Jesus get's props from the Whitehouse! Amen?

I think this is super cool

Prayer/Positive Thinking etc. is all very nice and that, but as stated so many times before it should have absolutely nothing to do with decision making in a country.

We just had eight years of a president who claimed 'god' talked to him.
Very devout man. Tortures people, but very devout.

Citing the words of historical figures and the original constitution is very nice too. Good for them that they were men of faith. However, they didn't really say a lot about, say, slavery did they? Nope. Amendments were made to the constitution based on progress. The separation of church and state is another example of progress.

Move forward.

Also, Jesus does not have the exclusivity on prayer.

People of faith criticizing politicians for lack of faith based emphasis is the same as coal miners criticizing the NFL for it's lack of plays involving lanterns. It makes no sense. Faith based initiatives are simply irrelevant.

The original post seemed to be thumbing its nose at those who are not god botherers in a "neener neener the Whitehouse mentioned prayer." Whatever.
They've mentioned the atom bomb too in the past, so glad they don't use them anymore.

Move on. Feel good about whatever faith you have. If you must, you may feel bad for me for not sharing it. Just don't try to interfere with the politics of the land because you have an awfully strong feeling that something might be real without any logic or evidence.

These posts can be very divisive, it is true.

I really don't understand the intent of the OP unless it was re-validate the posters 'feelings.' Can we have a section of ATS for that? Where people of faith can exchange what made them feel good today about their life choices?

Again, for those who feel that faith based law is best for us all, let's implement the Sharia for a while and see how that works.
No? Isn't that faith just as valid as yours? No? Why not? Surely there are millions who believe it is.



Sorry for the rant, people.

Why should we care what our president believes in? Our government is a secular institution, or should be. As long as the president does his or her job, then we have nothing to worry about.

To answer your question, no, "skeptics" are not upset. We still have freedom.

Wait, maybe some skeptics are upset.... because of this nonsense thread.

reply to post by Badgered1


Good post.

I really don't understand the intent of the OP unless it was re-validate the posters 'feelings.' Can we have a section of ATS for that? Where people of faith can exchange what made them feel good today about their life choices?

Yes, we have BTS for that.

I don't understand the intent either. Maybe it's to rise up emotions in some ATS members. As blupblup said, OP is probably being divisive.

Again, for those who feel that faith based law is best for us all, let's implement the Sharia for a while and see how that works. No? Isn't that faith just as valid as yours? No? Why not? Surely there are millions who believe it is.

Exactly. Faiths in various deities and beliefs are just as valid as Christian's faith. What makes it different? Because Islam is more violent? We all know how violent Christianity can be.

Let's leave faith and religion out of government. Allowing religion in government is a stepping stone to theocracy.

I know wiki is not the definition of 'accurate' but these numbers serve the purpose very well (even though these were "according to the CIA" and add up to 100.10% This must be "government math").

USA 2008
* Christian: (78.5%)
o Protestant (51.3%)
o Roman Catholic (23.9%)
o Mormon (1.7%)
o other Christian (1.6%)
* unaffiliated (12.1%)
* none (4%)
* other or unspecified (2.5%)
* Jewish (1.7%)
* Buddhist (0.7%)
* Muslim (0.6%)

So calling on the nation to pray could not, but any stretch of the imagination, mean to pray to any particular deity or reported son thereof. Or are we ignoring those that don't fit into any one particular faith (I won't get into how "Christianity" is so very sectarian. The "protestant" section above could take a few pages of subsections)?
Perhaps they don't exist/matter.
Well, so long as the evangelicals get their legislation passed for the betterment of us all....

If Obama says, "pray," he doesn't mean "Accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour." There's a difference.
He's saying, "Let's all think positive..."

"oooh, ooooh, oooooh, looky. He said "Jesus"!" is, frankly, a waste of time.

See my point?

reply to post by OldThinker

My hope is maybe he will do that in the future....as a Christian I am thankful for the proclamation itself....it is a nice endorsement to the power of prayer...

Where exactly is the endorsement of the power of prayer ?

Where is the evidence to back up the endorsement ?

As there has never been testable proof of the power of prayer, then any endorser is reliant on supernatural wishful thinking.


Her's the thing OT, the claim is that the leader of (questionably) the most powerful nation on earth believes that prayer works. Being an xtian(allegedly) this is defined by the deity that is prayed to, namely the jesusgod by promises such as ---

Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Now this is a very simple instruction from god himself and would assume that every living xtian is fully conversant with this promise. After all it's totally unambiguous and easy to follow no ifs or buts or special ceremonies or requirements.


Yet , incredibly the leader of the most powerful (and most religious) nation on earth sends armies around the world slaughtering innocent people.

Now either he doe not believe what the jesusgod has told him or the jesugod lied or he is deluded if he "endorces" the power of prayer.

Before you reply with "what jesus meant" or jesus has "funny ways of answering prayers" excuses, lets just remember what he "GOD" promised --

Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

When (as no doubt you will) make excuses for jesusgod not keeping this promise, then perhaps you can respond to the "god answer's prayers in the yes, no, later" problem. Which I note you did not respond to in my previous post.


Remember how that went ? Basically if as is claimed by xtians, god answers prayers with yes and it is done and no, where it doesn't get done or later where it still doesn't get done.

Exactly the same response can be got from praying to my TV, nevertheless the answer no to a prayer completely contradicts gods' promise which was,

Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

See, he didn't say maybe did he ? Neither did he say in certain conditions or if I'm in a good mood or if it doesn't give you a rash.

He said "WHATSOEVER" !

Either he lied or xtians have no faith, "whatsoever".

I don't think that Jesus gets props from the WH - if anything, the WH gets props from Jesus.

This post is based on a false premise.

reply to post by lellomackin

It's like he's talking to himself. Oh, wait... I've found if you read his posts in a Yoda voice it makes more sense. Well not more sense, but it's palatable.

oh, just great - now that's all I can hear

thanks

:-)

reply to post by blupblup


gives blupblup star for this does Spira

We need to show these folks that we are not going to be divided.

I have religious people, atheists, agnostics and who know what other kind of people on my friends list.

This wasn't even about religion for me.... It was about a trouble maker trying to divide as usual, and cause hatred and ill-feeling between people.

I don't understand why someone who claims to be concerned about spreading the good word thinks it can be done without using any good words

it makes me wonder if they're being sincere

[edit on 5/9/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Originally posted by blupblup


It was about a trouble maker trying to divide as usual, and cause hatred and ill-feeling between people.

Your fight is not with me....

"The person who isn't with me is against me, and the person who isn't gathering with me is scattering. JESUS. Matthew 12:30

Above my pay grade....

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


I don't understand why someone who claims to be concerned about spreading the good word thinks it can be done without using any good words

it makes me wonder if they're being sincere

[edit on 5/9/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Oh I'm sincere....what are your thoughts on the WORDS?

Romans 1:20 (New International Version)

Romans 1:20 (New International Version)
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

....without excuse....

Originally posted by spellbound
I don't think that Jesus gets props from the WH - if anything, the WH gets props from Jesus......

spellbound...

you are correct!

OT

thanks for the reminder!

Originally posted by moocowman


He said "WHATSOEVER" !

Either he lied or xtians have no faith, "whatsoever".

A TEXT without CONTEXT is a PRETEXT.....

Hermaneutics, moo!!!!!


see... www.gbgm-umc.org...

Some may say, ¡°Isn¡¯t it Jesus who encouraged us to ask for whatever we want?¡± Yes, there are many sayings of Jesus urging us to ask for what we want in the Gospels. Let me read some of them for you.

Therefore I tell you,
whatever you ask for in prayer,
believe that you have received it,
and it will be yours (Mark 11:24).

If you remain in me and my words remain in you,
ask whatever you wish,
and it will be given you (John 15:7)

And I will do whatever you ask in my name,
so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it (John 14:13-14).

When we hear these sayings superficially, they sound like they are encouraging us to ask for anything that we want or wish. They sound as if, as long as we firmly believe, we are going to have whatever we want through prayer.

We should be careful here. It is wrong to take these sayings at their face value.

reply to post by moocowman



more here moo....


Any thinking Christians knows God runs things not us...

see.. books.google.com...:24+means+we+get+what+we+ask&source=bl&ots=zWw4ZVaiYG&sig=j7oZZiRyH0-z AJN_20gNFvxHPsc&hl=en&ei=rTIHStjGO42SMqb8jaMD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

OT

Originally posted by Badgered1
Prayer/Positive Thinking etc. is all very nice and that, but as stated so many times before it should have absolutely nothing to do with decision making in a country.

Nothing?

What history books are you reading...or more appropriate DENYING?????


link.... www.wakeupamericainc.org...

John Adams (1735-1826) Second President of the United States
"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity." (11)

"It is the duty of the clergy to accommodate their discourses to the times, to preach against such sins as are most prevalent, and recommend such virtues as are most wanted." (12)

John Quincy Adams (1767-1848) Sixth President of the United States
"Posterity (to all future generations) you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." (13)

"...so great is my veneration for the Bible, and so strong my belief,...that the earlier my children begin to read it, the more steadily they pursue the practice of reading it throughout their lives, the more lively and confident will be my hopes that they will prove useful citizens to their country, respectable members of society, and a real blessing to their parents." (14)

Samuel Adams (1722-1803) "Father of the American Revolution"
"He who is void of virtuous attachment in private life is, or very soon will be, void of all regard for his country." (15)

"Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual - - or at least that he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country." (16)

"The rights of the colonist as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of The Great Lawgiver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (17)

Originally posted by Badgered1
Prayer/Positive Thinking etc. is all very nice and that, but as stated so many times before it should have absolutely nothing to do with decision making in a country.

more...


I could go on and on...but ATS needs the bandwidth....

Elias Boudinot (1740-1821) President of the Continental Congress
"You have been instructed form your childhood in the knowledge of your lost state by nature; the absolute necessity of a change of heart, and an entire renovation of soul to the image of Jesus Christ; of salvation thro' His meritorious righteousness only; and the indispensable necessity of personal holiness without which no man shall see the Lord." (18)

Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933) Thirtieth President of the United States
"The foundation of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country." (19)

Colonel David Crockett (1786-1836) Frontiersman & Congressman
"I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member on this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money." (20)

Dwight David Eisenhower (1890-1969) Thirty-Fourth President of the United States
"The spirit of men is more important than physical strength, and the spiritual fiber of a nation than is wealth." (21)

Everett Hale (1822-1909) Teacher, Author & Minister
"I am only one, but I am one, I cannot do everything, but I can do something. What I can do, I should do and with the help of God, I will do." (22)

Harvard University (1642)
"Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life." (23)

Patrick Henry (1736-1799) American Revolutionary Leader
"This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will give them one which will make them rich indeed." (24)

James Iredell (1751-1799) Supreme Court Justice
"I think the Christian religion is a Divine institution; and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principle and practice." (25)

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third President of the United States
"...and the political adventurers, who have lost the chance of swindling and plunder in the waste of public money, will never cease to bawl on the breaking up of their sanctuary." (26)

"My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessing they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth have." (27)




source: www.wakeupamericainc.org...

reply to post by OldThinker


:-)

well, thank...goodness for the new, international version

the older version might as well have been in Hebrew - or Greek - or Latin - for all the good it did me

Oh I'm sincere....what are your thoughts on the WORDS?

my thoughts?

I have a question first:

....without excuse....

please explain...

reply to post by OldThinker


And I will do whatever you ask in my name,
so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it (John 14:13-14).

When we hear these sayings superficially, they sound like they are encouraging us to ask for anything that we want or wish.

Well er um, yes they do, the words are quite clear, the verse does not in any way say anything to the contrary.

Tell me OT, your claim is that jesus is a god and this god says -

You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it

He does not say IF or BUT he says "Anything" ! so why do you choose to accuse me of taking this out of context ?

Again, why do you choose not to believe what your god promises you,? it is not rocket science this verse it is quite simple , why do you choose to interpret it when it cannot be misinterpreted?

They sound as if, as long as we firmly believe, we are going to have whatever we want through prayer. We should be careful here. It is wrong to take these sayings at their face value.

Well yes, you are emphatically told you will get whatever you want as long as you believe, GOD SAYS SO ! NO IFS OR BUTS!

So it is wrong to take the sayings of god at face value ?????


So you are saying not to take this at face value ??? --

"Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor

There are no ifs or buts in the above verse either OT, are you saying this equally unambiguous verse, should also be interpreted according to the whims of the reader? EG

"I know it says I shouldn't desire my neighbors stuff , but it doesn't really mean that, it means something else but doesn't actually say what "


Tell me OT, how is it possible that, GOD has given you a message and kept it quite simple so you could not fail to understand. But because you don't believe what god ( you have not faith the size of a mustard seed) has said you choose to pretend he didn't rally say it ??????


Again you avoid the question in relation to the prayers being answered in the "Yes / No/ Later" format.

Again you deflect the issue by supplying some website link which is somehow, supposed to have some authoritative solution because you seem unable to deal with.


Constantly avoiding issues OT totally discredits your position, you and many other xtians really need to understand that when your asked something by posters like myself. Running off somewhere else to find an answer because you haven't one makes you look foolish, especially when you go around claiming you are right.


Clearly OT you choose not to believe what jesus promised or don't belive he'll do it, because you choose to accept someone elses interpretation of this verse ----

Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

"DAD?"

"YES SON?"


"CAN WE GO TO THE TOY STORE?"

"YES SON"

"WHAT CAN I HAVE"

"ANYTHING YOU WANT SON"

"ANYTHING, DAD? "

"ANYTHING SON"


When the child come back from the toyshop empty handed, did he misinterpret his fathers words ? Or did his father Lie ?










[edit on 10-5-2009 by moocowman]

reply to post by moocowman


again jesus christ is not santa claus....why ru hyper focused on one verse...

u would never apply such lack of discipline to your job or any research for that matter

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


glad u got a kick out it...

crystal clear to ot...

why ask me...