Gay Curriculum Proposal Riles Elementary School Parents

Originally posted by lazy1981
You people are starting to sound an awful lot like the INQUISITORS that you rail about. Now that's scary.

Perhaps you are confused regarding whom you are replying to. I never once referred to INQUISITORS. I was discussing the bible, and, as far as I know, there are no inquisitors mentioned in the bible.

By the way, I'm just one person, not multiple characters.

That's why my posts aren't immediately followed by similar ones with another user-name on.

Kids shouldn't be taught about sexuality at that early of an age. This issue should be addressed at a later age, ideally high school. I agree with the rest of the curriculum concerning bullying and respect.

Originally posted by TheAmused

people can love there animal's too man..its called bestiality
and its a perversion .

and thus WRONG..
So why is it harder to understand same sex is no different.

so yes its a valid argument.

Uh no, it's not.

Firstly, it's animal abuse.

Second, it's intercourse with another species.

Third, it's not consensual.

Fourth, it's illegal.

I know it's hard, but you could at least try not to sound like a bigot.

reply to post by Cauch1

Originally posted by Cauch1
Oh please do grow up. The guy did have a point. If you put all homosexual people on an island by themselves then with a few decades the island would have been depopulated or the people would have turned to heterosexual intercourse. He is making a viable point that in nature homosexuality will lead to your removal from the gene pool.

Oh golly, swing and miss! The reality is that they will breed. The only thing a island full of gay people need to breed is a turkybastor and then there is the fact that a lot of them wouldn't be exclusively homosexual. Putting the gays aside for a moment there are lots of people you could put on an island and they will be unable to breed, impotent men, baron women, the elderly, the sick and disabled etc. They would not be able to reproduce in nature, yet we do not consider their couplings wrong in any way, maybe unfortunate, but at the end of the day a couples (in)ability is not the deciding factor on whether or not the union is good or acceptable.

Going back to the gays on an island, you'll find that a proportion will reproduce be it through actual sex or some intervention, and since we all know that gays are born to strait parents and straits are born to gay parents, there will be more straits than gays born and the human race will continue.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Welfhard]

OK!

I think that we have all played a part in pulling this thread a little off course, so lets get back on track.

How about we leave the hypothetical situations, religion, and debates about homosexuality out of it all together. This is about forced curriculum in the schools and our opinions on it. There are obviously opinions that factor into a pro or con stance as it pertains to this proposed legislation. But I think that we can all agree that we shouldn't allow those opinions to rule the argument and take over the thread.

As I said I know that we (myself included) have veered from the main topic of the thread, so lets just leave these topics alone and either get back to the main point or let the thread dwindle.



[edit on 25-5-2009 by lazy1981]

reply to post by lazy1981


I think any rational human being can see teaching 5 yearolds about gays, lesbians, etc is not right.

reply to post by Welfhard


I appreciate your reply, but I think that all of questions you asked me are answered in my earlier posts. I don't think I was being judgemental at all. Just want to raise my kids the best I can, according to what I believe. I won't try to stop you from being gay. Read my earlier posts.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by lazy1981

 

I think any rational human being can see teaching 5 yearolds about gays, lesbians, etc is not right.

I can agree with you wholeheartedly. I even go so far as to take the "radical" viewpoint that parents are responsible for and entitled to instill the morals and values into their childeren and not any body of the government.

It's a parents responsibility to teach their child that all people are to be respected "as a person" and not simply because they are this sort or that sort of person. people are people, we don't have to accept everything about them but we do have to accept their differences for what they are and simply respect them as people. That's all that needs to be taught to a 5 year old child and it's best that a parent does it.

Originally posted by one_man24
reply to post by Welfhard

 

I appreciate your reply, but I think that all of questions you asked me are answered in my earlier posts. I don't think I was being judgemental at all. Just want to raise my kids the best I can, according to what I believe. I won't try to stop you from being gay.

Well I wouldn't advise it as it would be merely an act of futility for two reasons. A) Because I am not gay, and B) because one cannot control one's own sexuality, much less anyone else's.

But what I would ask you is would you condemn me for it?

If not then great, do try to teach your children similar indifference to issues not their own.

If so then go look up John 3:17:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Thereby making other peoples choices irrelevant to you.

And yes I am an atheist.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by lazy1981

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by lazy1981

 

I think any rational human being can see teaching 5 yearolds about gays, lesbians, etc is not right.

I can agree with you wholeheartedly. I even go so far as to take the "radical" viewpoint that parents are responsible for and entitled to instil the morals and values into their children and not any body of the government.

It's a parents responsibility to teach their child that all people are to be respected "as a person" and not simply because they are this sort or that sort of person. people are people, we don't have to accept everything about them but we do have to accept their differences for what they are and simply respect them as people. That's all that needs to be taught to a 5 year old child and it's best that a parent does it.

I would go even further and say that these values and responsibilities ought to be what defines "parent(s/ing)". School isn't supposed to parent children. School is for teaching literacy, arithmetics and general worldly and secular things like art, history and the sciences - even though those last two are going to be very minimal for elementary/primary schools.

I hate what's happening to so called "education" these days. My mum is a primary school principle and I found out recently that kids today aren't allowed to climb trees or in some cases play 'Tig' or 'tag' depending on where you're from. Why? Because they might hurt themselves.. [facepalm.jpg - /sigh/]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard

Well I wouldn't advise it as it would be merely an act of futility for two reasons. A) Because I am not gay, and B) because one cannot control one's own sexuality, much less anyone else's.

A) Are you sure? B)That's your opinion.

But what I would ask you is would you condemn me for it?

But what I would ask is....would you read my earlier posts?

If not then great, do try to teach your children similar indifference to issues not their own.

If not, then you must be addressing me specifically because I'm a christian. Because if you had read my posts we wouldn't be talking, about this at least.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Good quote. Jesus is the savior of the world.

Thereby making other peoples choices irrelevant to you.

When it concerns my children, or my faith, it is all relevant. As I said before, in earlier posts, I don't have a problem with the person who is gay, but I won't advocate the lifestyle. Or any other wrong thing.

And yes I am an atheist.

That's very obvious, what with the whole way you started saying things to me that made no sense in relation to my posts. You just saw some christian talking about the bible, blah blah blah, attack, because they are all stupid people who believe in the magical sky fairy, or the flying spaghetti monster that most certainly doesn't exist (btw, that also is just an opinion). It's quite obvious that you didn't really read what I posted, otherwise you would never have addressed my earlier statements in the manner you did, just as it's also quite obvious that you have an issue with christianity. Let me know if you have something relevant to say to me in regards to what I posted earlier as it relates to the discussion of the OP. Remember that in your quest to "deny ignorance", you're still just believing what someone else is telling you.

Originally posted by one_man24
A) Are you sure?

I don't meet the requirements of the definition of gay so yea, I'm sure.

B)That's your opinion.

No that's what science has discovered, sexual orientations are hardwired into the brain.

When it concerns my children, or my faith, it is all relevant. As I said before, in earlier posts, I don't have a problem with the person who is gay, but I won't advocate the lifestyle. Or any other wrong thing.

It's not a lifestyle, not least in these parts, not everyone who is gay leads the stereotypical gay lifestyle.

And yes I am an atheist.

That's very obvious, what with the whole way you started saying things to me that made no sense in relation to my posts.

I quoted your posts making my responses directly relevant.

You just saw some christian talking about the bible,

You weren't talking about the bible, you were talking about how your beliefs pertained to the raising of your children.

blah blah blah, attack, because they are all stupid people who believe in the magical sky fairy, or the flying spaghetti monster that most certainly doesn't exist (btw, that also is just an opinion).

I never called you stupid for your beliefs...

It's quite obvious that you didn't really read what I posted, otherwise you would never have addressed my earlier statements in the manner you did

Actually I did, and I took issue with some of the points made.

, just as it's also quite obvious that you have an issue with Christianity.

Not really, a person can believe anything they want, I couldn't care less. The problem is when they push those beliefs on children thereby indoctrinating them.

Let me know if you have something relevant to say to me in regards to what I posted earlier as it relates to the discussion of the OP.

I've already addressed the OP quite clearly - perhaps you should read my posts..

Remember that in your quest to "deny ignorance", you're still just believing what someone else is telling you.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, is it about the atheism (or to be more specific, atheist agnostic) thing, because I got there by not believing things I was told and arriving at my own conclusions. If it's about the sexuality-is-fixed thing then I'm so sorry, forgive me for actually looking into it and examining the studies and statistics.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by TheAmused

the parents are right here.

it's not the school's place to teach about gayness.
it's the parent's.


www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22-5-2009 by TheAmused]

In this case, many of the parents are teaching that it's ok to call kids gay. Some even go further, allowing children to think it is alright to hurt or even kill for being gay. Not at 5 but if they are taught young enough that it is ok, they won't go out and beat kids up later in life for it.

ANY parent that has a problem with this has a problem with gay people in my eyes. The only reason you wouldn't want your children learning that people who like the same gender as themselves is alright (No they are not going into descriptions of what people do, just that they like the same kind of person) then they should not have a hand in that part of the children's upbringing, really. If any parent voiced concerns over classes that taught that people of other races were ok and shouldn't be picked on just for that, if parents opposed it they would be seen for what they are.

I went through school and was called names like that before I even knew what they meant!
It is a horrible thing to experience and this class should help cut down on childhood depression and suicide. What kind of person opposes that? It's not like they're showing diagrams or anything! MY schools had sex ed from grade 2 in the form of fear mongering. I'll bet most of my generation was equally uncomfortable around their more distant family members after the movies they showed us, telling us that kids get sexually abused by uncles and stuff. (I was nervous around my not-at-all-dangerous uncle for at least 5 years from it)

Originally posted by GeeGee
Kids shouldn't be taught about sexuality at that early of an age. This issue should be addressed at a later age, ideally high school. I agree with the rest of the curriculum concerning bullying and respect.

Except for the fact that children YOUNGER than high school are killing themselves because children of their own age are calling them "fag"
My little cousin called a video game "gay" when he was 8. This was a few years ago, and it is only getting worse the longer we wait. Kids are getting old faster.

Do you suggest on the same note that they shouldn't be taught not to do drugs young too? I have personally met someone who was addicted to heroin when he was maybe 13. But I mean, if the majority of the older population thinks no "kid" would know what drugs are before they are taught it in school, then by all means, don't tell kids not to do drugs.

Kids are hitting puberty younger and younger. It is not uncommon for a girl to get her period at 10. One of the ages in the target group this class is aimed at.
Puberty starts BEFORE you get your period, or was that only taught to me? That's possibly the 3rd or 4th step in puberty.
And yes, I do think the parents SHOULD be teaching tolerance and respect and that some people are different and that's OK. The fact of the matter is, the parents are NOT teaching their children this. The parents have not been teaching their children that in many years. I don't think I was ever given any talk of tolerance by my self-proclaimed left wing mother (who in the end, is much further right than she wants to believe)
Which isn't to say I grew up poorly, but I didn't know a large number of things.
For example, I didn't know in the second grade, that when asked if I believed in god, I should by all means say yes even without knowing what the kid was talking about, lest I be punished the rest of my life for saying no.

I believe that 5 year olds understand what a relationship is, even if it is in a younger, toned-down version. Why? Because in kindergarten I was teased for not having a dad. They obviously knew that a relationship existed between their parents, and that my parent not being in one was strange and different.
I believe that if they are told "Some boys like boys, some girls like girls, some like both" They won't immediately turn around and say "mommy, daddy, what's anal sex?"
Unless they're already asking what you do at night when the door is closed, they won't think other people do things like that either.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack


Except for the fact that children YOUNGER than high school are killing themselves because children of their own age are calling them "fag"
My little cousin called a video game "gay" when he was 8. This was a few years ago, and it is only getting worse the longer we wait. Kids are getting old faster.

Do you suggest on the same note that they shouldn't be taught not to do drugs young too? I have personally met someone who was addicted to heroin when he was maybe 13. But I mean, if the majority of the older population thinks no "kid" would know what drugs are before they are taught it in school, then by all means, don't tell kids not to do drugs.

I believe that 5 year olds understand what a relationship is, even if it is in a younger, toned-down version. Why? Because in kindergarten I was teased for not having a dad. They obviously knew that a relationship existed between their parents, and that my parent not being in one was strange and different.
I believe that if they are told "Some boys like boys, some girls like girls, some like both" They won't immediately turn around and say "mommy, daddy, what's anal sex?"
Unless they're already asking what you do at night when the door is closed, they won't think other people do things like that either.

I think you may be right. Lecturers could find a way to communicate the idea in a way the child could understand.

However, I have to tell you, I think these curriculum's don't really make that much of a difference. When I was a kid, we used to have similar lectures concerning drugs, STD's, bullying, etc. Guess what? Most of the kids I knew still did drugs, still bullied children, and they still had sex without protection. Kids are extremely devious. They pretend to agree and understand when they're around adults, and then they turn into different animals when they're around their own kind.

The only way to have a generation of tolerant, knowledgeable children is to have a new generation of tolerant, knowledgeable parents.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by GeeGee]

-SNIP-

They will kiss and fondle each other because it is taught. With time it will become a very excepted act.
Under the guise that it is a naturally occurring neurological function is a farce, the same gene that was pinpointed is the same abnormal function that make killers kill, and other unsavory social behavior. I am not saying that this is what they are, I am just saying "there is no gene" or if there is they pulled this one out of the back sides and wrongfully claimed this to further there cause.
Big groups and organizations do these things.
We should not fall prey to the overwhelming MINORITY.
Only Gays call others Homophobes, so that we look like bigots.
Like Jews call others anti-Semite, when you catch Israeli killing British solders.
It makes me feel uncomfortable to be hit on by a man in a gym, street, and bar.
What about my feelings, and the feelings of the Majority of the US.
We don't count, that makes me feel small and hurts me mentally.
You want tax breaks and SS adopt each other.
Stop wasting our time we've got a country in danger of becoming a slave nation of Debtors, a military running/ruining our country. Bankers getting paid for destroying us. Get a grip People (all)

Mod Edit - For Profanity.

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[edit on Wed, 27 May 2009 14:27:07 -0500 by MemoryShock]

reply to post by abfinch

You have an awfully sick imagination if you believe children are being taught these things as part of this program.

The part teaching about homosexuality doesn't even begin until grade 5, and then it's only 45 minutes a year. And it's not about sexual behaviours, it's about relationships and avoiding use of insulting terms.

Most children these days do learn about the sexual behaviours you so crudely describe. However they're learning about them from friends, and mostly in a heterosexual context.

Were you seriously unaware that heterosexuals commonly engage in oral sex?

reply to post by GeeGee


"When I was a kid, we used to have similar lectures concerning drugs, STD's, bullying, etc."

And I'm assuming these started much later in your life, considering nobody has said they got sex-ed this young (STDs weren't talked about until I believe grade 9 for me, and I just finished school last year)
By the time you are a teenager you have learnt to smile and fake it, but I think that at 5, you might have a better chance of them actually picking up that being mean is bad. At the moment, a lot of kids that young think it is good still as they get things for it (eg: steal a kid's toy, you get to play with it, etc)

Obviously by the time they taught most kids about drugs and STDs, they were already in their teens, even if it might be the early teens.

Obviously at 5, at this point at least, you don't need to learn about things like drugs and safe sex, but the bullying part is definitely the most important thing to start young.

The only way to have the kind of parents needed for this is to train those parents from a young age
It's not like the people in the world who are intolerant enough to harm people based on some slight difference will be willing to change.

Originally posted by BiohazardsBack

And I'm assuming these started much later in your life, considering nobody has said they got sex-ed this young (STDs weren't talked about until I believe grade 9 for me, and I just finished school last year)
By the time you are a teenager you have learnt to smile and fake it, but I think that at 5, you might have a better chance of them actually picking up that being mean is bad. At the moment, a lot of kids that young think it is good still as they get things for it (eg: steal a kid's toy, you get to play with it, etc)

Obviously at 5, at this point at least, you don't need to learn about things like drugs and safe sex, but the bullying part is definitely the most important thing to start young.

The only way to have the kind of parents needed for this is to train those parents from a young age

It's not like the people in the world who are intolerant enough to harm people based on some slight difference will be willing to change.

It's true. We did not get lectured on drugs and STD's until middle school/high school. I don't really remember at what age bullying was discussed.

Don't get me wrong - I support this curriculum if they can communicate the idea of homosexuality in a way that is appropriate for the child's age. There's nothing wrong with that.

But I still think that ultimately, this kind of program won't be as beneficial as we all want it to be. Parents and peers are too powerful of an influence for a curriculum to have any long-term effect. I think it will only last for the length of time the child is still in elementary school.

I could be proven wrong - and I hope I am.

Bullying is part of life. If gays aren't bullied young like everyone else, including the nose picker, the fat kid, the bent back, etc etc, they can never learn self respect or love, and they'll just be set up to be emotionally distraught when they enter the real world and get made fun of.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
Bullying is part of life. If gays aren't bullied young like everyone else, including the nose picker, the fat kid, the bent back, etc etc, they can never learn self respect or love, and they'll just be set up to be emotionally distraught when they enter the real world and get made fun of.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Gorman91]

Adults shouldn't pick on people either.

And fyi, bullying to this extent does NOT create self love/respect
It creates self hate which leads in many cases to suicide. Not everyone was teased in school. Maybe everyone who goes to this website....Not like we're a reasonable sampling though, now are we?