Killing-field babies 'smashed against trees'

reply to post by KRISKALI777

Just to clarify an earlier post of mine... When I typed 'insert fictional deity here', I wasn't necessarily referring to Pol Pot's tribe and the OP.

I was answering Ashley D's question, generally. Some past genocidal persecutions have been accomplished through religious ideals. If it's a tool that works, then leaders will exploit it.

Unintelligent, fundamental tribes are sometimes indistinguishable from barbaric savages in the way that they treat others.

There was no intent from me to concentrate on religion in this thread. There's plenty of other threads where I can bash religion to my heart's content.

I have also been to Cambodia its a fantastic place with lovely people.

Terrible what happened back then. They also played loud music at the killing fields so workers would not hear the death screams.

There was a hut that contained chemicals. When the bodies were thrown into the pits the chemicals were thrown on them to control bad smells and to kill off those that were still alive.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Believe it or not; Pol Pots' communist dictatorship had nothing to do with Christianity! Anyone who can draw some kind of correlation between the 2 is very far from the mark.
Pol Pot was a revolutionary. When things stray from the ideal (we are unpredictably human), they tend to get out of hand. The fact is that some individuals get out of hand when they get a little taste of power; look at the Capos in the WWII death camps!
Noone in their right mind would condone this kind of treatment towards anyone, let alone babys'. There is also documented evidence, of some Khmer soldiers throwing babys' into the air and shooting them, for amusement.
In times of revolution, peoples are routinely dumbed down, hypnotised with political/ media alliteration, and pumped full of the 'big-brother' mentality. Those that were promised absolution within the 'organization' were ultimately murdered also.

Pol Pot was not a communist and he was not a revolutionary. He was a brigand.

Where there are ideas or ideals, there is no intelligence. Ideas are programs, protocols, and people who blindly follow ideas or ideals are not intelligent people. And that's why they can do all those crimes believing they are justified. That justification is not a result of intelligent comprehension, on the contrary, they are consisted within the self-justifying nature of an idea.

I understand how convenient it is for the creators of the monster Pol Pot to insist that he was a communist, but that just doesn't hold water.

reply to post by tezzajw


Thats cool Tez, and a relief! I cant stand when some people can rationalize a fly climbing the wall into Christianity; seems to happen a lot right across the board.
Sorry if it sounded like I was goading you, it wasn't my intention; I was refering to the comments by the individual that posted before your last reply

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Sorry if it sounded like I was goading you, it wasn't my intention; I was refering to the comments by the individual that posted before your last reply

Not at all, mate. No worries.

I just wanted it to be clear that I was not trying to associate Pol Pot's actions with religion. Some people might have thought that's what I meant with my 'fundamentalism' tag and with my line about a deity in response to AshleyD.

At least there's a few of us, in this thread, who agree that they were very unintelligent people doing very wrong things to others.

I can barely think of any reason to justify murdering an otherwise healthy baby, by slamming it into a tree. After reading similar horror stories on ATS over the past couple of years, there's not as much shock value anymore. There never seems to be a lower limit to the depths of human stupidity and disregard for others.

Originally posted by DangerDeathPol Pot was not a communist and he was not a revolutionary. He was a brigand.

Where there are ideas or ideals, there is no intelligence. Ideas are programs, protocols, and people who blindly follow ideas or ideals are not intelligent people. And that's why they can do all those crimes believing they are justified. That justification is not a result of intelligent comprehension, on the contrary, they are consisted within the self-justifying nature of an idea.

I understand how convenient it is for the creators of the monster Pol Pot to insist that he was a communist, but that just doesn't hold water.

rubbish- he was communist, there is no such thing as "true communism"- that only exists in books and in the minds of deluded fools- communism in action depends on local cultures, individual personalities and nuaunces- Pol Pot's communism was communism, why you pretend otherwise is just pathetic

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
reply to post by tezzajw

 

Thats cool Tez, and a relief! I cant stand when some people can rationalize a fly climbing the wall into Christianity; seems to happen a lot right across the board.
Sorry if it sounded like I was goading you, it wasn't my intention; I was refering to the comments by the individual that posted before your last reply

Aaaahh was that me!!!!
I thought i was kinda saying the same as you!
lol


[edit on 8-6-2009 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by king9072



It has everything to do with COMMUNIST dictatorships, and none to do with religion. Communist dictators after they take most of the power they ban all religions, because the only religion in Communism is materialism. Even art is transformed from something which was beautiful into the incoherent paintings/scultures which are part of today's world of modern art.

This is just another example, and the truth of what Communism has brought to this world.


[edit on 8-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by blueorder
rubbish- he was communist, there is no such thing as "true communism"- that only exists in books and in the minds of deluded fools- communism in action depends on local cultures, individual personalities and nuaunces- Pol Pot's communism was communism, why you pretend otherwise is just pathetic

Because Communists try once again to subjugate the rest of the world in their barbaric, and inhumane dictatorial system, hence Communists, or their sympathizers have to lie and claim "Communism never existed", so they can make more excuses for their dictatorial form of government/economic system to take more lives.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverseBecause Communists try once again to subjugate the rest of the world in their barbaric, and inhumane dictatorial system, hence Communists, or their sympathizers have to lie and claim "Communism never existed", so they can make more excuses for their dictatorial form of government/economic system to take more lives.

you are, of course, bang on the money- apparently the tens of millions killed in Ethiopia, Soviet Union, China, Cambodia etc etc are not enough for them to self reflect on their nasty little ideology, they always revert to type

"THAT IS NOT TRUE COMMUNISM"

"WE HAVE NEVER HAD TRUE COMMUNISM"


like religious fundamentalists and their declaration of "Purity"

Pathetic

[edit on 8-6-2009 by blueorder]

I saw a documentary on this ages ago. It said the reason they were "smashing the skulls" dissidents and other undesirables was because they took a passage out of one of the communist manifestos literally.

Memory fails but basically a famous Russian Communist (possibly Stalin) said if there is an uprising, if there are dissidents "smash them" or something of that nature, obviously meant metaphorically but they took it literally and made it a point to BASH the skulls in of both adults and children.

That is why they were smashing babies against trees, to bash their skulls just like the other 2 million bashed skulls in the killing fields.

Taliban, who do the same as Pol Pot "communists" are also communists?
Carpet bombing in Vietnam and whatever occurred there, like Mi Lai massacre, also done by communists?
Torturing in Abu Graib, and mass murder of Iraquis by suicide bombers, also have the seal of communism?
Throwing people from helicopters in Algeria, makes De Gaule a communist?
And the silenced massacre of people in Madagascar also by the French?
Massacre of the Irish at the beginning of 20th century was done by British communist mercenaries?
Massacre of millions in India by induced starvation, by the British, also has communist agenda?
Turkish massacre over Armenians and Greeks also done by communists?
"Christians" burned witches and educated people for centuries.
"Christians" like protestants and Catholics massacring each other by thousands, or millions, really Christians?
Massacre in the New World by the Spanish and English, when millions died, and selling them contagious blankets, also done by commies? Throwing them to dogs, also not Christian?
Destruction of all cultural heritage all over the world by Christians, not done by Christians?
Pol Pot has done the same and for the same purpose, exactly as he was allowed to do by people who are now crying "Communists"!
Sorry, but it's too transparent. Khmer Rouge have a very recognizable seal on their deeds.

I just cannot undertsand the mentality of my fellow race.
At times like this, this atheist sometimes wishes hell would exist just for these people.

I hope every bastards responsible never sleeps again, forever haunted by the screams and sounds of these murders.

reply to post by DangerDeath


First of all in case you didn't know most, if not all Islamic nations are ruled by a form of Socialism/Islam. They are Socialist, as an example The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, but at the same time very religious to the point of extremism.

Second of all i never claimed there have been no other atrocities committed by others under some other name.

Third of all under Communism alone have over 110 million people been murdered in the 20th century, and that's without counting the deaths of soldiers in battle, and the millions more imprisoned in Gulags and other prisons for being political dissidents or speaking against Communism.

More than 110 million murdered is more than all World Wars combined plus the deaths of every 20th century wars combined.

BTW in case you dind't know the government of Sudan called for two jihads, one in the 1980s against all Christians, and just in one country the Arab militias have murdered 2 million people including black Christians. The government of Sudan called for another jihad around 2003, and the Arab militias murdered over 500,000 - 600,000 black non-Arab people by the command of the Sudanese government from 2003 until almost the present. And this just in one country.

Under the Communism doctrine more people have been murdered by any other form of government, or even economic policy, and that's not counting the deaths by Socialist dictatorships which are not fully Communist.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Man, how low can yuo get? Tis made me sick, reading a hardline truth of life of this magnitude..killing babys? You know..how does one live ith themself after doing something like this? I mean really? even murderers, thieves and rapists wouldnt conjur something like this up... as i always say, no wonder alines wont land to announce thier presence...were onlu humans, acting in our true behavior. Thats not true for everyone, its just a mock i make of reality..that humans are barbaric sex animals. Storys like this confijrm that.
Dude will prob get some kinda empowerment or presidency nominee for sick stuff like this. Look at our goveernment and guantanomo bay, Condolezza rice saying, its not torture if the president says its ok,.... lok at what theyve become, untouchable unwise descision makers with bodyguards to shield them, as they make unpopular descisions of our everyday lives and fate...
Personally, ide like to see this guy put in solitary confienment for the rest of his natrual life, in an old run down water leaking cell,a nd fed nothing more than bread and groul...

I may be uneducated on this subject, but I feel I have a pretty good understanding. My best friend grew up in Armenia under the old USSR, and he moved to the US after the fall of USSR.

A couple of points:

1. Religion does not undermine communism in any way that any other "organization" doesn't. The problem the communist governments have is large, organized meetings of the populace. Armenia remained Christian without repercussions during the USSR reign.

2. Communism is not significantly different than Socialism, and neither of these push "materialism." That concept is from our Capitalist, Western, Consumer lifestyle. No one someone can make the case for materialism in any communist country?!?!

3. All the genocides and murders discussed were the result of dictators crushing resistance movements. Those dictators could have chosen any style of government, but communism lends itself to revolutionary principles rather easily, and therefore is a catalyst to spring a savvy dictator into power.

4. Idealists as mentioned earlier could be religious, political, racial, or otherwise. Although, killing in the name of some god does take the sting off until you come to your senses a little later. The same can be said for killing in the name of Patriotism, racial cleansing, etc., and they are all still idealists, so the poster was correct.

I remembered reading at some point that some cannabalistic tribes did not consider themselves cannibals. The other "humans" did not speak their language, and were therefore not "human" as they could not communicate. They were destroyed and eaten like any other animal that could not talk.



[edit on 8-6-2009 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Third of all under Communism alone have over 110 million people been murdered in the 20th century, and that's without counting the deaths of soldiers in battle, and the millions more imprisoned in Gulags and other prisons for being political dissidents or speaking against Communism.

OK, now please do the same kind of math and find out how many people were murdered in 20th century by those who were not calling themselves communists...

Nazis are outstanding, obviously, and also Japanese militarists...
And Italian fascists, who gassed Ethiopians....
But, let's try to find out the rest of the truth.

My point is, Pol Pot regime was supported by someone who wanted to show the world what communists can do. He was helped to do those criminal things by the very those who now point a finger on someone as a communist (meaning "criminal"). It is too transparent.

And it is very dangerous to do this, because then all you need to destroy someone is to label him in this manner. That is very, very dangerous, and might at one point in time happen to any of us. Just give it a thought.

You know, in America, as well as in Russia, and China, right now, there are Patriotic acts which denounce anyone who opposes government as being a "terrorist". Not far from imagination is that all kind of nasty things will be attached to those terrorists, if need be. There is nothing in their way to do just that, and people are prepared to accept and believe such agenda. There are centuries of practicing this kind of propaganda and people are well trained.

However, there are very recent examples that people killed toddlers in the very same fashion as they were killed in Kampuchea. Only this year, I remember I read some articles, a man threw a toddler out of a speeding car. Another man was hitting asphalt with toddler's head. One was stomping on a toddler, killing it. There are a few more examples of this. No one in his right mind would try to label these obviously pathological persons as communists or Christians, simply because what they did has nothing to do with those ideological systems.

reply to post by ziggy1706


I watched recently an interview with Charles Manson. That guy is so unintelligent, and yet he knows very well that it is "best" for him to hide behind some ideology, no matter how sick it is. Ideology justifies any crime. Political agenda is not different at all.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

1. Religion does not undermine communism in any way that any other "organization" doesn't. The problem the communist governments have is large, organized meetings of the populace. Armenia remained Christian without repercussions during the USSR reign.

Wrong religion is banned in Communism because anything that keeps people from becoming good Communists must go. I don't think your friend ever told you about religion, or maybe he told you that he had to go in hiding, as did I, because religion was banned. Although at first in Armenia the rule to ban religion was not set up, it eventually did, and most priests were murdered, or had to flee. Those who stayed had to do so in hiding.

Early in the 20th century, Armenians suffered at the hands of the Ottoman Turks, being forced to flee from their homes. 1.5 million died in the persecution, with most of the rest scattered around the world. What remained of Armenia outside Turkey came under the Soviet Union, when almost all Armenian Catholic clergy were killed. Since the collapse of the Communist regime, and the arrival of Armenian independence ten years ago, the Church has revived and the Catholic hierarchy was restored in 1992. A new seminary is planned to offset the shortage of priests. Catholics make up 4% of the people of Armenia.

www.ewtn.com...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
2. Communism is not significantly different than Socialism, and neither of these push "materialism." That concept is from our Capitalist, Western, Consumer lifestyle. No one someone can make the case for materialism in any communist country?!?!

According to Marx Socialism is the first step to turn a Capitalist country into a Communist nation, there are "some" differences between the two.

BTW, Communism pushes for Atheism, which is materialistic.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
3. All the genocides and murders discussed were the result of dictators crushing resistance movements. Those dictators could have chosen any style of government, but communism lends itself to revolutionary principles rather easily, and therefore is a catalyst to spring a savvy dictator into power.

As i said before many have killed in the name of many things but none other than under the Communist dictatorial systems, be lucky you have never experienced Communism, but you might if things continue the way they are going.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
4. Idealists as mentioned earlier could be religious, political, racial, or otherwise. Although, killing in the name of some god does take the sting off until you come to your senses a little later. The same can be said for killing in the name of Patriotism, racial cleansing, etc., and they are all still idealists, so the poster was correct.

I remembered reading at some point that some cannabalistic tribes did not consider themselves cannibals. The other "humans" did not speak their language, and were therefore not "human" as they could not communicate. They were destroyed and eaten like any other animal that could not talk.

I really have no idea what you have to imply by any of the above...

what does cannibalism ahve to do with Communism and the murders perpetrated by it's advocates?

[edit on 8-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by DangerDeath


In case you didn't know Nazis were Socialist, hence the name National Socialist Germany under Hitler's regime. Hitler himself made a sort of Communist manifesto, but in this case he stated they were all Socialists, which coincidentally is also how Communists call themselves. Hitler was religious as well as a madman, and he blamed the death of Christ on all Jewish people.

BTW as I said above the murders of Socialist dictatorships, which were not full Communist dictatorships, is not part of the well over 110 million murders caused by Communist regimes.

There has been no other political, economic or even religious doctrine which has murdered so many. Not even Christianity, not even Islam.



[edit on 8-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]