerably in the last year, and because of this, MANY of them folks with OptionARM prime mortgages aren't going to be able to refinance their homes (because they are upside down already) in order to avoid their new higher payments under their current mortgage terms. THIS will end up being a FAR greater problem than those subprime mortgages .. and that could be the straw that breaks the camels back. CRASH!!!!

Anybody that has been paying REAL attention to what is going on is going to want to unload all their bonds before this happens, and do so without paying taxes .. because what's the point in paying taxes when the entire US government is going to end up bankrupt anyhow when this crash occurs. You're gonna want to unload them things for whatever you can get for them, in some other currency, and deposit your nest egg in a Swiss bank before the USA goes belly up. I know I would!

hi I'm new to this site, I just wanted to give you some insights into this piece of news. I'm from switzerland and often use the train to and from italy where the two japanese were travelling.

First of all, the italian financial police searches these trains on a regular basis, trains crossing the border between italy and switzerland normally stop for 20/30 minutes (at least )at the border to allow for this.
Every time I`ve taken these trains I have been briefly questioned and I have seen other passengers having their bags inspected.

Some have argued that the police had to have been tipped off but I don't believe this would need to be the case.

This italian blog interviewed an officer of the italian financial police stationed at the border area in question
crisis.blogosfere.it...
The officer col. Mecarelli states thats the two men were indeed japanese and they have not been detained but just questioned and then released.
Apparently the police is working with the US secret service.

It is still not clear to me if the certificates seized were bearer bonds, if not, I don't suppose they would qualify for cash equivalent instruments and I suspect no crime was actually committed. This would explain why medias are not reporting on the story.
and yet, the officer states in no uncertain terms that a crime was perpetrated carrying a "fine" of 38 billion euros.

i am puzzled

[edit on 12-6-2009 by barbar.aha]

Update info: Seizure of US government bonds from two Japanese men in Italy raises questions ... some commentators are starting to link the story to reports in US press dating back to 30 March. On that date the US Treasury Department announced that it had about US$ 134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund, the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), whose purpose is to purchase assets and equity to buttress companies in trouble.

Originally posted by Voxel


People on private planes still have to go through customs when they land at another country. Only the contents of diplomatic pouches don't have to be declared.

Jon

This is what i was thinking .

So given the colossal sum of money involved , one would have to assume that this is a government shifting monies on the down-low .

If it was a government .... Why didn`t they use a diplomat to courier the 134 Billion ?

This point is perplexing ...

Of course i`m assuming that the diplomat & the contents of their briefcase , would be afforded some immunity .

This is a major embarrassment to somebody ,as well as a , not unsubstantial loss if the fine is as large as reported .

So, based upon that last news link I posted, what are the chances that this 134.5 billion in matured bonds ARE TARP funds? No wonder they were being so hush hush about where all those funds were going, not telling us much about what went where, to whom, how much, etc. Hey, if this is Obama smuggling TARP funds out of the US into Switzerland, he could be in a lot of trouble! The fine on this alone is staggering (40%) .. and someone is going to be in a lot of trouble.

This is the biggest smuggling case in history, and it's NOT on CNN? (at least I've not heard it mentioned yet)

This is some serious stuff man. If this is TARP money, this is ground to evict Obama! (yippee!)

Another thing that is not making the mainstream?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Iran hold its elections today and Ahmadinejad might lose this time, opposition leader with the most support also opposes the religious Iranian leadership and considers betterment of Iranian relations with the West and primarily the US.

Maybe the money has to do something with that somehow?

[edit on 12-6-2009 by spacebot]

THIS IS UN-F**KINGBELIEVABLE !!!

How do you have 135$ billion dollars in us bonds

Some Us official has to be in this scheme .. no way a foriegn goverment would send 2 men to travel normaly with that type of money..

when they transfer millions they seal them in vaults!!! but 135$ billion O_O

The FEDS , OBAMA ADMINISTRATION , and congress Need to all be questioned and a full investigated for this bull#.

Originally posted by rami2012
The FEDS , OBAMA ADMINISTRATION , and congress Need to all be questioned and a full investigated for this bull#.

Yeah, how much is left in that TARP fund now? ha ha ha ... unreal. Really, there are only 6 possibilities here (those 5 top nations holding our bonds and US). What are the chances that the amount of those bonds equaled what was left in the TARP fund a couple months ago? The fact that this seems to be a story that is being suppressed here in our country is pretty suggestive of who might be behind all this.

Could it be possible that the GANSTERS in DC are funneling money out of the country in whatever means they can (ain't no dollar bills as large as those MATURED BOND, and it ain't so easy to smuggle piles of gold out of the country, assuming there is any left), selling these bonds for other currencies, depositing it into Swiss bank accounts ... and then on that DAY that our government collapses, they all BUG OUT themselves .. to paradises around the world, and live off of what they stoled?

reply to post by Divinorumus



YA! Exactly what i was thinking . People I think the goverment just got F*****.

I cant wait till more people find out...

you guys need to relax

you just hop on every new story and release all of your energy and stress yourself

you need to find a better balance

good luck

Someone is suppressing this story, this possible link to TARP funds too. Start spreading this around .. post a link to THIS THREAD everywhere possible all over the net, and not just domestic sites, but overseas sites too.

What always gets me about stuff like this. If you are doing some that is clearly illegal, why are you doing it on public channels? If I wanted to smuggle that much cash, I would put it in a backpack and hike my way there on foot using backroads or walking across the mountains. But then I don't know much about Swiss geography except that it is in a very defendable valley, so hiking there might not be easy. Still, I imagine one could also fly in as a "tour" plane and parachute to the ground.. Any numberr of ways to avoid capture.

so that means these people are :
* VERY STUPID (must be terrorists :-P)
* Intentionally flooding the market with loose treasury bills by getting caught on purpose
* Both

Maybe just another scam like this :

www.quatloos.com...

Some info from the Treasury:

The second problem affecting country attribution is caused by bearer, or unregistered, securities. Usually, little or no information is available on the owners of these securities because they need not make themselves known. Bearer securities generally cannot be issued in the United States, but U.S. firms can and do issue such securities abroad. The vast majority of the $492 billion in debt securities attributed to owners whose country of residence is unknown are bearer securities.

treas.gove

The Treasury is also planning to make available a facility for the conversion of physically stripped bearer securities into a book-entry form at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. This will reduce the current costs and risks to the market in holding these physical coupons and will improve the liquidity and efficiency of the market. This facility is expected to be available in January 1987. Additional information will be provided in the near future. This new facility will be maintained separately from the Treasury STRIPS program.

1986 treasury report

Also here is a list of US MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES

Thought this was funny, over on this rare currency auction website they sold a $1,000,000 U.S. Treasury Bearer Bond for $1,063,750. Here is what they say about it:

A $1,000,000 thirty year U.S. Treasury bearer bond with twelve coupons affixed which was issued in February of 1977 and called on February 15, 2002. Issued at its face value of $1,000,000, it is still redeemable for this amount and will be until 2047. Bearer bonds have not been issued by the Treasury since 1986, and all bonds issued today are in book entry form, registered to specific individuals or institutions. Prior to selling the Taylor Family Collection we have never had the privilege of offering a bond in this denomination, and we doubt whether enough exist in this unredeemed form that we ever will again, as the cost of keeping this bond as a collectible is one that few in the numismatic fraternity are likely to assume. If you are looking for an item that will afford you the ultimate in "bragging rights," this is definitely an item you should bring home this evening.

source with pic

imagine what could do with all that money if they werent cought

This is a very interesting thread, and good find. I find it very interesting, and it is curious that the MSM hasn't touched on this as yet. So these alleged Japanese nationals had this kind of my money on their person and where headed to the land of the most lax bank laws in the world.

I believe that Japanese government were using these men to dump a significant amount of US dollars into another currency, such as; yuan or maybe Euro. Were did these men get this kind of money if they were acting alone as rogues as some have speculated? Will these men be handed over to the US authorities when the Italians complete their investigation? These are questions I have.

However, as stated earlier; I feel these guys were given government backing for a dry run on dumping the currency if the need arises down the road. Quite possibly the government wanted to see what the affect would be changing over this amount, and if the affects were favorable; to start dumping in earnest down the road.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Jakes51]