Gay Curriculum Proposal Riles Elementary School Parents

reply to post by DarrylGalasso

The government is not as stupid as people would be led to believe.

I'm not defending the government, I'm using common sense. There's no reason to make such tall claims and assumptions without a stitch of evidence, unless you're seeing what you want to see.

It is in fact the new propaganda.

And you have evidence to show that the government is linked to the production of Nickelodeon cartoons?

I do not intend to be the target of your next attack on a member here for having a differing perspective than you have

I haven't attacked anyone. There's no need for getting personal, stick to the topic. If you're recalling my tiff with another poster, that was because they clearly took my words out of context.

I respect that you feel that the government is innocent and benign,

SHOW ME WHERE I STATED THIS? Never did, in fact I disagreed with this program on the FIRST page of this thread. But you don't have to create a conspiracy out of every issue you disagree with, that's not thinking with an open mind, that's just plain not thinking.

If you would like to engage me in an adult like debate

Now you're insulting me and saying you want an adult debate?

I am a psychologist

Credentials.

I only ask that you provide some credible citations because I certainly will.

What statement have I made that warrants this? Sure, whatever statement it is fetch it and I will. After you can cite credible sources for your claims that this specific school program is part of government manipulation. I welcome your sources, and debate.

[edit on 23-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by TheAmused


Gayness is not an issue, it is a fact of life that stares you in the face every day of your life. You are merely a normal multi-sexual explorer that has found out there is a wide-ranging smorgasbord that is just begging to be tasted. All sex is good, most positions are pleasureable. The fact is men and women derive simular pleasure from performing on either gender. When you get down to the basic act you are either getting a penis pushed into you or you are pushing your penis into them. Gay, lesbian, transexual, whatever.....that is what they can do, the same thing you can do. Or not. Sexual identity cannot be support by taking the problem in hand. All you get are angry repressed people who hate the people who make them feel that way.

This issue is rather simple. Five year-olds should NOT be learning about sexual-related material. Their minds are not mature enough and they are not experiencing puberty at that age anyway. They don't have the concept of a relationship, or marriage so how are they to understand sexual relationships?

This is another ridiculous step by the Political Correctness Gone Mad (PCGM) lobby. Five year olds SHOULD be learning about anti-bullying rules, not talking to strangers, respecting others and listening to their parents, but also having some innocent fun too!

PS: I myself am very passionate about anti-bullying campaigns, I even made a thread on the whole issue of bullying. But this is clearly a case of misjudgement, even if their intentions are good.

[edit on 23/5/2009 by Dark Ghost]

When my daughter was 10 her class was going to teach sex-ed ... including stuff like 'wet dreams' etc ... I was sickened and I pulled her out of the class.

It was a catholic school (yes .. Catholic school was teaching it) .... so I was able to do so and she was able to not be bullied by the kids for missing the classes.

Considering how poorly US school kids do with reading and math, you'd think that they'd spend more time with the young kids on those skills and NOT on teaching them sex matters. No 10 year old girl needs to sit in a mixed gender classroom and hear about boys wetdreams let alone about gay and/or straight sex acts.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Five year olds SHOULD be learning about anti-bullying rules, not talking to strangers, respecting others and listening to their parents.

Yeah and far as I know no bullying, not talking to strangers, respecting others, and listening to your parents is already covered in schools, so this program is pretty useless. How in-depth of an anti-bullying, tolerance lesson can you have with five year olds? Just seems like a waste of education time, and probably money.

reply to post by FlyersFan

about gay and/or straight sex acts.

Confused by this statement, where does the article mention sex acts? Why do people keep assuming sex is involved? The five year olds are not even being taught about GLBTs, that's being proposed for older children.

Edit to add: You can have a conversation about someone wanting to "date" or "loving" the same sex without ever mentioning sexual activity involved. Truth is we don't know what the program is teaching, other than what has been stated, the simple message that some people are different and to respect the instead of judging them or being intolerant. I for one do not think elementary schools need these new programs but there is no reason to embellish the circumstance to try to "demonize" them.



[edit on 23-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Yeah and far as I know no bullying, not talking to strangers, respecting others, and listening to your parents is already covered in schools, so this program is pretty useless. How in-depth of an anti-bullying, tolerance lesson can you have with five year olds? Just seems like a waste of education time, and probably money.

I would argue that anti-bullying is NOT covered near sufficiently (at least before most pupils enter middle/high school). Otherwise I do agree with your post. And it is true that there is only so much you can teach such a young human so early in their life.

P.S. I think 5 year olds are far more likely to ask "why did that man kill those people?" than "what is oral sex?"

[edit on 23/5/2009 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


If you tell little kids that someone is straight ... gay .... transgender ... etc ... they are going to say 'what's that mean'. And therefore the teacher has to explain what that is .... men having sex with men ... women having sex with women .... men having sex with women ....

The next question will be 'what is sex'.

I've volunteered in the elementary level school classes for 4 years now. I promise you, those questions will come up.

The teacher can't say this - 'dont' bully Johnny because he's gay' ... without hearing in response 'what is gay?'. There is only one way to answer that ...


It's not the 'gay' thing being taught that I take issue with. (that's just reality) It's 'in general' sex stuff being taught to elementary school kids. Like I said - when my daughter was 10 she was supposed to sit through classes that discussed wet dreams and arrousal and ejaculations and ________ (FILL IN THE BLANK) ....

That's way to young and in mixed gender classes they were all embarrassed. Those are the kinds of things parents should be teaching, and if they are in a school at all it should be science/health class and at an older age.

What happened to Readin', wRitin', and aRithematic? People have absolutely lost their minds. What happened to common sense? You don't teach gay anything in schools. I've always felt this way about sex in schools. We figure out the birds and bees, not always in a sexual way. Let's keep this out of our schools. This isn't education, it's indoctrination! Tavistock is up to it again!

reply to post by FlyersFan

And therefore the teacher has to explain what that is .... men having sex with men ... women having sex with women .... men having sex with women ....

Why does everyone assume that? These are fifth graders they're discussing, not the five year olds. They probably already know what gay means in general. Really, do we think our teachers are so dumb that they can not explain that sometimes boys like boys or girls like girls the way girls and boys like each other, and that those people should be respected and not picked on? And that if you like a friend that doesn't mean you are gay and you probably won't know for sure until you're older, and if you have any other questions you'll have to discuss it with your parents. Is that really so difficult? I don't know why people think teachers are so incompetent all of a sudden, if they can't get around talking about relationships without talking about sex then I can't imagine them having the capability to handle any sensitive subject, which is something a teacher needs.

reply to post by FlyersFan

It's 'in general' sex stuff being taught to elementary school kids. Like I said - when my daughter was 10 she was supposed to sit through classes that discussed wet dreams and arrousal and ejaculations and ________ (FILL IN THE BLANK) ....

I agree with you 100%, totally uncalled for, probably humiliating for many of the children and ten year olds do not need to learn any such details about sex at school, but it just seems a tad off topic to me, considering this program never mentions sexual education of any kind.

[edit on 23-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

This is just plain ridiculous. You do not teach children about sexuality at that age. I don't remember children ever being taught about normal relationships so why are they being taught about ones that aren't the norm. Personally I do not think that there should be any teaching about sexuality in schools (gay or otherwise), especially at that age.

You learn about different things as you go through life and find things out your own way. You are not taught what to think by the state. Also even if they were to teach about sexuality (which should be done much later in life than what they are suggesting) you would think that they would teach them about the norm first rather than what they are doing. This way they will just increase confusion as children see normal relationships and marriages around them (especially those of their parents) and are taught at school that the other way is normal. It is one thing to be tolerant but this is just taking things too far.

-Cauch1

Originally posted by one_man24


The biggest travesty is that they say the parents have no right to pull their children out of these classes!!! We should be the ones to educate our children on sensitive issues. We don't need the state, or big government, to indoctrinate our children with what they deem to be appropriate. I won't force your children to praise Yahweh, and you don't force my children to see homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle (no problem with the person, but I don't agree with the lifestyle). What has become of this country? God help us all.

a star for you.. It would seem you are deemed responsible enough to create children but it seems more and more like the state will decide what becomes of your children. parents no longer have right to their children. see that houser woman who has had to become a fugitive in order to save her child from the state who wish to inject her child with that chemo drug. Never mind what has become of your country.. This is planet wide problem with the state nanny forcing it's way into every aspect of your life.. So now they wish to tell you'r children that homosexuality is ok. Now that is crazy.

School can be a tough place.. Sure you will get name calling. It's just kids. It toughens kids up. Years ago it was ok for teachers to abuse kids.. what was done about that.. Nothing. What was done about abusive priests years ago.. nothing.. But yet they want to demonize name calling which to me is a minor issue. I would think that the few suicides would have happened any-way. If they weren't called names at school these same suicide cases would probably have ended it all over a pretty nasty breakup with their girlfriends or something stupid like that.

I think the state should keep it's nose out of family business.. I mean they couldn't run the country what makes them qualified to run the families..

peace

daz__

a star for you.. It would seem you are deemed responsible enough to create children but it seems more and more like the state will decide what becomes of your children. parents no longer have right to their children. see that houser woman who has had to become a fugitive in order to save her child from the state who wish to inject her child with that chemo drug. Never mind what has become of your country.. This is planet wide problem with the state nanny forcing it's way into every aspect of your life.. So now they wish to tell you'r children that homosexuality is ok. Now that is crazy.

School can be a tough place.. Sure you will get name calling. It's just kids. It toughens kids up. Years ago it was ok for teachers to abuse kids.. what was done about that.. Nothing. What was done about abusive priests years ago.. nothing.. But yet they want to demonize name calling which to me is a minor issue. I would think that the few suicides would have happened any-way. If they weren't called names at school these same suicide cases would probably have ended it all over a pretty nasty breakup with their girlfriends or something stupid like that.

I think the state should keep it's nose out of family business.. I mean they couldn't run the country what makes them qualified to run the families..

peace

daz__

Teaching children to respect others at a young age is likely to combat all of those bad things you mention. If they then start experiencing bad things like abuse form their parents, they are likely to ask why they should treat others when their parents do things to them they dont like. Then the problem should be resolved. It is all about education. People will still decide to end their lives. But I would be willing to bet 80% (yep, 8 out of 10) suicides could be prevented by simply educating children just how bad bullying can be. And don't be under the illusion that bullying is simply saying "you smell funny" and it's over and done with just like that. You know that's not how it works!

And by respecting other people I don't mean they should be educated about sexual diversity. Rather, they should be taught that making fun of somebody else is bad for them and the other person.


[edit on 23/5/2009 by Dark Ghost]

Dear California,

Please teach my kid things about sexuality that is appropriate for a 5 year old. Since starting Kindergarten his other teacher, the Xbox, has not been able to spend that much time with him. Also, please show him that bullying is wrong because I am a inept parent and I have no idea how to instill values in my child. I would rather anyone other than myself teach my child.


SIGNED
Someone that probably should never have had a kid

The problem is the parents. I feel for that kid 3 weeks ago from the virgin islands that killed himself because he was being bullied about being gay (even though he wasn't). You have to blame the parents for raising a kid to be that way. If I heard about my son doing something like that I would correct him with my fist. Raise your kids people, don't let a state do it for you.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
I would be willing to bet 80% (yep, 8 out of 10) suicides could be prevented by simply educating children just how bad bullying can be.

Oh please. Do you really think that children do not know just how bad bullying is. I think that you underestimate their intelligence due to their age. I remember when I was at primary school there was bullying, nearly everyone had experienced it but it did not stop them bullying others. Do you honestly think that by telling people how bad bullying affects others it will make them stop. Isn't part of the whole point (no the whole point) of bullying to make your victim suffer.

Besides this is getting kind of off the point here. We are now talking about a different age group and subject to before. What we are talking about are children at the very start of their education being taught about relationships (and abnormal ones at that). I do not believe that they should be taught about sexuality at either end of the spectrum by the state and definitely not at that age and on only that type of sexuality (surely it would make more sense to teach them about the normal kind first).

And don't be under the illusion that bullying is simply saying "you smell funny" and it's over and done with just like that. You know that's not how it works!

I think that we are completely off topic here but nonetheless, why is it more than that. The main part of bullying is just small and unimportant slights like that. Serious bullying happens rarely and even then is extremely unlikely to lead to suicide.

And by respecting other people I don't mean they should be educated about sexual diversity. Rather, they should be taught that making fun of somebody else is bad for them and the other person.

Well for a start what we are dealing with here is a case where the children are being taught about sexual diversity. Oh wait they are not you are right. They are just being taught about one part of sexuality no diversity. Also what happened to the days when the parents told the children that they should not bully other children. The state is getting too involved these days it needs to pull back a bit (well a lot actually) and let individuals and families deal with things.

-Cauch1

This is not only appropriate subject matter for schools, but it should be mandatory from an early age on, with age appropriate materials and teaching lessons brought in from grade one on. This is exactly the correct place to teach this, as with children you need to start young, and this matter is societal, and must not be left in the hands of parents, this should not be discretionary, or a matter of personal credo and perception.

reply to post by mystiq


Whats the next step?

Telling kids what religion to follow or not follow any at all?

Which groups of people to fear?

Which values the state thinks people should have?

You walk a fine line.

Personally I want my kid to be able to spell, create a sentence, and possibly even turn a fraction into a decimal. I don't know just some things seem more important than others.

reply to post by TheAmused


If parents educated their children properly I would agree. But they don't.

They're quite happy to leave it to schools and the state to educate in every respect, until it's something they feel is "not appropriate".

The fact is, gay lifestyles and community are a part of modern existence, kids need to be taught how to treat other people and respect the rights of others. I would be suspicious as to why these parents think there is anything wrong with their kids being taught how to treat others with respect, do they think that gay people don't deserve rights and respect? If that's the case, their kids will face a serious disadvantage.

This is just another example of knee-jerk reaction by conservative nut jobs with a chip on their shoulder about gay rights and equality. And yes, some of those kids will grow up to be gay, but not because the school told them to be.

If they have a problem with it, they should take their kids out of school and educate them themselves at home. Save the community some money and allow decent parents to get their kids into forward thinking schools that can adequately keep up with an ever changing world.
Those kids educated there will go a lot further in life and contribute more to society than those with a strange phobia of equality.

reply to post by mystiq

"This is not only appropriate subject matter for schools, but it should be mandatory from an early age on................"

So says the Canadian socialist! How about Canadians leave decisions pertaining to the moral development of America's children to American families.

If Canadians choose to follow in the footsteps of the Bolsheviks than that is their prerogative;however, keep your politics on your side of the border. Just as it would be improper for an American to offer up opinions and suggestions as to how Canada (and Canadian families) deal with their family matters.

The notion that a five year old should be bombarded with the Gay/Lesbian desensitization agenda is absurd. And that is all this boils down to. As previous posters have stated once you begin explaining how it is wrong to bully people for being gay or lesbian the following questions will be, "what is gay/lesbian?" At that point you must explain what it is to be a homosexual and it then becomes a campaign to desensitize them to that sort of sexuality when they have yet to learn what it is to be heterosexual. More or less begin to fathom the notion of sexuality in the first place. I know that there are those that will hold fast to the blissful idea that “this is not about sex” but the point remains that sex will come up in conversation somewhere at some point, and not all teachers are created equal. Nor should this be the decision of the state.

My GOD people can't we just let children be innocent for a little while??? Don't you see that they are loosing their innocence earlier and earlier already as it is without the schools forcing it out of them!

"This is exactly the correct place to teach this,"

"and must not be left in the hands of parents,"

Regardless of what you may believe, a school is not the place to teach them about this sort of thing. It is the place of a parent to teach their children to respect other “INDIVIDUALS!” It's not the place of the school system to teach a child morals and values. The state is not the guardian of our children nor are they the ones that care for our children. Canada may have taken a Socialist turn but the US has yet to crack under the pressure of the leftist agenda. Responsible parents and citizens are not ready to surrender our family unit or to the "Party!"

"and this matter is societal,"

Since when did it become the right of another human being to tell one person what to do with their child (so long as they are doing no physical harm to that child)?

or a matter of personal credo and perception."

Furthermore, when did we (AMERICANS) come to a point where the government can make such an obvious form of indoctrination compulsory??? Where does this government derive these powers from???????? Nowhere in or Constitution does it give authority to the government to steer the morals of our youth. Nor does it give them authority to strip parents of the right to teach their children according to their own "credo and perception!"

This is actually one of the fundamental reasons for the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Others will have you believe that it was solely for the purpose of keeping the Church out of Government business when in fact it was also to keep Government out of the practices,"credo, and perception" of the people.

If you are not familiar with the laws of our land please do not weigh in.