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2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

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posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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It's the lead story in Austrian media now!

www.kleinezeitung.at...




posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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I haven't read through all the follow on posts have they determined if in fact they are Japanese yet?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Not that I can find, and in fact, I can't find any story with any new information so far. Wasn't this a week ago already?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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From the Bloomberg report, I'd say they're getting ready to tell us it's a scam. The correlation with TARP funds seems pretty suspicious to me tho - good find.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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The silence is deafening on this one. That short bloomberg article is the only MSM coverage I can find on it. Still no answer as to if the people were Japanese or not. It seems unclear if the they are even in custody. There is absolutely no news on whether the bond is real or not. One of the original sources Asia new did a brief follow up that I don't know has been posted or not here

Not really anything new there and it seems to be repeating some stuff that originated in the blogosphere and ATS.

Still watching though.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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This story has Yakuza written all over it.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Hey, I don't know if anyone's seen this yet but this is more recent.

From Bloomberg


Italy’s financial police said they asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland.


Not a lot added to the story, but at least we know the Italians have asked the US to authenticate. The tone is (thankfully) leading down the road of the bonds being fake. Now the question to move to the who and whys. Not to fear there is still plenty of good speculation to be had that should keep this thread going for a bit.

The NK angle is still pretty relevant and the most dangerous angle if we can rule out Japanese and Chinese bond dumping.

The timing is also pretty interesting the bond market action last week got some attention even from those who find bonds boring with the 10yr spiking.

Oh yeah and the coverup angle has got to be mentioned. Let me get this straigh Colonel Italian finance guy, "You seized $140Billion in instruments from two Japanese nationals on June 3rd, which if real represent a near $40Billion seizure for your governtment, and you're just now getting around to having someone in the country of supposed issue get around to looking at them?"

[edit on 12-6-2009 by jefwane]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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Just asked someone who knows about this stuff. This is a scam or a hoax. More likely the latter. There were scams trying to use these fake "Federal Reserve Bonds" and some of them are still doing the rounds.

But Treasuries of these values don't exist in print. There is just paperwork acknowledging the money has been deposited.

So the two Japanese guys were let go as they were breaking no law. Not illegal to carrying around fakes of non-existent securities or currencies.

Like if they had US Billion dollar bills.

Maybe this was intended as a news generating story. But still possible the two Japanese guys were doing the rounds looking for suckers.

It would be an Asian equivalent of Nigerian scams.


Mike






[edit on 12-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
So the two Japanese guys were let go as they were breaking no law. Not illegal to carrying around fakes of non-existent securities or currencies.

Not true, and quite contrary. Forgery IS a crime and punishable by law. If these were fakes, part of a scam/hoax, they would have been arrested. If on the other hand they were real, then the only crime they are guilty of is not declaring those bonds, which is punishable NOT by arrest/trial/incarceration, but by forfeiture of 40% of those bonds.

Really, since when is perpetrating a hoax NOT a crime? I think you got it backwards.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Couldnt this all be a distraction; Japan & China probably have Trillions in bonds. Lets say these are the falls guy and are supposed to get caught while someone else with 200 billion, 500 billion or 1 trillion in bonds gets to wherever they were going.

Think of it this way would you give up 135 billion to get maybe a trillion or half a trillion.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by mmiichael
So the two Japanese guys were let go as they were breaking no law. Not illegal to carrying around fakes of non-existent securities or currencies.

Not true, and quite contrary. Forgery IS a crime and punishable by law. If these were fakes, part of a scam/hoax, they would have been arrested. If on the other hand they were real, then the only crime they are guilty of is not declaring those bonds, which is punishable NOT by arrest/trial/incarceration, but by forfeiture of 40% of those bonds.

Really, since when is perpetrating a hoax NOT a crime? I think you got it backwards.


You obviously don't understand something simple. You cannot forge a non-existent document. You can produce whatever you want if there is no demonstrable criminal intent like trying to exchange something worthless for bonafide cash or credit.

Let me put in this way, carrying around a billion dollars in US currency with Daffy Duck printed on the bills instead of a President is not against the law.

Mike



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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Another reason they may have been released: *phone rings* "Chao, Colonel Mecarelli." "Hello, this is the office of the Sultan of Brunei. You have two of our men. Would you like a holiday villa, or a complete family funeral?"



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


If it has a government seal on it and all the legal babble printed upon it that attempts to convey that it is REAL, it is ILLEGAL. Do you think you could get away with creating a $200 bill that looks EXACTLY like a $100 bill with the exception of the denomination upon it, even if you never attempted to use it to commit fraud? I don't think so. If you print words such as LEGAL TENDER and put a nations name and seal upon it, you are attempting to create a fake forged instrument, even if it's not the real thing.

Any lawyers here that can clarify this?



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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I can't imagine those bonds are real. If they are stolen, how could you redeem them? It's not like they aren't going to ask questions when somebody they never heard of shows up with $134B bonds and wants it redeemed.

I remember one story a few years ago where bonds of a similar amount (100s of billions) were forged, but that case was remarkable more for the criminals stupidity than anything else; they had forged more bonds of a particular type than had ever existed, and made spelling mistakes on the bonds, and stuff like that, and then trying to redeem them. It isn't unheard of to forge these sorts of bonds, but I can't imagine expecting to get away with it.

A lot of questions are running through my mind about this case, and I think it bears watching. Even though I think it's almost certainly a counterfeit case, the tiny chance that this is real makes it worth watching. If those bonds ARE real, it's one of the biggest stories in a long time.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus
If it has a government seal on it and all the legal babble printed upon it that attempts to convey that it is REAL, it is ILLEGAL. Do you think you could get away with creating a $200 bill that looks EXACTLY like a $100 bill with the exception of the denomination upon it, even if you never attempted to use it to commit fraud? I don't think so. If you print words such as LEGAL TENDER and put a nations name and seal upon it, you are attempting to create a fake forged instrument, even if it's not the real thing.

Any lawyers here that can clarify this?



This is going to bore everyone as I keep explaining what you continually misunderstand. No attempt to deceive anyone with these.

Like official looking coupons only redeemable on Mars.

Added note, as this, if the amounts are right and they were somehow lawful tender, would be the largest dollar amount crime in the history of mankind - and the perpetrators were released, indicates it's not being taken too seriously.

I'm more than prepared to find out I'm wrong on all this, but that's what I see from what we've been told so far.


Mike


[edit on 13-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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The bonds are almost certainly forged or called issues that were stolen. The most obvious question is "who in the hell would accept 134.5 billion dollars of bonds without calling the treasury to make sure they were real?" The answer is no one. They were never intended to be deposited or cashed, the "bust" occured a day before an $11 billion dollar 30 year treasury auction and the "smugglers" were set up by someone who has an interest in shorting the dollar and long bond.

A news story suggesting the US treasury has a previously unknown 134.5 billion dollar obligation would and to a certain extent did do just that.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by drtrader
The bonds are almost certainly forged or called issues that were stolen. The most obvious question is "who in the hell would accept 134.5 billion dollars of bonds without calling the treasury to make sure they were real?" The answer is no one.

That's right, but THAT also makes this more suspicious. Who would try to perpetrate such a ridiculous hoax if these were fake? It would seem pointless to even try. Thus, wouldn't knowing that make it more likely that these are real, and were being used in some kind of illegal transaction that someone was trying to keep a secret? I mean, who in the heck would try to sell Monopoly money as real? THAT sounds more unbelievable than anything. What seems more plausable is that someone was trying to unload what WILL eventually become worthless butt-wipe paper! Anyhow, lets hope we discover the truth .. because it also seems likely that someone will come along with a nice FAKE story to hide the truth too. Watch out for the REAL dis-info agents! "Nothing to see here folks. Everything is under control here. Simon says: please go about your normal pitiful pointless ignorant lives."



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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I get the feeling that these bonds are fakes.

All they would have to do is tell the sucker that they have a Bearer Bond that is worth 500 million but they work for a japanese bank and swiped it from a safe deposit box after the owner died and need someone to cash it for them because the bank they worked for would ask to many question if they tried to cash it. they would offer the sucker 5 million for cashing the bond.
They would then ask for front money like $10,000 to $50,000 to hold while the sucker cashed the bond.

As soon as the sucker gave them the front money and took the fake bond into a Swiss bank the japanese scammers would vanish with the front money before the sucker got arrested for trying to pass a fake bond.

Just look at how many people have fallen for the N!gerian 419 scams and These japanese likely would have found more then a few people/suckers.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED
I get the feeling that these bonds are fakes.

They could also be real, bonds that were already cashed in long ago when they matured, and were sitting in some Fed archive/record vault (you wouldn't want to destroy them once cashed in for a number of reasons), and some operatives from that secret shadow government that doesn't exist are using them to perpetrate some fraudulent act on behalf of our real government.

I just don't see how anyone could create something fake like this thinking they could get away with stiffing some chump sucker out there in the world, unless they were trying to sell them on eBay for a $100. If they were real and legitimate, you'd think they would be trying to cash them in HERE. Thus, if they are real, but thus not legitimate because they had already been cashed in and were stolen, who could have pulled something like that off?

Well, it's interesting to speculate (that's what a good mystery is all about), I just don't know if we'll ever hear the truth on this. Yeah, we might hear some story released about it later, but that doesn't mean it's true. Who among us doesn't think our own government could be involved in this? You would need somebody here in our government involved in this if those things were destined to be sold .. what buyer would NOT want to verify their validity? And, since they were already matured, wouldn't a buyer be suspicious of why someone would be trying to sell them instead of cashing them in .. unless someone was trying to avoid income tax .. but then the new owner would have the same issue to avoid too unless they were paying pennies on the dollar for them .. but again, wouldn't YOU want to verify if these things were real before completing their purchase through some shady smugglers?

The thing that's really suspicious though is how this, which should be a big news story regardless if these are fake or real, is not mentioned in the MSM (which the PTB likely control). My guess is either we'll hear a cover-up story that attempts to dismiss this, or it will just die (after the spooks silence those involved).



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by djvexd
This story has Yakuza written all over it.


I disagree.

My gut feeling - based on quite a few years here in Japan - is that this is connected to NK.

The basis for my suspicion:

- there are a significant number (into the hundreds of thousands) of North Koreans living in Japan. Chongryon is the largest organization of NKoreans, and they have substantial business, social and political contacts with North Korea.

- one of the chief soft exports from Japan to NK has been remittances - funds sent from Chongryon back to NK. This might not sound like much, until you consider that the Pachinko trade is overwhelmingly Korean operated. It has also operated at a bit of an arms length over the years - the Japanese government has been reluctant to crack down on the limits of cash that can be sent. In some cases, I'm not sure they've even been able to track it (ie. transfers from NK banks in Japan to NK).

That's the base for my hunch. A group with (a) a degree of political, social and economic motivation and (b) a history of being a major financial link. Some more than others.

** note: I'm an expat here, and I know that a bit of this sounds like fifth-column accusations. I'm not trying to paint every Zainichi as a potential spy, rather that some North Koreans here have stronger ties than others. Those people, if arrested in a foreign country, would more than likely be ID'ed as Japanese Nationals. **

On to (C)

UNSC resolution 1874 was rumored to include not only severe limits on low level remittances, but also on any kind of international banking. This incident occurred while the drafts were being drawn up.

Moving the bonds to Switzerland: besides the obvious banking connections, Switzerland is one of the only places outside of East Asia that North Korea conducts official business in.

www.korea-dpr.com...

So that's (c) - a motive for moving the bills - real or forged - at this time, and (d) a place or places to move them to: NK government offices.

Does that make any sense to anyone else, or have I been (e) hitting the sake too hard or (f) not hitting the sake hard enough?



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