unfortunately nothings free in this world. sounds logical though, help the most at risk people you can and show them there are people in this world who do care about their welfare. I suppose if anyone else gave a damn about these people they wouldn't need help in the first place right? I sure as hell don't see any atheist groups sending people into the Congo and to Darfur to help these human beings get the food, education, clothes, medications and the other minor luxuries people here in the U.S.A. take for granted everyday. If it wasn't for faith based charities a lot more people that you described would die every day. I'll star and flag because I do respect your opinion and I hate the money ministers just as much as anybody, but I find it hard to see your logic. I would rather see these charities or outreach programs benefit the people who need it. Anyone who spends even a few seconds of their life trying to help people in need gets my thumbs up. I know a Morman who went to Brazil on a mission and like you posted he went with his buddy or whatever and would talk to prostitutes and try to help them, why I asked him. Simply put he clearly told me that prostitutes usually have children and those are the ones we are trying to help. By trying to get the women to change their lifestyles they are trying to pave the way for a better life for the children. I may not agree with his beliefs but I respect him for all the people he has tried to make a difference for. I guess I just see this one as half full

Originally posted by Skyfloating
But does this have to involve a sales-pitch? Is it possible to help the suffering without trying to convert them at the same time?

No, it doesn't. This is evidenced by the many outreach programs run by various Christian organizations that don't evangelize simultaneous to offering assistance.

If any organizations labeled as 'Christian' refuse to offer assistance if the recipient is not interested in being proselytized to, their actions (or lack thereof) are despicable.

Eric



[edit on 3-6-2009 by EricD]

I don't know, but as a Christian myself, I'm not sure if that's right.

Jesus himself didn't actually talked about the gospel to every man and woman he healed. There's actually an instance he cured a blind man(or a can't walk, I can't remember clearly) but what I remember clearly, this man never saw Jesus come to heal him. Then Jesus quickly tried to blend in with the crowd after healing him so this man "never knew what healed him"!!

I think what Jesus maybe trying to demonstrate in that instance that words alone won't do the job, sometimes, simply helping people out works, even if you say nothing! I can't help but also say, sometimes even Atheist UN volunteer relief workers can bring people closer to God!! No offense to Atheists! And if you are actually a volunteer relief worker, you guys have the best job!!

[edit on 3-6-2009 by ahnggk]

I´m glad that even some Christians see this behavior as questionable.

I do like this one:

Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

_____________________________________

Another thing that is a bit odd is that these North Koreans, for example, just came out of many decades of brainwashing of their juche-ideology and are starting to orient themselves. It can take many months to shake off the ideology. I think its a bit too early to introduce this stuff to them.

Not only do they go after the poor and desperate in developing countries but also people who are weakened and desperate in developed countries. It's as if organized religion preys upon people who have been mentally downtrodden and take advantage of it in order to get more followers.

Take drug addicts and alcoholics for example. I hear stories all the time from people claiming to be former addicts but they were 'saved' because they turned to christ. Many of them in my experience flock to the big megachurches that have a lot of political influence. Also, poorer people flock to these places becuase I think that religion offers them some hope that they can't achieve from regular society. In reality, I don't think a god or christ did anything to help these people, they just helped themselves, kind of like the characters did on the Wizard of Oz. The wizard wasn't magical at all, the lion tin man the scarecrow and dorothy realized that what they wanted was what they already had inside of them.

To me it seems that from the outside, these people really think that they are helping to save people but for most of the time, it's all about the money.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by Dances With Angels]

Sky, you know, generally I agree with you. You also know that there is not anyone who has been any more critical of the organized Abrahamic religions than I. However, I have to dissent somewhat with you on this one.

Now, I tend to be against the whole proselytizing thing. On that, I agree with you. However, I have to applaud these Christians, if that is indeed what they are, for showing some humanity.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
However, I have to applaud these Christians, if that is indeed what they are, for showing some humanity.

I applaud the food, shelter and clothes they are providing. Great work. Its not that I have an issue with.

I was raised in one of those religions that knocks on your door Saturday morning.

The members who successfully brought in new members were given highest accolades, were the best members of the congregation. We were regularly told stories of people who we rescued from drug addiction, lives of crime, lives filled with all the particularly bad sins. (Of course, all the particularly bad sins have something to do with sex.) These stories were told to reinforce how much good our religion was doing, saving those from the horrors of God's wrath.

At some point, I started noticing that these were the only people that we were able to recruit to the religion. There was never an emotionally healthy person or regular Joe or anybody with any solid social or family structures behind them. It was only those that were at rock bottom that joined us.

As I began experiencing more of the 'real' world you are all familiar with, I began observing that our religion could really be considered a sales organization. We sold hope, community and eternity and the only people buying were those who had nothing.

This all sounds horrible and disgusting, but here comes the tricky part. I believe that everyone from the leadership of the organization to the disenfranchised believed that this was a good, positive thing. They weren't selling anything, they were saving lives, saving souls. And, you know, many of those new recruits did have better lives after converting.

So, I agree with the OP, selling your version of God is morally reprehensible, but, what of those few that benefit from it?

If they don't want to be a part of them, then what are they suppossed to do, force them to stay with them?






[edit on 6-6-2009 by Shawn B.]

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Shawn B.]

I found a few really interesting passages associated with the topic. Check this out.

Mark 9:38 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us; and we forbade him, because he followeth not us.

Here John is telling Jesus that someone was using the name of Jesus to cast out devils. They told this person to stop because he was not following their group of people.

Mark 9:39-41 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Here Jesus is saying to let him do what he is doing. If this guy is doing miracles in His name then this person knows the power that Jesus has and would not speak evil of Him.

He goes on to say that whoever gives you something in His name, because of the fact that this person believes you belong to Christ, would be rewarded anyway. Am I getting that right? Anyone?

There's nothing wrong with going to places where people suffer the most and helping them. For my taste, in that video, the guy who was handing out the new testament, could have waited a few weeks before doing that though. They just came freshly from years of brainwashing into their ideology. Give them some time to get to know the world before replacing it with another belief-system.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
They just came freshly from years of brainwashing into their ideology. Give them some time to get to know the world before replacing it with another belief-system.

Let's hope they drop a "belief-system" altogether and develop a real relationship with God. So that they are comforted and at peace with no strings attached.