Governor plans to completely eliminate welfare for families

reply to post by Tentickles


When the people demand a solution one will be offered: put the "poor" in work (death) camps for their food, shelter,medical, safety. It will be great for them. Maybe they'll get to wear the same clothes and start an orchestra that will be featured on news programs. Arnold showing the Nazi that he really is, again.

Originally posted by poet1b
I think in a society as wealthy as our own, people should be given a hand when down on their luck, but I don't think people should be allowed to live on welfare for more than six months. After a certain amount of time, instead of just providing money, people who can't hold a job should be required to move into a controlled environment, where they are required to do the basics in order to continue live where they live, like get up in the morning, clean their house, do chores for the community, attend classes, and all these sorts of things. Failure to comply would mean being put out.

Zieg Heil mein Fuhrer! A controlled environment like say.....I don't know.....a DEATH CAMP !!!!! People should have the freedom to be a slob, get up late (not everyone works in the day duh), and do no chores for the community (slave labor). Failure to comply would mean being eliminated ! In a society that is wealthy, help should be given to those in need without any recompense. The county is wealthy remember! They don't need it back with slave labor. That will hamstring the individuals from using their time, energy, and resources to improve their lives. And with the economy the way it is, what great jobs are most of these people going to get after only 6 months looking? So they should work cleaning up the roads and collecting trash for free? Try doing that in a city where those jobs are union jobs and pay really well. If we force people to do that work, then they should be paid accordingly, not just get there food stamps and a check that won't even cover the cheapest apertment rent. So let's see, if we paid them fairly like a private person with such jobs then what's it gonna cost? What if you had to pay that street cleaner 25 dollars an hour plus overtime for holidays and benefits and vacation? Live free or die!

reply to post by phair


Personal attacks aside, It is a better solution than the crime ridden cesspool of the ghetto that cradle to grave welfare has created, where kids are recruited to sell drugs for a living. Some people like the welfare ghetto system and all the crime it creates because it gives them an excuse to build a police state. Do you ever think about that?

I didn't say people who join such a program shouldn't be paid for their work, now did I? Financial reward would be an important part of such a program, along with an established, required, savings plan that allows them to accumulate some money to help them find get a place on their own once they have found a job.

Part of their work should also require that they maintain their living quarters to a certain standard, help clean the community where they live, and also attend classes so they can develop a skill to get them back on their feet. These tasks would help them to build self esteem, emotional strength to better enable them to get back on their feet, as well as providing a stable environment for the children. This is what we should aim for in any kind of welfare system.

By the way, men as well as women should be allowed to participate in such a program.

This type of solution certainly is less costly than the building of a police state, which not only costs us a great deal financially, but in loss of rights as well.

This post really worries me, being that I myself live In California and live In a city located In the bay area.

The outcome of this will not be pretty at all, crime Is already on the rise at It Is. Also the fact that It has become rediculously hard to even get a job now a days over here. I spoke with an HR from a local software company who had posted an ad on craigslist for an employment oppurtunity. She stated that It wasn't even worth It to post on CL anymore because as soon as she did her Inbox was flooded with applicants.

It's like you can't even get a job at Mc'Donalds or Wal Mart of all places over In California. I know first hand being that I had gotten laid off a few month's ago. It just baffles me that a Corporation like Wal Mart Is eager to hire people who cannot even speak english properly instead of someone with a degree or some sort's of education.

Please pray for us fellow ATS'ers...you thought the Rodney King riot's were bad? This will make them look like child's play...peace

Originally posted by UnderTheirRadar
The outcome of this will not be pretty at all, crime Is already on the rise at It Is.

It's like you can't even get a job at Mc'Donalds or Wal Mart of all places over In California. I know first hand being that I had gotten laid off a few month's ago. It just baffles me that a Corporation like Wal Mart Is eager to hire people who cannot even speak english properly instead of someone with a degree or some sort's of education.

You couldn't be more right! I live here in Michigan and many companies here who sub contract to the automakers are laying off and consolidating operations like crazy. My Son is a Senior Designer and designs many parts for the automakers and he's now a part time employee, he never knows how many days he's going to work when he goes in on Monday.

Crime is on the rise here as well, Banks are getting robbed more often, house breakins even in the daylight hours while people are at work, all you see in the newspaper are little blurbs on this to save the image of the area. Michigan can't be far from California because we have one of the top 5-6 largest State governments in the Country, welfare up the butt, people going off unemployment, sooner or later this lame Governor Granholm we have is going to be forced to drop welfare.

reply to post by UnderTheirRadar


More care and focus needs to be addressed with the education training system when it comes to the long term unemployed, as well as non english speaking migrants.

Originally posted by phair

When the people demand a solution one will be offered: put the "poor" in work (death) camps for their food, shelter,medical, safety. It will be great for them. Maybe they'll get to wear the same clothes and start an orchestra that will be featured on news programs. Arnold showing the Nazi that he really is, again.

you really don't understand the terms you are using- the Nazis were big into their welfare programs

Originally posted by blueorder

you really don't understand the terms you are using- the Nazis were big into their welfare programs

Hello there. What do you mean? The Nazis used welfare too? Or are you being sarcastic?

reply to post by catalyst2466


I got a solution to the non-English speaking immigrants, send them back home. I too live in Silicon Valley, ten to fifteen years ago we had a booming economy, and technology was growing by leaps and bounds. Then large numbers of software engineers were laid off and replaced by immigrants willing to work for a great deal less.

Those software engineers who were laid off were the people driving our technological advances, and the results of these software companies kicking the people who created the technology out the door has resulted in an end to technological advancement, and in my opinion, we are currently going backwards.

It wasn't just software engineers, all areas of the work force have seen replacement of the people making good money with immigrants willing to do anything to grab a piece of the American dream. I understand where they are coming from, but they have been used as pawns for the greedy power mongers that have destroyed our economy. Now most of them are stuck with huge mortgage payments that take everything they earn, in an upside down real estate market, that in my opinion will never recover because of population growth trends and birthrates over the last couple of decades.

Now we are supposed to salvage our future to bail the people out that destroyed out economy.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
Not hard to see why we are all in such bad shape. I see people suggesting they raise taxes.... WOW. that has never been a solution to anything!
The only answer is to spend less. and to never go back to spending more than 80% of net revenue of the previous year.

Hi sense,

In fact it seems that it IS hard to see why we are in this mess when some are still arguing that we should reduce taxes ( by spending less on what the people we taxed wants) without ever mentioning how or what we should spend the tax on. You could spend exactly your income each year ( no deficit) on the pentagon and still run into trouble fast....

The problem started when states began to anticipate their next years revenue. these estimates are never accurate and always inflated.

I would argue that the problem starts when you spend taxes on aircraft carriers, stealth bombers and other things that does absolutely nothing for your economy; well beside making a few contractors horrendously rich and creating a few high paying jobs. We can in fact estimate yearly revenue in advance and do it very accurately IF our book keepers ( Arthur Andersen anyone? ) isn't know to be cooking with the books which are then sent to ratings agencies who cheat based on profits that isn't there. The problems we are facing are not accidental or coicidenal as that sort of thing doesn't tend to consistently make the rich richer as they keep getting.

Especially harmful is the notion of raising the tax rate on the people who build the state. It has become fashionable to blame wealth for peoples problems when the opposite is true.

The people who build the state are the workers who get paid and who spend money on the very same goods the created while at work. We should always be hiking taxes on the very rich ( well we can be very creative as they can afford very creative lawyers and accountants as we keep discovering) as they are past masters at finding ways to both evade it and additional means by which to keep increasing their profits. Since those are all things they will keep doing it would be silly to make it any easier for them given how they will never be satisfied without exploiting either people or whatever system we might create to protect the 95% who isn't bent on world ( read town,city, country) domination.

I mean seriously how many people are employed by a company owned by middle class wage earners....0.

Well it's not zero but 5% ( as i remember 1-10 employees) isn't much and in my mind just proves that it's hard to be competitive without capitol and plenty of infrastructure.

If you tax the rich at 90 % they will simply shut down the buisnesses they currently run and move them to other states and or countries.

So don't let them leave? I mean if they wish to leave make sure to raise import taxes to ensure that any individuals that uses local labor&laws gets a massive advantage? How else are you going to create and protect consumers that is the basis of our economies? Concentration of wealth is the absolute anthesis of 'free markets' or freedom in general and taxing that group that wants to get richer and richer and a richer will just inspire them to work harder. Why can't we get to whip those who want more money than they could spend in dozens of lifetimes? Why should we trust them with such power over us if they can't be happy with ten or twenty million in the bank?

Spend less. only solution that will last.

And i would insist that spending less is what the IMF is forcing the third world to do with dire and logically destructive consequences. When there is not flow of money there is no consumer and without consumers there is no economy.

Obviously the status quo of rewarding people for doing nothing has failed.

People are not rewarded for doing 'nothing' ( unless you call raising children which is what most people on welfare have to do alone) as much as the government has decided to pay them to keep them from creating riots to demand jobs. Welfare and unemployment benefits is basically the corporate capitalist system admitting that it isn't anywhere near perfect and that it will bribe you to stay off it's back. If the system can not encourage job creation it must be changed or taxed( so the state can do it) until it does.

Every person on welfare will agree it is almost impossible to get off of it because the benifits of free health care, paid rent, paid utilities and of course day care would require a well above average pay job to replace.

You don't have free health care, paid rent or paid utilties or day care while on welfare or most other aid programs. Most welfare recipients have at least one full time or part time job and are trying to get full time or more hours. Since no one is hiring ( and really have not been for a decade or more) for serious jobs people are made ever more dependent on benefits which the state happily pays, it isn't their money after all, to protect it's corporate paymasters who are making quite the private profit off this enterprise.

And people who chose to not finish their High school education for what ever reason will be hard pressed to make decent wages.

That isn't the full story:

Employers are asking workers to absorb an ever-greater share of rising health care costs, cutting into employees' net income, the report found.

"Workers don't have as much bargaining power as they once did," said Sylvia Allegretto, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute, a nonpartisan group in Washington, D.C. "And we've had this ever-increasing inflation that was eating up those wage gains."

Partly because of high health care costs, real earnings - or wages adjusted for inflation - declined slightly nationwide over the past six years to a median of $27,299, according to Monday's Families USA study, which used data from the U.S. Census Bureau.

That downward trend mirrors the findings of the 2006 Economic Report of the President.

The annual report showed that the average real wage for workers with a bachelor's degree declined 5.2 percent, from $54,396 to $51,568, from 2000 to 2004.

www.denverpost.com...

Having a education just means that you are more likely to get a higher income but certainly not that it isn't also declining in purchasing power.

It will be unpopular but the only solution is to lower the beniftis that the people receive to the point where working becomes a better alternative. It is called tough love for a reason.

Unless there are no jobs and few chances to start a business without being slowly or promptly crushed by your far larger corporate/franchise rivals. It would make sense to get as many as possible off state or federal grant/welfare programs but clearly that isn't and wont be done in the American corporate capitalist system. Blaming the workers who were schooled only well enough to work for someone else isn't going to make you feel better or solve the problem so you should probably let the resentment/anger go....

It is tough, and there will be people who unfairly fall throiugh the cracks but that is not the fault of the masses who were led down this path by trying to provide a better world for it's inhabitants.

Um? WE , the workers of the world, are the one's who fought for these programs as a stop gap measure to ensure that the corporations that we could not defeat would not have total control over our lives and economic futures. We wanted to change the system for good but we failed so here we are on benefits and grants resenting each other and ourselves for not having jobs. Why can't we rather address the root causes of the problem which isn't laziness, irreponsibility or even a lack of education but in most cases just the logic outcome of our capitalist system that is after all having these effects ALL over the world? Why is most of the world far more capitalist than the US and most of it poorer as well? Isn't it obvious that grants and benefits is what stands between either starvation or riots and street fighting the likes of which has not been seen in the US for a long time?

The problem is the people who treat the assistance programs as a way of life. They are the ones to blame and we should not subsidise their lifestyle.

So what should they do given their desperate lack of options? Just starve so you can keep on believing that the 'system' works well? Why can't we pay them their meager 500 or 800 dollars a month which does not amount to even 1% of the federal budget? Hell the Pentagon, veterans affairs and war budget gets like 35-40% of it so why can't they build a few less bombers and pay the benefits of a few million people?

BTW: just to be clear, I am only reffering to able bodied persons. Anyone who is mentally or physically disabled or likewise have a qualifying ailment are not the problem.

Well they ARE a problem ( presuming their injuries or disabilities were not as result of profit taking leading to unsafe work conditions) in that their communities and family should be taking care of them. The fact that the communities are so strained and impoverished by a economic system that does not create decent paying jobs results in our government having to take over roles we used to be able to fill ourselves. As you should lets deal with creation the conditions under which able bodied people can all be decently employed.

Continued

In fact I feel these people are the victims as much as the taxpayers. By being lumped in with the others they have been discriminated against already have been forced to take an ever smaller share of the total amount of assistance which was created to assist them in the first place.

Well the poorest and physically and mentally disabled have almost always drawn the shortest straw and given how the current system makes all the straws significantly shorter ( when it doesn't just reduce the number of straws) it's no surprise that those segments of the population are even more exposed than before.

In conclusion the multinational corporations that seems to have so much influence in washington are past masters at dividing us into groups and then playing us off against each other.

I particularly like this little 'note':

A note of appreciation from the rich

Naturally, we try to play you off against each other whenever it suits our purposes: high-waged workers against low-waged, unionized against non-unionized, Black against White, male against female, American workers against Japanese against Mexican against.... We continually push your wages down by invoking "foreign competition," "the law of supply and demand," "national security," or "the bloated federal deficit." We throw you on the unemployed scrap heap if you step out of line or jeopardize our profits. And to give you an occasional break from the monotony of our daily economic blackmail, we allow you to participate in our stage-managed electoral shell games, better known to you ordinary folks as "elections." Happily, you haven't a clue as to what's really happening -- instead, you blame "Aliens," "Tree-hugging Environmentalists," "Niggers," "Jews," Welfare Queens," and countless others for your troubled situation.

We're also very pleased that many of you still embrace the "work ethic," even though most jobs in our economy degrade the environment, undermine your physical and emotional health, and basically suck your one and only life right out of you. We obviously don't know much about work, but we're sure glad you do!

www.namebase.org...

You can read the entire thing and it sums up our current predicament far better than i have so far. So in closing ( and i mean it this time) you can keep shifting blame from those slightly more or less marginalized than yourself but that wont do much other than make you angry at the very people we should be working with to create a better system.

Stellar

I believe this is insane to strip people of their way of survival is wrong, and Arnold the nazi that he is is an idiot this will naturally incite riots and push more govt control and this will more likely increase the amount of violence and drug dealing in that area

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
This is awful, especially with all the tent cities and homelessness already going on in California. I would think they would be trying to do more to help these people, not taking away their assistance.

Arnold's not been doing a very good job, has he?

Who do you think should pay for all these benefits, and this help for the homeless. There is a limit to the publics responsibility to these people. I think the state has done all they are able too. There isn't any more money people. Do you want police protection, and fire service, or would you rather adopt a hobo, and have him live in your back yard.
the state's entitlement program has spent them into bankruptcy. I feel sorry for the people, thru no fault of their own , are homeless, but that still doesn't change the fact--California is broke. Again , who should pay for these people?? It just shows you, unless you run the FED, there's no free lunch.

reply to post by Slazer


My mom worked for Chrysler and had to get on welfare after her unemployment ran out back in the 80's. My dad couldn't find work either, but he did attend college at that time. I was little at the time but I think we were on welfare for a year and Chrysler called my mom back to work and she canceled welfare and things went back to normal. Now she's retired. I say all that to say that sometimes good hard working people need help and to assume that everyone on welfare is lazy is wrong.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
Hello there. What do you mean? The Nazis used welfare too? Or are you being sarcastic?

Hi

No, really was not being sarcastic- the Nazis were big into their social welfare programs, catering for the poor, ensuring pensions were adequate etc.

Now obviously this was for the "folk" deemed worthy, ie Germans only, but in principle they were big on that side of things, hence the socialist in their name

reply to post by blueorder


And your links to back up this claim? People often makes claims like this, but when you look into the details, it becomes clear that what is claimed, and what actually occurred are very different things.

reply to post by mrpotatohead

the state's entitlement program has spent them into bankruptcy.

Did you even bother to look at the budget? It is not welfare that is bankrupting the state, it is the bloated bureaucracy of the police state determined to tell everyone how to live their lives that is bankrupting the state.

Do you want police protection, and fire service, or would you rather adopt a hobo, and have him live in your back yard.

I want the state and the police to get off my back, and stop trying to tell me how to live my life. As long as I am not doing any harm to others, they should leave me alone, but that isn't the way it works.

It is funny how the same people who are so opposed to government regulating business are all too willing to support government regulating personal behavior.

By the way, hobos don't collect welfare.

Originally posted by poet1b
And your links to back up this claim? People often makes claims like this, but when you look into the details, it becomes clear that what is claimed, and what actually occurred are very different things.

are you for real, jeez, it is not exactly secret material, as much as some socialists and "progressives" may wish it to be


How about we start with the 25 point Program of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)- this was proclaimed by Adolf Hitler at a large public gathering in Munich on February 24, 1920.
Let us see what we can see

POINT 7- We think that the government's first job is to make sure every citizen has a job and enough to eat. If the government cannot do this, people who are not citizens should be made to leave Germany.

not very laissez faire (IE WHAT RIGHT WING ACTUALLY MEANS!), this is the state taking ownership of job creation

POINT 9- All citizens shall have equal rights and duties

There we have the equality buzz so beloved of socialists, progressives and "liberals"

POINTS 10 & 11 GROUPED TOGETHER
Every citizen should have a job. Their work should not be selfish, but help everyone. Therefore we say
No one should live off money from rents or other income unless they have worked for that money

The state makes it as a demand every citizen should have a job- they do not want anyone to be "selfish" in their work (socialist) and landlord profiteering should be closely monitored (socialist)

POINT 12- So many people die or loose their property in a war, it is wrong for other people to make money from the war. Anyone who made money from the war should have all that money taken away.

Really hitting the money shots there on socialist and progressive fronts- down with war profiteers!

POINT 13- We want all very big corporations to be owned by the government.


Again, hardly right wing laissez faire politics there eh

POINT 14- Big industrial companies should share their profits with the workers.

Enough said

this goes on an on, with many of the next points covering pensions and benefits.

I want to know why people pretend the NAZIS were not socialist (as well as being incredibly racialist)- what is the agenda behind such pretence (if it is deliberate hiding of the facts)

Right wing/laissez faire means minimal state involvement- this is now what the Nazis offered, they have more in common with the "liberals" and progressives- time for a rethink there eh

Pray tell, why do you keep voting these idiots in? You have good a good chance now Mr Obama is President. Go to him, tell him you need help.
Don't let smallknackers bully you. He's not a nice man. Just cast your minds back to how he made his money? From body building...whoopy doo!!! to violent films. These films have had a psychological effect on society. This is fact! You know the words from the song 'Your children will be next'.- Manic street preachers.
Don't be scared. Protest so much and get the fuccker deported! Just tell him he's outstayed his welcome. All you legal eagles must be able to find a clause in your constitution that say's enough is enough! Get rid of him, he's another Bush! By the way what happened to Bush? How can he sleep at night after all he has done? The mind boggles and now you have this clown. Even the Aliens hate him!

Originally posted by jkm1864
The funny thing is these people want communism but in communism if You don't have a job You go to jail until You get Your act together.

Hi jkm,

I don't often hear about people who want even the idealized versions of communism so will disagree about that as much i do with your view that people who do not work in such societies go to jail; don't know where you guys come up with this nonsense.

I believe a empty stomach is the best motivation to go out and get a job.

If you have ever been hungry you would have realised that hunger makes one desperate&depressed far more so than it makes one motivated or aids intelligence. Again the ignorance is telling.

I wouldn't know what to do if my industry closed down but I would still make a go for it. I will probably have to go to africa in the future to get work.

Yes well the hunry people with jobs don't know what to do either and clearly being hungry didn't lead to them finding the solutions you presume to exist. The sentiment that you will 'somehow' find a way where hundreds of millions of others are failing( or did and starved) is based in arrogance and ignorance neither of which is likely to encourage anything but criminal behaviour once your other options runs out.

I wouldn't ever resort to stealing though because whose to say the one You are stealing from is better off than You.

That's why you try to rob those who clearly have more than you even if that is much harder, commiting crimes in policed suburbs, than doing so in the poorer shanty towns where the poor are forced to concregate.

If worse came to worse I would head out to the woods with my family and live like a cave man.

And you might then soon discover that cavemen didn't live long or healthy lives.....

We can point fingers all we want but when the rubber meets the road You are the one ultimately responsible for Your situation and You have the responsibility to take care of Your children not the people down the road that APPEAR to be better off.

And that is why people are trying to work together in communities, unions and other organizations to better our common lot. Why do you insist that each guy have to fight his own private battle against the entrenched power of corporations and national/state governments? Why has the overwhelming majority of the worlds wealthier 'industrialized' citizens chosen this path while people such as yourself try to maintain your 'independence' of action even if it's making you poorer and poorer? Why this belief in a self defeating course of action and why do you think you have come to believe in it?

Stellar