Jesus get's props from the Whitehouse! Amen?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Why do we care about what the presidents believe?

Why do we care about fundies getting upset over something?

Heck, I don't care if the president worship the Devil.

Oh wait.....

I dunno, great question...

Have you seen the history of the Jewish folks when their leader was connected to God?

You mean when they stone people to death?

DA, have you seen? www.tonycampolo.org...

No. It froze up my firefox browser. It's mostly like isn't closed captioned anyway.

reply to post by OldThinker

where you from?

I'm from KY in the U.S. of A. The land of freedom.

reply to post by Deaf Alien



thx for checkin...


I'll find a better link ok?

OT

ps: its worth it...

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by OldThinker

 

where you from?

I'm from KY in the U.S. of A. The land of freedom.

sweet!!!!

I had 15 days training in 2000 in lean problem-solving....


buuuuuuu-ti-ful country!!

OT

google

Tony Campolo, sermons, it's friday, but sundays coming, streaming....you should find it...


in the mean time see youtube here... www.youtube.com...


its only 10 mins....

reply to post by OldThinker


Well I see him talking but I don't know what's he saying.

Sorry

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well I see him talking but I don't know what's he saying.

Sorry

Thx for the U2U!!!

Sleep welll!!!!!

Check it out tomorrow....

OT sleepy too

Originally posted by spellbound
I don't think that Jesus gets props from the WH - if anything, the WH gets.

Think the WH is getin' props?



OT

Originally posted by OldThinker
Where's Blubblub when we need him?
OT

He is watching from the sidelines my friend.

Still in shock at how random and disjointed your responses are

What was it you wanted...?

its called spiritual warfare...

there is a devil..

and he's a smart guy...

So you're accusing anyone who doesn't believe in your particular deity of believing/working for another christian belief?

The devil is a christian thing. "He" seems only to be a big concern for those who follow biblical teachings. By nature, all "devil worshippers" are therefore christians of a sort! They'd have to be to believe in the devil in the first place to worship him.

I don't subscribe to "his" existence, so I couldn't be waging warfare in his name.

Trying to get past the various arguments in both directions, I'm starting to get a picture of:

We should make all our laws based on biblical teachings, so long as they are from the particular printing that you like. There are plenty of sects within the christian movement, and they don't all agree. Your version of christianity is better than everybody else's. Your version of religion is the only one that you believe is true. Your invisible man in the sky is better than everybody else's invisible man in the sky. Your book is better than everybody else's. The law should be changed to make sure that what you believe becomes the benchmark for everyone.

Or.....we could agree that every religion has some validity, and that they all have some good things to teach everyone, and we should all be open minded, but we should make our laws based on logic, and civic responsibility rather that on what some Jewish guy said 2000 years ago, or on what some Indian guy said 1400 years ago, or on what some Arab guy said 1500 years ago.

The bible is a nice bunch of stories, and it gives some nice ideas on being nice to each other. It's not the basis of all truth, despite any truths it may infer. If you believe in it wholeheartedly, then that's fabulous for you.
I don't, so I really feel quite strongly that it shouldn't interfere with my life. Using this book to interfere with the law is a ridiculous idea.

How many of the ten commandments are actually laws?
Not many. Two, or three depending where you live.

Morally, they are all relatively sound. However, that they are not laws shows that principles from 2000 years ago are not always going to carry validity in the modern world. Same with these declaration signers cited, they could not foresee the modern world (one without slaves, for example) and a lot has changed since then - mostly for the better.

reply to post by Badgered1


B, Thank you for a measured response…my desire to have have dialog, not argueing…I appreciate your tone, although couldn’t disagree more. I don’t think you have really thought through the implications, or more appropriately the ramifications of your disbelief.

Your NULL HYPOTHESIS is there is NO effect for Good by a God and no effect for Bad by a Devil. To me, as a statistician, I wonder about your education, background and negative experiences that would lead you to this erroneous conclusion? Are you really denying EVIL? And its source? There is more statistical and empirical evidence for evil than just about anything…watch the nightly news, read history…evil is everywhere? How’d it get here?

What about evolution? Does survival and adaptation of the fittest contribute to GOOD? Did Darwin have some guidelines for society to live by? Of course not…

You also mentioned the 10 commandments …..

DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the Building which houses the U S Supreme Court
You can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is
facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view .
It is Moses and he Is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the Two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments
Engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW?
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court
Judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?
There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in
Washington, D. C.

DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as 'The Father of Our Constitution' made the
Following statement: 'We have staked the whole of all our political
Institutions upon the capacity of mankind for Self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to
The Ten Commandments of God.'

DID YOU KNOW?
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: 'It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on
Religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.'


DID YOU KNOW?
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid
By the taxpayer since 1777.


DID YOU KNOW?
Fifty-two of the fifty-five founders of the Constitution were members of the established
Orthodox churches in the colonies.


DID YOU KNOW?
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting
the law would begin making law an oligarchy? The rule of few over many.


DID YOU KNOW?
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said:
'Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers.'
How then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this
Country is now suddenly wrong and Unconstitutional?

Lets put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was
Built on.

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand Why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or 'In God We Trust' on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance.link: www.abovetopsecret.com...

What about God being a source for Good? A world with out Jesus?” How would slaves fair? Not Good! Yes, it’s true we Christians allowed slavery in the American past. This was an erroneous belief. Please see (Exodus 21:16 and 1 Timothy 1:10) for the biblical condemnation of slavery. Christianity lifted the roles of those oppressed, by accepting women and slaves as full members. Historians credit the British evangelical William Wilberforce as the catalyst for ending of the international slave trade (which happened before to the Civil War). Did you know that 2/3’s of the members of the American abolition in 1835 were Christians.

How would women fair? Not Good! For many ancient cultures a wife was property of the spouse. Even Aristotle said a women was somewhere between a man and a slave. Read Reasons for God by Tim Keller…"It was extremely common in the Greco-Roman world to throw out new female infants to die from exposure, because of the low status of women in society. The church forbade its members to do so. Greco-Roman society saw no value in an unmarried woman, and therefore it was illegal for a widow to go more than two years without remarrying. But Christianity was the first religion to not force widows to marry. They were supported financially and honored within the community so that they were not under great pressure to remarry if they didn't want to. Pagan widows lost all control of their husband's estate when they remarried but the church allowed widows to maintain their husband's estate. Finally, Christians did not believe in cohabitiation. If a Christian man wanted to live with a woman he had to marry her, and this gave women far greater security. Also, the pagan double standard of allowing married men to have extramarital sex and mistresses was forbidden. In all these ways Christian women enjoyed far greater security and equality than did women in the surrounding culture. Also in India, widows were voluntarily or involuntarily burned on their husbands' funeral pyres. The gospel spreaders/missionaries saw to it this practice stopped.

What about the Gladiator competition? It may still be going on…Telemachus, an early Christian is recognized as the one who stopped this barbaric practice. What about cannibalism? Yep, alive and well is some countries…before Christian Missionaries, helped primitives grow up.

Would there be true compassion and mercy? Probably not! Jesus’ ministry gave an elevated position to the lowly. Notice the Good Samarian… it’s still a part of a vocabulary . While there are good charitable efforts outside of the name of Jesus, Christain charities stand out. Mother Theresa, the Salvation Army, religious hospitals, and church supported soup kitchens/thrift shops, etc. Saint Nick, too, was a saint.

How would Children fair? Not Good! Back in the day infanticide was not only legal, it was applauded. In Roman culture the killing one's own children could be an act of beauty. It was the early Christian church that ultimately brought an end to infanticide. The modern pro-life movement is largely Christian. This pro-life view has been true from the very beginning of Christianity. An early Christian document, the Didache, contained instructions against abortion.

What about Education? Would be way behind! Remember Judeo/Christian tradition certainly put an emphasis on the written word. The phenomenon of education for the masses has its roots in the Protestant Reformation. Please do a little research here.

Many of the fine Ivy League Schools used to be Bible Colleges…to promote Bible literacy, Christians have been leaders in education. With the advent of the printing press at about the same time as the Protestant Reformation…many of the world's languages were first set to writing by Christian missionaries in order for people to read the Bible.

To require education for the masses in America was first passed by the Puritans. "THE OLD DELUDER SATAN ACT." was a reference to the devil, who Christians believe gets his foothold into people's lives because of their ignorance of Scripture.

Remember before Madelyn Marie O’hare, children's reading texts emphasized biblical literacy. This was so prevalent in colonial America, that John Quincy Adams said in the early 1800's that the illiteracy rate was only 4/10th of 1 percent. By comparison, it has been estimated that in America today, 40 million people are functionally illiterate.

Most of the first 123 colleges in America were Christian institutions. Harvard, for example, was founded on this statement: “Let every student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life.” Who wouldathoughtit?

What about the arts? Non-existent! The Christian faith has influenced literature in such Christian writers such as Dante, Chaucer, Donne, Dostoevsky, Shakespeare, Dickens, Milton, etc. Music? No! There may never have developed the cantata, the concerto, or the symphony. Handel, Vivaldi, and Bach were Christians who worked to honor God with their work. Bach, signed all his work "Solely to the glory of God". Architecture? Boring! No glorious….cathedral!

What about freedom? Government of the People? Nope! For one, America's first constitution was the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut. Remember the Puritan framers of this document required that each aspect of it be grounded in Scripture…we used to be taught that in public school history! Also 50 of the 55 signers of the U.S. Constitution were Christians. Also, the truth of the sin nature played a role in the concept of our Constitutional checks and balances system. Also the 10 commandments Helped form the idea of The Rule of Law rather than the authority of man…this traces back to the Old Testament, and the Ten Commandments. And what about the idea that all men are created equal as enshrined in the Declaration of Independence? This is certainly a biblical doctrine. Also, the sovereign authority of God (in the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, all 50 state constitutions, our currency, etc.)--rather than the sovereignty of the state--is certainly biblical. Also, The Declaration of Independence—speaks of, self-evident truths and unalienable rights from the Creator. Remember John Adams emphasized 2 Corinthians 3:17 as the basis for American civil liberty. The slogan on the Liberty Bell is "Proclaim Liberty throughout the land unto all the Inhabitants Thereof" is from Leviticus 15:10.

Free Enterprise and the "Protestant work ethic?” Nope! We have two chooses…biblical capitalism and evolutionary capitalism. The emphasis on biblical capitalism is servanthood--a Jesus teaching, right?. Evolutionary capitalism relies solely on survival of the fittest. Communism, too is an atheistic system that relies on the non-biblical notion that all men are good…thus we have ‘the common good’ ???

B, this is a lot…looking forward to your response…

Originally posted by blupblup


What was it you wanted...?

bury the hatchet brother...

OT

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well I see him talking but I don't know what's he saying.

Sorry

It was secular entertainment show on Canada TV...THE HOUR, I think...

How are you today?

OT

Originally posted by Badgered1


How many of the ten commandments are actually laws?
Not many. Two, or three depending where you live.

This required repeating....

DID YOU KNOW?
James Madison, the fourth president, known as 'The Father of Our Constitution' made the following statement: 'We have staked the whole of all our political Institutions upon the capacity of mankind for Self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.'


You see this was taught when I was younger, not for the last 35 yrs....it is no wonder our society FORGETS...its a bad thing tho...

OT

reply to post by Badgered1


What about Chritians influence on SCIENCE?

See prior thread here...www.abovetopsecret.com...

“Did you know (many) Scientists are afraid of the Bible?”


OK, now how many years ago did the prophet Isaiah live?

What about when the Psalms were written?

Was it after ‘Science’ discovered…that the earth was round? I don’t think so..?

Was it after ‘Science’ discovered…that the universe is expanding?

I don’t know…maybe…possibly…Isaiah could have had access to MyFly’s Dilourion (sp?) and jumped ahead in time…probably saw John Titor, had lunch, Italian, I think…and then secretly peeked at the Journal of Modern Science…took some notes…went back to Biblical times, wrote it down and was promoted to Old Testament Author?????

Skeptic, certainly this is mathematically possible….with enough TIME and CHANCE, right?

Well, let’s see what he wrote, ok?

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. - Isaiah 40:22

He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind. - Psalms 104:2-3

This is what God the Lord says — he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it. - Isaiah 42:5

The Lord speaking:
"It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts." - Isaiah 45:12

WoW! He knew the earth was round and the universe is expanding! Gee wise!

Certainly JOB had access to a telescope…He must have…right….because he claimed…that the Earth is suspended in emptiness, or space, which Job describes as "nothing." Chapter 26:7 says, "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." NEXT>>>

What about THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE? OT, what does that mean? I don’t know…I’m thirsty, got to get a drink of water…I’ll be right back??? Water, huh? That’s it! en.wikipedia.org...

It’s all in the GOOD BOOK, folks!!! Who would a thunk it? Even the sphericity stuff too! Whew, this is a neat book!

"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind." - Job 36:27-28 "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." - Job 26:8

The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. - Ecclesiastes 1:6-7

“Hey did you know Moses went to Oxford? Really, must have…he knew that the future fossil record prove plants were around before animals…”

“Really! That’s amazing OT!”

“ Ah, not me…I read it somewhere…"Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. - Genesis 1:11

And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." - Genesis 1:20 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. - Genesis 1:24 NEXT>>>>>

“OT, I thought the Bible was disproved by science?” “Yeah, I’ve heard that myth a few times, did you know the Bible agrees with science…it too says…that the first life appeared in the water…just like science………………….And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures..." - Genesis 1:20

part two coming...

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by blupblup

What was it you wanted...?

bury the hatchet brother...
OT

Certainly...

It's buried


Peace

reply to post by Badgered1



here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here’s some more scientific factoids to ponder…

On the clearest night possible…with the naked eye…go out…better yet go atop the highest mountain near you…on the clearest night…and count…count the stars…I bet you can count a lot…but not an infinite amount…you will come up with a number, for sure…

Yet…the Bible spoke a scientific fact…may many years before we had telescopes…that the number of stars is endless…or at least a whole bunch more than we can count readily…correct? Another one of those old ‘scientists’ named Jeremiah said…"I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'"

Also Charlton Heston, I mean MOSES said of the LORD to Abraham…"I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,"

My man, Jacob "But you have said, 'I will surely make you prosper and will make your descendants like the sand of the sea, which cannot be counted.'" in Genesis 32… also in Gen 15…”He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

Data-minded folks…OT loves you…is some of this Truth…sinking in?

Also what about the old dudes speaking of "valleys" existing beneath the sea? Thousands and thousands of years ago?? How could they have known of this…satellites maybe? Probably not too probable, huh?
See…”The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. - 2 Samuel 22:16 Oh, I see they were seismic experts?

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by blupblup

What was it you wanted...?

bury the hatchet brother...
OT

Certainly...

It's buried

Peace

Sweet...


I'm glad...

mods too

OT

reply to post by blupblup



I'm headed out to the local...

And playin GOLDEN TEE Golf? u ever played? its addictin!!!!


Will have my treo...so my responses will be a bit scattered, short, if needed...

OT counts you as a friend!



OT