reply to post by OldThinker
JC was teaching the disciples...in 31-ish AD about the power of prayer for them....THEM!
Clearly not OT Jesus says "Anyone"---
moo...I am baffled that you reject JC, because people that follow the teachings of him (as u interpret) don't get what they WANT????
I reject the jesusyahweh god for a variety of reasons OT, not because people don't get what they want.
I don't interpret anything, xtianity makes claim that the creator of all that there is came to earth with a message. It is claimed that this message
was written in the bibles.
Should I out of curiosity take this claim at face value and read what this god has to say allegedly to me, I find the aforementioned promises.
However you OT claim that although the creator of the universe clearly says "Anyone" he doesn't actually mean anyone and one should not take what
this god says at face value, although you also claim that there are some things that gos said that should be taken at face value.
In order to do this we should seek the interpretation of other men (such as yourself), who for some reason believe without any evidence to prove their
case have greater understanding of the words of the creator of the universe.
We've discussed correct interpretation...and application of scriptures in the past...thought I'd give you some principles to marinate on...
We've discussed nothing, you claim that you and the men that you agree with have greater understanding of what god said to all.
Clearly if a god has a message for all to hear and understand then that message would get through and not require "middle men" to put their spin on
things.
If your claim is true, that gods message requires interpreters then clearly the message was not for all, but for a minority who believe they have
authority to claim what they believe is true.
2. Look up the actual meaning of each word in the original languages.
3. Note the verb tenses, the cases, and other grammatical determinants.
4. Learn the cultural setting of the passage.
5. Determine what the original readers understood it to mean.
6. Check out cross-references to see how the words are used in other contexts.
7. See how the first mention of the word or topic is presented in the Bible.
8. Confirm an interpretation with two or three similar passages.
So why go to all this trouble dude ? if jesusyahwhe was only speaking to a few illiterate jews in 31 ish ad ? The message was clearly not for
"anyone" after after all.
If this was the case OT, that jesusgods promises on "whatever you ask for" (not want) was only for the apostles then no one else would have been
privy to these instructions no one else would have heard them !
What purpose exactly do these verses serve if they were only for the ears of the apostles ? Who let the big secret out OT ?
Again OT you have not addressed the question in relation to the purpose of the apostles, which was specifically to teach other people what jesus had
to say,for some reason an omniscient god was unable to do it himself.
If you counter this by claiming that he did get the message out via the bibles then obviously he forgot to mention that later generations would
require interpreters, such as yourself to explain what was said.
This being the case, we are either reliant on our own interpretation of previous interpretations of the bibles texts and make what we will of what we
read.
Or we can listen to the opinion of someone else who claims to have authority of understanding as what a god said.
So join a church and let some pastor or bishop tell you what some theologian told him what the bibles actually mean.
Now that is pretty lazy Bro.
then AND ONLY then interpret.....what you call FACE VALUE is lazy bro...
Many different editions of the bible claim they are more "up to date" interpretations of scriptures by unknown authors.
Are you OT claiming that all these bibles in circulation, require some sort of professor to hold the hand of the reader and explain what " he who
hath not sinned should cast the first stone" actually means?
Are you claiming that the word "anyone" was not used by yahwejesus when he spoke to the apostles (as you claim) and would receive "anything" they
asked of him, as "anyone" is completely out of context when speaking privately to a dozen.
Perhaps in this instance "anyone" should be "anyone of you here " but surely that would mean that every bible containing the word "anyone" is in
error and not the word of god ?
7. See how the first mention of the word or topic is presented in the Bible.
So which bible would that be OT, do you mean to say that in your lifetime you've sat down and read every single different version of the bibles?
Which one of these bible do you accept has the correct interpretatopn of what the jesus god said ?
Or do you have a copy of the very first bible ever produced, if so where did you get it, Nicea ? Who translated it for you ? How do you know he
translated it correctly ? Are there Unicorns in your bible OT ?
Do you know what the difference is between you and I OT ?
I get a wardrobe from IKEA and put it together by looking at all the parts It's a knack some people have), if it doesn't fit properly then I read
the instructions thinking I did something wrong.
If having read the instructions and followed them, I find the wardrobe still doesn't work properly I simply take it back because the instructions
are incorrect. I then go somewhere else and buy one with clear instructions and stick it together job done.
You however OT appear to be the type who will buy the same wardrobe and spend the next month analyzing the instruction manual. You'll then put the
wardrobe together and find it doesn't work, you take it apart and re read the instructions and put it together again. It still doesn't work so you
ask someone who happens to work in wal mart furniture to help you.
He follows the instructions and also ends up with a wardrobe that does not work but you both agree that the wardrobe looks fine, as your friend
doesn't want to look foolish and you don't want to dis your friend.
You then spend the next five years putting your clothes in a wardrobe that doesn't work properly and studying carpentry books trying to find out
where you went wrong.
Dude, a good carpenter doesn't hide the chisel from the apprentice, unless he fears the apprentice becoming a greater craftsman than he.
: 
MCoG 
the intention was for me to just get it out of my
system and to brighten someones day if they read it. In it you will find youtube video's to my other favourite hymns (bottom of the post), i wish
there was one for the one i posted above but unfortunately not as i said. 
:- 
