Aborted Humans Destination

reply to post by Supercertari




Yeah I hesitate to speak for others, but in this case I am pretty darn sure neither of us care in the slightest what you think.

It is our legal right, it is our body, and if you don't like it, well that is just too bad. Maybe one day they will figure out how to transfer those little embryos and implant them in the father (not that far fetched), then this topic will never raise its ugly head again. When the option for the men is "put up or shut up" I expect the silence will be deafening.

Originally posted by Sonya610
reply to post by Supercertari

 

Yeah I hesitate to speak for others, but in this case I am pretty darn sure neither of us care in the slightest what you think.

It is our legal right, it is our body, and if you don't like it, well that is just too bad. Maybe one day they will figure out how to transfer those little embryos and implant them in the father (not that far fetched), then this topic will never raise its ugly head again. When the option for the men is "put up or shut up" I expect the silence will be deafening.

I had to quote this in its entirety for full effect.

I am a man and I agree wholeheartedly with you.

There is a load of thinly-veiled hate in this thread and it's interesting to see who it is coming from. I will be watching further posts with interest.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by aorAki]

Originally posted by aorAki
There is a load of thinly-veiled hate in this thread and it's interesting to see who it is coming from. I will be watching further posts with interest.

There is indeed, so much hate for the unborn, for the self.

Fortunately theres enough love for kittens to lessen the despair.

Originally posted by Supercertari


There is indeed, so much hate for the unborn, for the self.

Nice way to distort what I said.

I had no hate for the unborn when my partner had an abortion. I had immense love and compassion for her, and I will reiterate: There was a very high possibility that she would not have survived the full term of pregnancy. So, in that situation what would you do? Would you risk the life of a loved one and the baby just so you could claim moral high ground (which I don't believe it is, but that's another matter).

I can feel your contempt for me, but seeing as you don't know me from a bar of soap it is laughable.

You have no idea of how I live my life, or the situation(s) I am in, yet you are prepared to point the finger and engage in across-the-board generalisations rather than actually present facts.

All you have done, from reading your posts, is kneejerk into finger pointing and supplying mistruths under the guise of facts.

It makes me exceptionally glad that I am not blinkered by the bigotry and intolerance that is religious faith.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by aorAki]

double post :/


[edit on 17-5-2009 by aorAki]

Why would an "aborted human" go anywhere different to some old bloke who dies in his sleep at 93?

Of course, thats an entirely different question, which is basically a religious one.

Originally posted by aorAki
I can feel your contempt for me, but seeing as you don't know me from a bar of soap it is laughable.

I would call it strange, not laughable, that you take my words and translate them into a feeling of someone else's contempt for you. Perhaps the contempt you feel resides somewhere in yourself for decisions taken. That is sad and I would only offer my compassion, recalling the times my own actions have left me with a sense of contempt for my human frailty. I imagine to have had immense love and compassion for the child aborted and then finally being lead by current convention into that terminal action would leave one with a sense of self-contempt. Religious faith could remove the blinding blinkers of such anxiety about the self and decisions made through the grace of forgiveness.

Don't imagine I feel any contempt for you or those who call themselves brave. I have contempt for a world that would accord such laurels to the ease of "choice" and I would hope many would have contempt for any theory that would care about kittens more than children.

Originally posted by SupercertariDon't imagine I feel any contempt for you or those who call themselves brave. I have contempt for a world that would accord such laurels to the ease of "choice" and I would hope many would have contempt for any theory that would care about kittens more than children.

Why is it any of your business if some care more about kittens rather than kids? We don't HAVE kids. Now if we did that might be an issue.

Instead of judging others who exercise their legal rights with regard to their own reproduction, perhaps you would be best off putting your energy into improving the lives of the precious needy human offspring in your area. Plenty are in foster care, or need mentors, or even need food and such. I have done the same for kittens, perhaps you could find it in yourself to do the same for the precious humans that you worry so much about?

What exactly do you do for these little humans? Besides post angry messages on bulletin boards? You got any foster kids? You donate your time to helping needy children? Or are you an internet warrior?

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Why is it any of your business if some care more about kittens rather than kids? We don't HAVE kids. Now if we did that might be an issue.

You did have kids, you chose not to have them anymore. You are correct in that in these particular instances it is not an issue now as those human lives have been extinguished. The issue is, in general, societal norms which judge these children as disposable whilst spending energy and passion on protecting kittens, seals, whales and trees.

The legal system which protects this "right" also defines "unborn child" as

a child in utero, and the term ‘child in utero’ or ‘child, who is
in utero’ means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any
stage of development, who is carried in the womb.

PUBLIC LAW 108–212

I have done the same for kittens, perhaps you could find it in yourself to do the same for the precious humans that you worry so much about?

What exactly do you do for these little humans? Besides post angry messages on bulletin boards? You got any foster kids? You donate your time to helping needy children? Or are you an internet warrior?

There's quite a bit of judgement and presumption in your questions there. I do plenty more than post messages on bulletin boards. I donate a considerable amount of my time on a weekly basis to needy children from deprived social areas and in addition I donate a solid fortnight of each year to 24/7 care for children with disabilities and social/family problems.

I also advocate a respect of human life offline and online fairly regularly.

I also like kittens too but if I had to swerve a car to miss a kid and hit a kitten I know which way I would steer.

Originally posted by SupercertariI also advocate a respect of human life offline and online fairly regularly.

I also like kittens too but if I had to swerve a car to miss a kid and hit a kitten I know which way I would steer.

Well that is good that you actually do something to truly help these needy humans, and not just bash others because we do nto share the same sentiments.

When it comes to the "value of human life", it is already valued a WHOLE lot more than animals are. Michael Vick is serving TWO YEARS for intentionally torturing and killing his own animals for "fun", and plenty think he should not have been punished at all.

I will worry about the mistreatment of those that have virtually NO rights. Once they are out of the womb human offspring have the same rights as adults in this country, so they are way ahead of the game.

As far as swerving for a strange kid or strange kitten, most all would choose to avoid the kid in that situation for legal reasons alone. Now if it was MY cat/dog and some strange kid, I would save my own first and foremost everytime.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

Hitler ignored it,British, American Berlin,Dresden, hamburg, ect ect Bomber command ignored it.

Bush ignored it,Hussein ignored it (not Obama Barack yet)

Stalin ignored it.

Pol pot ignored it.

Israel ignores it.

In fact we all ignore it.

The ignoring of it has a domino effect.

In fact it is almost impossible for us to concieve ...a world where we dont ignore it.

Abortion is just another we will just ignore it line in human ignorance.

Originally posted by flyindevil
reply to post by Albastion

 

Yeah, there IS a big difference between a fetus in the first trimester and a fetus in the third trimester.
(In previous posts, I was referring to first-trimester fetuses. Sorry for the confusion/ignorance)

I never said anything about fetuses in the third trimester. The picture of the first two months of human development is well within the first trimester, because the first trimester is the first three months. That means that the picture that I linked doesn't even show the whole first trimester because it is missing a month of development.

Personally I think abortion should be legal, and you can go read my previous posts in this thread if you want confirmation of that. However, if we are going to have a thread on it people should know what exactly the laws allow us to do.

Another thing that is crucial to the abortion debate in my opinion, which nobody brought up, is consciousness. I believe that the point of development of consciousness or "experience/memories/learning" should factor into the abortion debate somehow. In my personal opinion, I think drawing the line at first trimester abortions is pretty damn arbitrary and should be subject to scrutiny or based on some sort of scientific principle data that supports the idea that a first trimester abortion is different or better than a second or third trimester abortion. Right now I'm not really too convinced that the two states are that different other than 'survivability' of the infant, but that doesn't really settle any moral debates.

By the way if anyone is pissed off at me for "not picking sides" you can eat dirt for all I care. The stratification of people into different 'opinion camps' is one of the biggest killers of intellectual discussion today. I'm not consistently pro or anti abortion because I think both sides make good points. If you can't see the point that the other side is making, you are being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

As for 'where they will go'... probably the same 'place' as the rest of us. We are all infants in a way, and the time we experience in this world is a minuscule slice of total reality. I'm not sure being born would really things that much.

Originally posted by Albastion

Originally posted by flyindevil
reply to post by Albastion

 

Yeah, there IS a big difference between a fetus in the first trimester and a fetus in the third trimester.
(In previous posts, I was referring to first-trimester fetuses. Sorry for the confusion/ignorance)

I never said anything about fetuses in the third trimester. The picture of the first two months of human development is well within the first trimester, because the first trimester is the first three months. That means that the picture that I linked doesn't even show the whole first trimester because it is missing a month of development.

Personally I think abortion should be legal, and you can go read my previous posts in this thread if you want confirmation of that. However, if we are going to have a thread on it people should know what exactly the laws allow us to do.

Another thing that is crucial to the abortion debate in my opinion, which nobody brought up, is consciousness. I believe that the point of development of consciousness or "experience/memories/learning" should factor into the abortion debate somehow. In my personal opinion, I think drawing the line at first trimester abortions is pretty damn arbitrary and should be subject to scrutiny or based on some sort of scientific principle data that supports the idea that a first trimester abortion is different or better than a second or third trimester abortion. Right now I'm not really too convinced that the two states are that different other than 'survivability' of the infant, but that doesn't really settle any moral debates.

By the way if anyone is pissed off at me for "not picking sides" you can eat dirt for all I care. The stratification of people into different 'opinion camps' is one of the biggest killers of intellectual discussion today. I'm not consistently pro or anti abortion because I think both sides make good points. If you can't see the point that the other side is making, you are being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

As for 'where they will go'... probably the same 'place' as the rest of us. We are all infants in a way, and the time we experience in this world is a minuscule slice of total reality. I'm not sure being born would really things that much.

You can put your intellectual nose way up ,and sneer at belief, but people dont say abortion is wrong for fun.

They say it because they know they want to live....we all want to bloody live,that is the crux.
Saying a feutese is unconcious or concious ignores the stark obvious.

With the logic of cold blood one could say those killed in their sleep are not murder victims because they are unconcious?

You want to live?
I want to live.
So who told you the womb dwellers want to die? God? or your intellectual superiority?