Gay Curriculum Proposal Riles Elementary School Parents

The reality is that there are bad people. People who act like idiots. And with proper guidance, most go on uncaring by adulthood. In the modern age, if you don't learn the basics, I really don't know how. The amount of exposure to anti-bulling guidance is immense. I can't go a day without seeing it. That being said, there will always be suicides, that'll never end. But most people get their earliest social experience from school and friends, thus making the foundation tor resisting. If they don't learn resistance to bullying there, there's a much larger chance of suicide later. Kids don't even understand suicide, usually at least. so they learn ways to resist it then, because suicide isn't an option to them. The fear of death stops most as well. So the basic point is that learning to deal with idiots young is better than just learning at 20. kids don't commit suicide unless seriously torchered (I'm talking serious like physical abuse, not just name calling) . Adults commit suicide because of all kinds of more complex reason, simply because their brains and emotional connections are more developed.

Basically, the class bully is one of the foundations of society, and the ultimate conquest of no longer caring what the class bully says makes one self respectful and motivated to resist silliness like that for their whole life.

As for physical abuse, unfortunately it doesn't go noticed, and classes won't stop it. I've been to school with kids like that. The only way to stop them is to fight back, though I never did and still regret it.

reply to post by Gorman91

If you had been seriously bullied, you would not feel that way. I felt like dying when I was not even in my teens yet from the torments of going to school. It has left me with lifelong emotional scars. I would give anything to make sure no other child had to go through what I did, as it did not make me a better person, it made me a bitter, resentful, violent person who doesn't believe any good about themselves.

Not to mention it's left me stuck at home alone as I can't face the outside world alone, and it has made it so I flat out refuse to meet my fiancee's friends for fear they too would hate me just like every other person I've met in my life.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
reply to post by Gorman91

 

If you had been seriously bullied, you would not feel that way. I felt like dying when I was not even in my teens yet from the torments of going to school. It has left me with lifelong emotional scars. I would give anything to make sure no other child had to go through what I did, as it did not make me a better person, it made me a bitter, resentful, violent person who doesn't believe any good about themselves.

Not to mention it's left me stuck at home alone as I can't face the outside world alone, and it has made it so I flat out refuse to meet my fiancee's friends for fear they too would hate me just like every other person I've met in my life.

I'm glad we are on the same wavelength in regards to the issue of bullying. However, I really believe you are being too hard on yourself. Kids that bully others are not aware of the long-term damage they are doing to the victim. This is something that needs to be changed. Besides promoting better anti-bullying education, you should be proving to yourself that the hurtful remarks were not true and you are bigger than that. Instead of giving up and falsely believing the things they said, challenge yourself to overcome and conquer these obstacles.

Remember, you cannot change the past, but you can create a rich and fulfilling future if you are willing to overcome your fears and insecurities.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
In this case, many of the parents are teaching that it's ok to call kids gay. Some even go further, allowing children to think it is alright to hurt or even kill for being gay. Not at 5 but if they are taught young enough that it is ok, they won't go out and beat kids up later in life for it.

ANY parent that has a problem with this has a problem with gay people in my eyes.

The parents are really teaching that? I find that extremely hard to believe due to it being an unreasonable statement and having nothing to back it up.
Also that is being quite bigoted to say that a parent who has something against their child being taught about homosexuality has something against gay people. Maybe they just don't want their child exposed to certain things at that age and intend on teaching the child themselves. Maybe they have nothing AGAINST gay people but neither do they want their child to be learning about them.

I went through school and was called names like that before I even knew what they meant!
It is a horrible thing to experience and this class should help cut down on childhood depression and suicide. What kind of person opposes that

Oh come on you are acting like you are so different having been bullied at school. Almost everyone was. I highly doubt that this will lead to a reduction in depression and suicide. No matter how much you try and brainwash a person they still choose for themselves in the end, you can't force them to take your view on homosexuality.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack

Originally posted by GeeGee
Kids shouldn't be taught about sexuality at that early of an age. This issue should be addressed at a later age, ideally high school. I agree with the rest of the curriculum concerning bullying and respect.

Except for the fact that children YOUNGER than high school are killing themselves because children of their own age are calling them "fag"
My little cousin called a video game "gay" when he was 8. This was a few years ago, and it is only getting worse the longer we wait. Kids are getting old faster.

And the children using the word fag probably do not know that it relates to gay people. In the past it had nothing to do with gayness and it still is used for other things in certain circles. "Fag" is just a general insult like "git" it does not mean that the children are bullying them due to a perceived view of their sexuality. Much more likely that is is just being used as an insult they know that can be used in all occasions. Also I have never heard of a case of a child pre-high school committing suicide for any reason just because at that age it does not cross your mind as a way out.

Kids are hitting puberty younger and younger. It is not uncommon for a girl to get her period at 10.

That has nothing to do with society that is to do with improved diet allowing their bodies to reach puberty earlier whereas in the past they would have lacked the nutrition to do so.

I believe that 5 year olds understand what a relationship is, even if it is in a younger, toned-down version. Why? Because in kindergarten I was teased for not having a dad. They obviously knew that a relationship existed between their parents, and that my parent not being in one was strange and different.

No children will use any aspect of someone else that is different to the norm as a reason for teasing. It does not relate to homosexuality. If you want to stop bullying for the sorts of things that you describe the number of anti-bullying lessons would exceed academic ones: people with glasses, people who are short, people who are tall, people who are fat etc. You cannot waste time on such things it is impractical and they will learn more just from living as they grow.

I believe that if they are told "Some boys like boys, some girls like girls, some like both" They won't immediately turn around and say "mommy, daddy, what's anal sex?"
Unless they're already asking what you do at night when the door is closed, they won't think other people do things like that either.

That is rather untactful and unnecessary to accuse people who oppose these lessons of committing sodomy which is illegal in certain states.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack

Originally posted by Gorman91
Bullying is part of life. If gays aren't bullied young like everyone else, including the nose picker, the fat kid, the bent back, etc etc, they can never learn self respect or love, and they'll just be set up to be emotionally distraught when they enter the real world and get made fun of.

Adults shouldn't pick on people either.

And fyi, bullying to this extent does NOT create self love/respect
It creates self hate which leads in many cases to suicide. Not everyone was teased in school. Maybe everyone who goes to this website

Maybe adults should not pick on each other but the harsh facts are that they do. And bullying does help in development. You cannot survive in this world if you are so thin skinned that you are unable to deal with being insulted and picked on. Not everyone was teased on school but most were and that is the way that is it. Gorman is right and as I have earlier said in this post children will pick on all types of people for whatever makes them different to the norm. You are wrong, in most cases bullying in the end will lead to a child becoming tougher and less reliant on others. This sets them up better for the real world.

-Cauch1

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack
If you had been seriously bullied, you would not feel that way. I felt like dying when I was not even in my teens yet from the torments of going to school. It has left me with lifelong emotional scars. I would give anything to make sure no other child had to go through what I did, as it did not make me a better person, it made me a bitter, resentful, violent person who doesn't believe any good about themselves.

Not to mention it's left me stuck at home alone as I can't face the outside world alone, and it has made it so I flat out refuse to meet my fiancee's friends for fear they too would hate me just like every other person I've met in my life.

So because you have overly reacted that it means that every other child should be affected. I was seriously bullied. Physically and verbally. But I came out better from it in the end. But that does not mean that we should go around encouraging bullying. You cannot look at things on the individual scale. In the majority of cases bullying does not lead to suicide and will help children become tougher. When considered on the overall scale the number of suicides compared to the number of people who are bullied is extremely low.

Besides how would teaching children about homosexual relationships help discourage bullying. They will either be prejudiced against a group or they won't. Also in the majority of cases someone's sexual orientation will not be the reason for bullying. This is just a case of one minority group having things blown out of proportion for them by the government. I see no campaigns to teach children to accept those who are fat or wear glasses which, lets face it, are more common causes for bullying and factors that cannot be hidden.

Originally posted by Welfhard

B)That's your opinion.

No that's what science has discovered, sexual orientations are hardwired into the brain.

Actually that is still opinion. It is hypothesised the sexual orientations are hardwired, but not yet proven.

Originally posted by GeeGee
Fourth, it's illegal.

I know it's hard, but you could at least try not to sound like a bigot.

It used to be illegal to be homosexual. By your standards then wouldn't that make homosexuality immoral?

-Cauch1

Originally posted by TheAmused

the parents are right here.

it's not the school's place to teach about gayness.
it's the parent's.


www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22-5-2009 by TheAmused]

Ya, because they're doing such a good job parenting now

reply to post by Cauch1


I disagree with using such large quotes in this forum so you'll have to use your own post as a reference. Each number represents the corresponding paragraph of your first post, followed by your next.

1)Many parents are teaching their children that homosexuality is wrong. They are verbally abusing men who exhibit feminine qualities in front of their children. I have seen it more times than I can count, in a fairly accepting area of the world at that. (Vancouver, it has a very prominent gay community, yet some have problems with that)
If you have a problem with your child being exposed to the fact that some people are gay (bearing in mind that that is not scheduled until grade 5, which is between ages 11-13 approximately) then you should not allow them access to the television, internet, or the outside world. And no, it really doesn't matter what tv show. I, and probably a lot more people near my age, found out some people like the same gender as them on Friends, which wasn't exactly a "risque" show.
Honestly, if you don't want your child to know they exist, how can you say you have no problems with it? Why is it a problem for your child to know one tiny section of the issue, since I'm assuming you also think they shouldn't know sex exists, so all they would know is some boys/girls kiss other boys/girls. What is the enormous problem with that to their tiny little minds?
2.Actually, I was bullied at 14 schools. I switched schools, towns, and countries to try to get away from what I was facing, which every counselor I have met says definitely wasn't something I was doing, as I was to begin with a fairly normal child in almost every way. Average physically at the very least so there was no way for them to spot any difference. Informing someone that gay people exist and that they are people too is not brainwashing, you are taking this all way out of proportion.
3.If you had read the thread you would have seen discussions about a 12 year old who killed themselves because children at school would not stop calling him a "fag" (despite him not being, or at least not knowing in the slightest if he was, gay) I have had conversations with this boy's mother. She goes to schools and GSA meetings telling his story.
As for young children:
en.wikipedia.org... Age 13 attending Middle School, 8th grade. It was all over the news. And everywhere online too.

www.suicide.org...
"Suicide is the third leading cause of death for young people aged 15-24 year olds.
(1st = accidents, 2nd = homicide)
Suicide is the fifth leading cause of death for young people aged 5-14 year olds. "
Note the chart: U.S. Suicide Statistics (1990-2001) Suicide Rates Breakdown by Age Groups
Age 5-14, 2001: 0.7/ 100,000 people. Seem small? Wait a moment for the math.
(note that in some years in the 90s it was even higher.)
In 2001, the population of the US was "278,058,881 (July 2001 est.)" According to google. Divide by 100,000, and multiply by 0.7.
It makes 1946. So, 5 +1/3 per day. Five under-highschool-aged CHILDREN died of suicide every day. I read an article a few weeks ago, maybe you would be interested. Since it plain old "doesn't cross your mind at that age".
cbs2.com...
"A 7-year-old boy who allegedly hanged himself complained to his therapists that he was "a bad person," and "born a liar," taught to lie by his own mother, according to newly released documents."
And another. I doubt I'll make it to the rest of your post at this rate.
www.edgeboston.com...
Another 11-Year-Old Commits Suicide: Anti-Gay Taunts Cited
"Herrera,a fifth grader, reportedly endured harassment and bullying at school despite Georgia law meant to prohibit it."
Oh, would you look at that! Fully related! Super, since those last couple were just to prove children do kill themselves. Fifth grade, when this is supposed to be in classes soon. Killing himself over gay taunts. At 11. In the fifth grade.
Another something for you.
"Jennifer Errion added that such laws exist in the context of "a society that is often misguided. We’ve created the idea that bullying is a rite of passage, and I don’t think it is.""
"Herrera’s mother told the media that when she asked her son’s friend about the bullying Herrera reportedly endured, "He said, ’Yes ma’am. He told me that he’s tired of everybody always messing with him in school.’"
The friend added, "’He is tired of telling the teachers and the staff, and they never do anything about the problems. So, the only way out is by killing himself.’""
4.That comment was in regards to the idea of a VERY basic Sex-Ed being taught younger, as it becomes a necessity. Since now, sex-ed isn't really officially taught until around highschool, well after girls experience things that are covered in it.
5.Yes. Children should be taught not to tease people for having glasses or being overweight.
6.The lessons are not teaching anal sex. I was simply saying that telling a young child who according to their parents doesn't even know about sex at all that some people LIKE other kinds of people should NOT lead to sex talks at all. Teachers get pregnant, do you suggest that they not be allowed to teach from the moment they show lest your children start asking where babies come from? Should their potential older siblings be forbidden from dating until they move out of the house in case the younger child asks why people date?
I know people who have been absolutely devastated by things in school. And people who didn't face any bullying at all who grew up just fine. Their adult minds had learnt that they were, in fact, alright. Possibly even a good person. So people bullying them once they know that would be laughable. Children don't develop that from bullying, they develop it from tolerance and kindness.
7."better" is an opinion. In my opinion, you're no better off than me. It just shows in a different way.
If you look at some of my sources posted, (which I assume you won't as nobody ever seems to) You will see that currently, sexual orientation or presumed orientation (which means they aren't gay but people think they are anyways) accounts for over 1/3 of all bullying in schools. So your "majority" is slight.

reply to post by BiohazardsBack


Well I feel that your case is not the majority, otherwise most kids would be dead. I was seriously bullied, but by 2nd grade I realized a simple thing. Who cares? No one told me this and no one alerted me to this. My parents bought a psychiatrist who really did little except play games. It was mainly on my own. By second grade I came to the realization that I am my own and I couldn't really care what these silly children were telling me. And since then bulling never affected me. I then spent time telling it to other kids being bullied. My siblings and I are kind of labeled "Moses of the freaks" but hey! it worked! And that's my point. A simply lesson learned young results in great success later in life. I also used the bulling to motivate myself to success. SO that now when I see a bully, I simply say 'I forgive you" and I look like the superior. You can see the resentment in their eyes, that all their years of bulling were a total waste of time on their part. That it never even breached the epidermis of my being of care. For a bully to realize just how weak he is and how little change he put into his victim... well, it goes a long way into teaching an unteachable lesson to a bully. And that lesson is that your life is pointless. Everything you did as a youth to the fullest extent, was a waste. You did nothing those 18 years but annoy others, and in the process, doomed your life to nothingness, that you now have to bring to the reunion and show all your victims who are now richer, more successful, and married to better, higher quality women and men then you will ever meet in your life.

That, very simple, is conquest over the bully.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 31-5-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Cauch1

It used to be illegal to be homosexual. By your standards then wouldn't that make homosexuality immoral?

-Cauch1

illegal =/= immoral (not always)

Possession of marijuana is illegal in the United States. Yet, I see nothing immoral about it.

Originally posted by Cauch1

Originally posted by Welfhard

B)That's your opinion.

No that's what science has discovered, sexual orientations are hardwired into the brain.

Actually that is still opinion. It is hypothesised the sexual orientations are hardwired, but not yet proven.

It's a hypothesis that is supported by the studies. With things like the well documented Older Brother Effect, the explanation that science has come up with is that the orientation a child will develop is determined by the of the mother during birth.

reply to post by chise61

The only reason that what you said was taken out of context was the fact that you yourself put it out of context by replying to that which you did not understand.

Nope, that was all your doing.

I stated my opinion using your related post as your failure to comprehend Chesire cat's post made your post relevant.

I didn't fail to comprehend anything, nice try again.

I'm sorry but it would seem as though you are the clearly the one guilty of of not bothering to read someone's post correctly

You already admitted that you misread my post, bipolar much?

it is you that insists upon arrogantly and immaturely carrying this debate

You're the one who replied to me and continued to after the misunderstanding was cleared, remember?

That would be easy to do if you would make sure that you do not reply to something that you do not comprehend

Do you own a mirror?

I am done with this "debate"

Sure, if I'd been back online and replied sooner you'd probably still be rambling about this bs despite the actual discussion that took place. Hope this improved your ego, you obviously needed it.

If Chesire cat's thinks that I misrepresented their words then they have been awfully quiet, they never stated this and I'm willing to discuss it with them, you have only injected yourself further into Chesire cat's and my debate because you're ticked off for completely misunderstanding my words and then arguing with me about it incessantly. Don't be embarrassed, it happens, but at least have the decency to admit it and move on.


reply to post by Con Science


Yeah, I agreed with what you said and addressed that ON THE FIRST PAGE. I was never arguing that competence made it okay, please start from the beginning, comprehend the discussion, or do not bother.

[edit on 8-6-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by Con Science

We assume it because we have all BEEN THERE

When have you taught any such class? Please enlighten me, what schooling did you go through that did not give you the capability to handle a classroom if a few tough questions were thrown your way?