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Killing-field babies 'smashed against trees'

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posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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Killing-field babies 'smashed against trees'


www.news.com.au

THE former jail chief of the Khmer Rouge regime has told Cambodia's UN-backed war crimes trial that his staff had murdered babies by smashing them against trees at a "killing field".

Kaing Guek Eav, better known as "Duch", is on trial for overseeing the torture and extermination of 15,000 people who passed through the hardline communist movement's notorious Tuol Sleng prison.

"The horrendous images of those (babies) smashed against trees, yes, that was done my subordinates,'' Duch said.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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He's 66 years old and he's apologising for what he and his subordinates did.

How do you prosecute someone like him, when he admits what he's done? When crimes, so perverse, are admitted to, it makes any kind of punishment seem lame...

It's happened throughout all recorded history and I don't see why it will change in the future. As long as there's enough unintelligent, fundamentalists who need an enemy, we'll never escape from cave-dwelling bash-bash impulses.

www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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I actually know a survivor of the killing fields, she was a little girl at the time. The stories are horrific and smashing babies across trees was only one of the many things they did.

She watched most of her family die. The killing fields was what they refered to the rice fields as. An dictator (don't know the name) came in and forced everyone to work to death growing rice, then he decided he wasn't gonna pay or feed em. Needless to say tens of thousands died. Innocent women and children died just like dissenting males.

After listening to the numerous stories that were her childhood, I had but one question. "What was god doing that he was so damn busy he couldn't show up for some divine intervention" ... I honestly wouldn't blame him if he was watching American Idol or Survivor though.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


How sad.


I'm glad he is being brought to justice and I am glad he is taking responsibility for his actions. One thing from the article is curious, though.

On one hand he says this:


"The horrendous images of those (babies) smashed against trees, yes, that was done my subordinates,'' Duch said. "I myself do not blame my subordinates, because they worked under me,'' the 66-year-old added. "I am criminally responsible."


But then he is quoted as saying this:


But he has denied prosecutors' claims that he played a central role in the Khmer Rouge's iron-fisted rule, and maintains he only tortured two people himself and never personally executed anyone.


That's kind of what happens when you have other people do the dirty work for you.


But I do have a question for you, Tezzjaw. What do you mean by this:


As long as there's enough unintelligent, fundamentalists who need an enemy, we'll never escape from cave-dwelling bash-bash impulses.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
That's kind of what happens when you have other people do the dirty work for you.

Yeah, he must have been too preoccupied to swing the babies himself.


Originally posted by AshleyD
But I do have a question for you, Tezzjaw. What do you mean by this:

tezzajw
As long as there's enough unintelligent, fundamentalists who need an enemy, we'll never escape from cave-dwelling bash-bash impulses.

Unintelligent people follow leaders who give orders for them to kill thousands of innocent people.

Whether it be in History with Christian Crusades, or the Nazi era, or with Pol Pot's henchmen... it doesn't matter. They can't be intelligent. They're a mindless mob of cruel brutes. If they were intelligent, then they would realise that what they are doing is abhorrent to life itself.

Throw in a dash of good ol' fundamentalism and they're sure not to question their orders - thou shalt kill. They might even enjoy it, thinking that they'll be praised by _________



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


Sadly when you go to Cambodia, Pnom Phen particulary, they have created a tourism commerce from this Kmer Rouge era. The trip to the killing fields is something I actually wish i never did. Not even to honor those who died, its too hard, even the Buddist Temples there cant bring a sence of peace to the fields.
The crimes were beyond baby smashing in to trees, they used very violent forms of killing in the genocide such as axes, spades etc, all to save money on ammo


So do you punish someone for this? Yes. even though he may have self punished for all these years, how do we know that? What sense of compassion can you attain after such a sence of disconnection to be able to carry out the attrocity.

A punishment wont bring back those killed, but a true sence of guilt would require and accept punishment.

I lost direct family in the Balkans war. Additionally I had my first cousin in a prison camp for ethnic cleansing where she was repeatedly abudsed for 8 months by solders. My uncle has no legs.
The drive behind peoples actions is so unknown to us in the every day. However, I chose to not continue the cycle of hatred, and when given the choice to respond to my families injustice, my responce was to do al I could to petition for peace, and to support women and children on all sides of the conflict, I chose to not perpetuate the fear and hatred through continued fear and hatred.

So yes, there is always choice. He chose poorly.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


If you ever happen to go to Phnom Penh, there is a stark reminder there; 1) the Toul sleng genocide museum, and 2)one of the killing fields, which is a museum also (this lies on the outskirts of the city).
It is shocking, sobering and yet interesting.

And yes indeed, they did use a particular tree to kill children on; generally by grabing them by the legs and swinging them into the tree.
For adults, Palm Fronds, made a heavy club. Essentially victims were disposed of in a way as to not use ammunition. So they had there necks broken in this fashion, before being thrown into a ditch. Many people did not die immediately from their injuries, but regardless were left to suffer until deceased.
This was at just one of over 300 killing fields; as a testament to attrocities commited by Pol Pot, ther is a 7 story high class encased shrine, full of human skulls just through the main gate; a reminder of cambodias' traumatic past.
The 'killing tree' can be viewed, as many other relics left as reminders. Everywhere are pits of exhumed mass-graves; as well as human bones and endless bone fragments underfoot.











posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:23 AM
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Duch faces life in jail if convicted by the court, which does not have the power to impose the death penalty.


This is why I despise political correctness. The death penalty is becoming less popular because of it.

People like this murder hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, but we're just going to lie to ourselves and give ourselves a good ol' pat on the back for taking some imaginary moral high road by not forcing these people to suffer the same fate their victims did.

The death penalty was never meant to deter crime, so to use the fact that it hasn't deterred crime as a valid argument against it's use is nonsense. Obviously life in prison doesn't deter murderers either.

What the death penalty DOES do is deliver a form of justified punishment for committing a heinous and violent crime. This right here is a good example of that.

This guy and all of his subordinates need to be smacked upside a tree themselves. If they manage to survive, strap them to that same tree and cut it down. And don't even give them a proper burial. Leave the bastard there to rot.

This is the result of a passive society: too many people get away too easily with too much. If it's ever going to stop, people need to be made an example of.

[edit on 6/8/09 by NovusOrdoMundi]



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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Can we please prosecute those in the US administration during Nixon who led to that? Kissinger? But NOOOOOOO Obama is using him as diplomatic envoy... a war criminal representing the US...



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 02:58 AM
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This makes me sick. War is big money for a few people. Babies are nothing but garbage to them.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Duch faces life in jail if convicted by the court, which does not have the power to impose the death penalty.


This is why I despise political correctness. The death penalty is becoming less popular because of it.

People like this murder hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of people, but we're just going to lie to ourselves and give ourselves a good ol' pat on the back for taking some imaginary moral high road by not forcing these people to suffer the same fate their victims did.

The death penalty was never meant to deter crime, so to use the fact that it hasn't deterred crime as a valid argument against it's use is nonsense. Obviously life in prison doesn't deter murderers either.

What the death penalty DOES do is deliver a form of justified punishment for committing a heinous and violent crime. This right here is a good example of that.

This guy and all of his subordinates need to be smacked upside a tree themselves. If they manage to survive, strap them to that same tree and cut it down. And don't even give them a proper burial. Leave the bastard there to rot.

This is the result of a passive society: too many people get away too easily with too much. If it's ever going to stop, people need to be made an example of.

[edit on 6/8/09 by NovusOrdoMundi]


Great to see someone on hear ADVOCATING MURDER - it is truly a small mind which seeks to murder and kill to satisfy a bloolust for revenge, small indeed.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by king9072
I actually know a survivor of the killing fields, she was a little girl at the time. The stories are horrific and smashing babies across trees was only one of the many things they did.

She watched most of her family die. The killing fields was what they refered to the rice fields as. An dictator (don't know the name) came in and forced everyone to work to death growing rice, then he decided he wasn't gonna pay or feed em. Needless to say tens of thousands died. Innocent women and children died just like dissenting males.

After listening to the numerous stories that were her childhood, I had but one question. "What was god doing that he was so damn busy he couldn't show up for some divine intervention" ... I honestly wouldn't blame him if he was watching American Idol or Survivor though.


Pol Pot was his name - the movement was Khmer Rouge and your government was behind it, along with the massacres in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

The movement is typical of idealogically driven ones. Here the theme was to return to agrarian lifestyle, to free themselves from bourgoise lifestyles, to destroy the intelligencia and find freedom through returning to the land - much like your last thread about all the evils of the modern world - interesting how your thread and Pol Pots ideals are similar - ignorance always leads to the same conclusions. Presumption of intelligence is even worse.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


so where are the daily cries of `holocaust`

3 million were slaughtered - yet where is the influncial commitee`s , the daily reminders of this hoilocaust?


there isn`t one - the people of cambodia are looking to the future , leaving the past where it should be


another country should do the same , and grow to the future.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 04:18 AM
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Pol Pot’s regime was communist. To attempt to attach the ‘fundamentalist’ label to his atrocities is 180 degrees out of phase. How could the actions of a system that denies God’s existence be the fault of those that believe in God?

Oh that’s right, everything is religions fault no matter what. Actually, I guess communism is a religion, or at least a belief system. Ok then, communist fundamentalists are to blame.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by resistor
Pol Pot’s regime was communist. To attempt to attach the ‘fundamentalist’ label to his atrocities is 180 degrees out of phase. How could the actions of a system that denies God’s existence be the fault of those that believe in God?

Oh that’s right, everything is religions fault no matter what. Actually, I guess communism is a religion, or at least a belief system. Ok then, communist fundamentalists are to blame.


I know what you are getting at- the only way I can see anything "religious" about Pot and all the other communist hell holes is that they think they are creating utopia here on earth- what a frigged up utopia that is..........



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Pol Pot was not a communist and nothing he did was communist like.
He may have called himself a Jesus Christ bringing peace and justice to all.
Where in communism or Christianity you have killing babies as a method to accomplish some "ideals"? Nothing those Khmer Rouge did can be justified.

It is the result of lack of intelligence and the goal was to prevent any kind of intelligence to surface. So the unintelligent ones may "survive". It is clearly their way throughout all history.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by DangerDeath]



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 05:19 AM
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Religion and political ideologies such as communism are just badges worn by fearful individuals who want to exert control.

Power and belief it is yours to have, is the single reason behind any of these genocides.

Power struggles do strange thing to people. They just slap the badge on to back up their claim to power.

Are you the Peoples Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples Front?



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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Believe it or not; Pol Pots' communist dictatorship had nothing to do with Christianity! Anyone who can draw some kind of correlation between the 2 is very far from the mark.
Pol Pot was a revolutionary. When things stray from the ideal (we are unpredictably human), they tend to get out of hand. The fact is that some individuals get out of hand when they get a little taste of power; look at the Capos in the WWII death camps!
Noone in their right mind would condone this kind of treatment towards anyone, let alone babys'. There is also documented evidence, of some Khmer soldiers throwing babys' into the air and shooting them, for amusement.
In times of revolution, peoples are routinely dumbed down, hypnotised with political/ media alliteration, and pumped full of the 'big-brother' mentality. Those that were promised absolution within the 'organization' were ultimately murdered also.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by resistor
Pol Pot’s regime was communist. To attempt to attach the ‘fundamentalist’ label to his atrocities is 180 degrees out of phase. How could the actions of a system that denies God’s existence be the fault of those that believe in God?

Fundamentalism doesn't necessarily have to be religious. People can be fundamentally anti-religious and as extreme in their beliefs.

In this instance, yes, they were communist. Their fundamentalist communist ideals were part of their nature and mindset.

Something motivated them to genocide their 'enemy'. If it wasn't a screwed up, fundamental belief system, then what was it? Clearly, they are unwise and/or unintelligent people who enjoyed inflicting generational torture on others.

Whatever dogma they swallowed, it's not normal or welcome in a civillised age.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by tezzajw]



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


I agree
There is no place for religion in communism, I thought the poster you were replying to would have known that




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