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2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

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posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 08:42 PM
reply to post by jefwane

Thanks for the info. Do we know if these were bearer bonds or treasury bonds? I thought they were treasury bonds. Confused now.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 08:45 PM
Just to give ya an idea of how much money this is, only 5 nations on Earth are holding more in our bonds than what these guys were caught with!

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 08:47 PM
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

It's my understanding that they are US issued Bearer Bonds. The source article states that one type has US federal Reserve on them and the other is something the article is calling a Kennedy Bond. The US doesn't issue bearer bonds anymore due to them being used for a multitude of illicit activity in the past, but there are still some of these bonds in circulation. I'm speculating that the ones that are sourced in the original as having Federal Reserve on them are simply US Bearer bonds, I'm pretty sure Kennedy bonds are still US T's but I'm still trying to find out why they are called that.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 08:54 PM
reply to post by SLAYER69

The only country right now that has that much money on hand in bonds is Chinese, once we sell them bonds we don't know what they do with it, but it wouldn't surprise me that they would try to take it to Switzerland and prop up a bank account with it so they can do backdoor transaction. When a country is issued bonds they are for a set amount of years and it makes it hard when a country is tanking financially for anyone to loan against it, however if its in a bank and the value is declared at a certain amount then they have the luxury of the other participant in the transaction not knowing its US Bonds, so they have a stronger financial leg to stand on. Plus China can make purchases that cant be tracked, I would almost bet the our government does the same thing with black ops accounts. It belongs to the Chinese and they will get it back, you watch and see. There is no big conspiracy here just the Chinese trying to make a couple extra dollars but trying to get out of disclosure.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by alienj]

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 09:07 PM
some good info so far

this is a very interesting story

but i plead to all ats members

with as big of a breaking story as this is. and the severe potential of the situation that we face

lets try not to turn this into a 40 page speculation fest until we gain some info, or some of the great members on here really do some great investigative work and find some answers

maybe at least in the beginning keep replies to a minimal to make it easier to find answers in this thread, Once there are answers.

im not saying dont make any replies

but often times on ats, I've seen a great thread start to develop then quickly grows out of control with a very large number of pages making it hard to digest

the involvement of the vatican is very interesting to me

if these are real, other then the chinese or russians the vatican would be the only other group that could make sense to me, but maybe its neither and someones really pulled the wool over our eyes

another great thread from ats on something huge the msm isnt picking up on

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 09:15 PM
I hope this is not related.

Yosano Says Japan’s Trust in Treasuries ‘Unshakable’

Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano said his government is confident about the outlook for U.S. Treasuries, signaling the second-biggest foreign holder of the securities will keep buying them amid record sales.

From Bloomberg 6-11-09 9:29 EST

What would a government just caught trying to slyly unload a butt load of Treasuries have to say publicly after being caught doing it.

I'm not saying I believe that this was a Japanese operation, but the timing of this statement does seem a little bit odd, but it's most likely coincidence.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 09:48 PM
Not trying to be an annoying newbie but these are fakes from a scam that has been tried before (last time they had printed up over 1 trillion in fictitious notes/bonds). I placed in link in my previous email but I guess no one took a look.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:01 PM
A few reliable sources have carried this story...

Two Japanese citizens carrying $134 billion worth of U.S. bonds were detained last week by Italy's financial police at Chiasso (40km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland, an Italian daily said Wednesday.

According to the report, they include 249 U.S. Treasury bonds each worth $500 million, plus 10 Kennedy bonds and other U.S. government securities worth a billion dollar each.

The two unidentified Japanese citizen were searched on June 3 when they were in Chiasso. They were detained on suspicion of attempting to take a large amount of securities out of Italy without declaring it.
The bonds were found hidden in the bottom of the suitcase, in a closed section separated from the part of the bag containing personal items.
Apart from the securities the Japanese men were carrying a considerable sum of original bank documents.

Investigations are underway to establish the identity and the origin of both the bonds and the bank documents that have also been impounded.
In order to stop money laundering Italian law sets a ceiling of €10,000 per person for importing or exporting money without declaring it. The penalty for violating the law is 40 per cent of the money seized.

If the certificates were real, the fine alone would amount to US$ 38 billion, five times the estimated cost of rebuilding quake-devastated Abruzzi region. It would help Italy’s eliminate its public deficit.
If the certificates are fakes the two Japanese nationals could get a very lengthy jail sentence for fraud.

The US Embassy in Rome was informed.

Also many others now...
Google Search Page

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:11 PM
Well if they were trying to pull a fast one and avoid paying taxes etc. They just shot themselves in the foot. What did it say again the % would be going to Italy?

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:13 PM
It's still not surfacing on CNN, Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS... none of the major U.S. news networks seem to care. At all. Either that, or they just don't want people to know.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Trunkeight

Excuse me, I already posted this precise information @ 2:28pm.

Why have you reposted this as your own??

Interesting set of ethics here...

You are mistaken...

your post different thread...2.28p.m.......

This thread...This story was posted first on this thread at 2.46 A.M.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:20 PM
reply to post by Counttrarian

I hope your right, and it's just a conspiracy of criminal non-state actors. Despite my mention of the Japanese in a couple of other posts on this thread. I still lean towards the most likely explanations being a criminal counterfeiting operation that was swinging for the moon and North Korean antics. Given recent NK actions i'm leaning more toward that.

As disturbing as the NK potential is until there is confirmation that the bonds are indeed fake, we must at least look at what governments could conceivably have that much in treasuries for real. China and Japan are really the only two I can think of.

I hope it's just some really talented criminals with some sophisticated printing machines and software. That, while still a serious crime is less dangerous than all other outcomes.

Despite all the sabre rattling going on by an against North Korea, them being the culprits is still less bad than if it is an attempt by China or less likely Japan to discreetly get out of a good chunk of their dollars.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:29 PM

Originally posted by warrenb

from your post link

But folks: This is $134.5 billion dollars worth.

If they're real, what government (the only entity that would have such a cache) is trying to unload them?

If they're fake, this is arguably the biggest counterfeiting operation ever, by a factor of many times. I've seen news about various counterfeiting operations over the years that have made me chuckle, but this one, if that's what it is, is absolutely jaw-dropping.

The cute part of this is that if the certificates are real Italy just got a hell of a bonanza - their money laundering laws provide for a statutory 40% penalty for failure to declare instruments and cash in excess of $10,000 Euros, which means they'd garner a close-to-$40 billion dollar windfall.

That ought to help their budget problems!

Notice, by the way, that the US Media has totally ignored this story - even though the securities in question are allegedly US instruments.

Gee, I wonder why? Might the authorities know they're real and be just a wee bit nervous that disclosure of a sovereign attempting to covertly dump nearly $140 billion in debt could cause a wee bit of panic, given that we're running nearly $200 billion a month in deficits?

Inquiring minds want to know what's really going on here.

Yeah thats right...we want to know and sure it could cause panic...that is why the MSM is not covering it here in the U.S!

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:31 PM
reply to post by burntheships

I think I may have a handle on this whole thing!

I remember something coming out of the G-8 then G-20 or maybe DAVOS earlier this year about closing these "Tax Loop holes" in the financial market. Somebody could be trying to move these around and having older ones would be best. That way they "Whomever" could claim that they were always there. I think those that are in place would be "Grandfathered" in so if this is the case there should be a large amount of this type of things going on and that would explain all the money shuffling going on.

Davos: the tide is turning against tax havens

What the 2009 World Economic Forum meeting in Davos lacked in consensus it certainly made up for in doom-mongering. One clear message came through from world leaders: the need for greater regulation and transparency in the new financial system. Although offshore centers are a thorn in the side of the newly corporative vision, they still have an important role to play in the global financial world.

Speaking at the World Economic Forum held in Davos, Switzerland, Stephen Green, CEO of HSBC, called for "global co-operation", "economic balance" and "transparency and simplicity" as the central tenets of a new financial world. Despite the knee-jerk protectionism that is currently being demonstrated, many commentators have stated that the global economy will struggle to recover without this sort of co-operation.

I also found this.

Obama Seeks To Close Overseas Tax Loophole

President Obama vowed Monday to "detect and pursue" American tax evaders and go after their offshore tax shelters.

In announcing a series of steps aimed at overhauling the U.S. tax code, Obama complained that existing law makes it possible to "pay lower taxes if you create a job in Bangalore, India, than if you create one in Buffalo, N.Y."

The president said he wants to prevent U.S. companies from deferring tax payments by keeping profits in foreign countries rather than recording them at home, and called for more transparency in bank accounts that Americans hold in notorious tax havens like the Cayman Islands.

"If financial institutions won't cooperate with us, we will assume that they are sheltering money in tax havens and act accordingly," Obama said.

The president, who hammered on this issue during his long campaign for the White House, said at a White House event that his plan would generate $210 billion in new taxes over 10 years and "make it easier" for companies to create jobs at home. Over a decade, $210 billion would make a modest dent in a federal deficit expected to swell to $1.2 trillion in 2010.

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:38 PM
reply to post by SLAYER69

You know that's good reasoning Slayer, but what kind of private or corporate individual has $140 Billion to hide from the taxman? Unless it was some type of organized conglomeration of several individuals or corporations can you name any individual or institution that would have that kind of wad they wanted to hide from the taxman? The only entities I can think of with $140 Billion are the types that levy taxes not hide from them.

EDIT to add:According the the Tres link someone provided earlier the only group I see other than Japan and China, with that kind of wad are Russia, Oil exporters, and Carribean banking centers. So I could see where this could conceivably be money coming out of Caribbean tax havens, but would be something like 65% of the total treasuries held there according to the fed.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by jefwane]

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:44 PM
reply to post by jefwane

Kennedy bonds are silver certificates that were backed by... silver (novel concept huh?). The name derived from JFK who instituted them in an attempt to strip the Federal Reserve of the power to print money and then loan it to the government at interest. Personally, I believe, this was the reason he was assassinated, why no other president has attempted to do this, and why Reagan was warned with an attempt on his life. But I digress.

Executive Order 11110

Silver certificates were printed without interest. The Order was for the Treasury to issue silver certificates against all silver held by the government which did not already have certificates against it. The Order was needed due to the passage of Public Law 88-36 which repealed the Silver Purchase Act and other related monetary measures. One result was that after the repeals, only the President could issue new silver certificates.[citation needed]

The Federal Reserve System could replace the certificates, but only in larger denominations. The thrust of the Order returned the authority to issue new silver certificates (and specify denominations) back to the U.S. Treasury.

This executive order allowed for the Federal Reserve System to distribute and exchange currency at lower denominations that met the growing economic need. The authoritative basis for the Order was substantially nullified in 1982 with the passage of Public Law 97-258.

The Order was never directly reversed. However, Section 1(j) of Executive Order 10289

Last sentence rewritten: The Order was never directly reversed. However, no one has attempted it since because they all wanted to live. (Sorry couldn't resist).

[edit on 11/6/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by SLAYER69

You may be onto something aspect of this story that interested me was the fact that these men were attempting to enter Switzerland...caught going in

I have done a fair amount of investigation into the Swiss tax haven issue ...

Bank Secrecy Faces Coordinated Global Assualt

Swiss Talk Tough Over Blacklist Threat

Perhaps the bonds were on their way to a tax haven...

That makes a lot of sense...they were obviously couriers...IMO
But for whom?

[edit on 11-6-2009 by burntheships]

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 10:59 PM

Originally posted by jefwane
reply to post by SLAYER69

You know that's good reasoning Slayer, but what kind of private or corporate individual has $140 Billion to hide from the taxman? Unless it was some type of organized conglomeration of several individuals or corporations can you name any individual or institution that would have that kind of wad they wanted to hide from the taxman? The only entities I can think of with $140 Billion are the types that levy taxes not hide from them.

Well Walmart for one. Multiply those earnings over the past 10 years?

Wal-Mart completed its 2008 fiscal year on Jan. 31, 2008, marking an 8.6-percent increase in net sales over 2007, to $375 billion. “We added about $30 billion in sales, which is equal to adding the annual sales of a Fortune 75 business,” Scott wrote. “Even more impressive, Wal-Mart exceeded $100 billion in sales during the fourth quarter – a first for any global retailer. And, we accomplished this during a quarter when most of retail was going in the other direction.”

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 11:01 PM
reply to post by burntheships

I think the train was traveling to Switzerland not from, though I'm not sure if that was made clear in the source. I think the Swiss would hold up better to international pressure than other tax havens, due to their historical traditions and the fact that aside from chocolate and watches that's what the Swiss are known for. Still, who aside from states would have $140 Billion that they wanted to do something with discreetly?

[edit on 11-6-2009 by jefwane]

posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by jefwane

Yes that is the real mystery here...who they belonged to. That should be easily traced...I am sure someone already knows by now...and no one is telling.

Certainly these had owners...and that is recorded upon purchase.
The numbers and the owners indentifiers are registered with the issuer and most likely also by the broker also...I am positive there is a complete MSM blackout on this...and for sure in the U.S. as these are U.S. issued instruments.

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