FARK poking fun at ATS UFO community

I think what some members of the FARK community are doing is great.

Have you read some of the posts around here?

Whilst I agree that there are some smart people who post here (all sorts of electronic engineers, photo auditors, sound techs, social commentators etc.) the vast majority are enthusiastic, short sighted and dare I say 'ignorant'?

I love reading some of the theories that circulate through here and hit the Breaking News forum daily to catch up on important stories from around the world - but boy, oh boy, my heart goes out to the patient and determined sceptics who continually debunk and educate in a polite and well meaning fashion throughout the day.

The extraordinary thing is that whilst the majority of posters strive to believe before proof their motivation is matched, but not dissipated, by the minority who require proof before belief.

I just wish that the UFO believers mentality of 'prove it's fake' would disappear. Prove it's real seems like a better use of the communities time to me.

It's entertaining and education if nothing else.

-m0r

Originally posted by m0r1arty
I think what some members of the FARK community are doing is great.

Have you read some of the posts around here?

Whilst I agree that there are some smart people who post here (all sorts of electronic engineers, photo auditors, sound techs, social commentators etc.) the vast majority are enthusiastic, short sighted and dare I say 'ignorant'?

Don't you think the very same could be said for the members of FARK?
BTW a job does not define someone as being more intelligient or even more logical than another person.

The extraordinary thing is that whilst the majority of posters strive to believe before proof their motivation is matched, but not dissipated, by the minority who require proof before belief.

You are making assumptions based on those that are more outspoken. There are enormous numbers of ATS members that lurk more than post, and watch quietly from the sidelines 70% of the time. You do not see their input as much as the rest, but you cannot discount their existence just because you may not see it prominently.

I just wish that the UFO believers mentality of 'prove it's fake' would disappear. Prove it's real seems like a better use of the communities time to me.

Once again you are generalizing a large mass of people based on the few more vocal members that you see at the forefront. What you fail to recognize or realize is that there are some who come here because it is one of the few safe havens that exist for people who have had first hand experience and NEED NO PROOF. They know what they know because they have seen it with their own eyes. (believe it or not, these people are often among the most hard nosed skeptics here.) People who have never seen something unexplainable can never imagine how it feels to be someone who has and to feel so completely alone in that knowledge. You and your friends can continue to mock us Moriarty. I know who you are.

It's entertaining and education if nothing else.

-m0r

That could have been said about FARK once upon a time. (well at least the entertaining part)
Making a game and a joke out of creating HOAXES is one of the things that will get under any ATS researchers skin more than anything else.
We spend such a great deal of time researching and disproving people who find some sick sport in making a joke of a real phenomenon, to have you make this into a game to increase hits to a dying website, makes me and probably most of the other serious researchers sick.







[edit on 2-5-2009 by NephraTari]

reply to post by Republican08


That is actually the work of an ATS member who is a true CGI artist and never tried to pass off anything he has done as real. He is working on a feature film. I have great respect for him and I sincerely hope that fark member did not try to pass off his work as their own or they may be facing some serious charges.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
Incredible .
So you would`nt take a dump on your own doorstep , but you have no problem dropping your pants on your neighbours yard ?

Yes, for sure.

What makes the image experts so good? Practice! By looking at better quality fakes, the image experts refine their skills. Without a stream of fakes to consider, they wouldn't be as competent as they are now.

Deiberate hoaxes are useful (except on ATS, against the T&Cs), when they serve the purpose to sharpen the wits of investigators and image experts. Think of it like this, if an image can survive the expert scrutiny of all the debunkers and experts, then it has to be something good, possibly even real. Besides, an image alone will still never convince everyone. Images are evidence to be used in conjuction with eyewitness reports, not in isolation of them.

Would I ever fake an image or video if I could? Yes. But I would do so annonymously and NOT on ATS.

Would I ever make up a story about seeing a UFO that I didn't? No. If I ever state that I've seen a UFO or an alien when I'm posting as tezzajw on ATS, then you better believe it's true!

Do you only deny ignorance whilst you are on ATS ?

I deny ignorance when I choose to. Every day when I work my pointless job, I have to embrace ignorance, or get fired. I don't know how some people can live and work in their ignorant bubbles of happiness?

I don't see the problem with educating other people to deny ignorance, especially when considering potentially fake images.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by NephraTari
Don't you think the very same could be said for the members of FARK?
BTW a job does not define someone as being more intelligient or even more logical than another person.

I'm not a member of FARK and had only read some it today so I'm not sure of it's members or what I could say about them.

Whilst I agree that a job doesn't define someone as being more 'intelligient ' or logical the actions of those with skills (employed in that field or not) does help reason out many of the fallacies that belittle any rational argument for or against any presented evidence.

Originally posted by NephraTari
You are making assumptions based on those that are more outspoken. There are enormous numbers of ATS members that lurk more than post, and watch quietly from the sidelines 70% of the time. You do not see their input as much as the rest, but you cannot discount their existence just because you may not see it prominently.

True, I'm a lurker myself for the best part (check daily, post rarely). But content is provided by those who post and it's that content which I'm commenting upon.

Originally posted by NephraTari
Once again you are generalizing a large mass of people based on the few more vocal members that you see at the forefront. What you fail to recognize or realize is that there are some who come here because it is one of the few safe havens that exist for people who have had first hand experience and NEED NO PROOF. They know what they know because they have seen it with their own eyes. (believe it or not, these people are often among the most hard nosed skeptics here.) People who have never seen something unexplainable can never imagine how it feels to be someone who has and to feel so completely alone in that knowledge.

Hmm, 'NEED NO PROOF' under the motto of 'Deny Ignorance'...yeah I'm getting a cognitive dissonance vibe here. Again I only use content as my indicator here - not membership size or silent consensus.

Originally posted by NephraTari

You and your friends can continue to mock us Moriarty. I know who you are.

Firstly it's m0r1arty, and using Google to look up a person's user name ain't really any proof of who that user actually is. Furthermore you are the one who has been making the noise over assumptions, see cognitive dissonance (again).

Originally posted by NephraTari
Making a game and a joke out of creating HOAXES is one of the things that will get under any ATS researchers skin more than anything else.
We spend such a great deal of time researching and disproving people who find some sick sport in making a joke of a real phenomenon, to have you make this into a game to increase hits to a dying website, makes me and probably most of the other serious researchers sick.

Okay so mentally ill people fabricating realities and then forcing it down my throat is a good thing?

Listen I hate hoaxers as much as the next guy who values his time - but let's face it 'Deny Ignorance' means building up an immunity to crap. Hoaxers and those with Münchausen syndrome are what makes ATS such a special place. Those with reason will chip away until there is nothing left but the truth.

I don't want anyone's time wasted here - but since it happens all the time I'm going to laugh openly at those who think they're getting away with it because it's as childish as hell.

Dying website, serious researcher? You do realise that we've got more pages on this thread here than they have there. Plus this is always good for serious researchers.

-m0r

Originally posted by Helig

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
If they actually knew anything about the ATS community they would know this site contains the smartest people in the world and the best analyzers in the world as well.

Warnin: The following may very well be off topic and lead to some incendiary reactions

This is one of the primary reasons that I've taken issue with portions of ATS in the past, this notion that somehow ATS has a monopoly on intelligence on the internet. I can tell you right now that I have ran into people who's technological prowess far surpasses anything I have ever witnessed here, but do I claim the community they belong to is the smartest overall? Nope.

When the members of ATS give themselves over to this concept of superiority they only further inflate the community ego which despite what some may think is in fact not a good thing. I completely understand taking pride in something, but when one takes it to the point that I've seen it taken time and time again it creeps me out because it reeks of the same kind of righteous indignation we see radiating from the various political groups around the world who believe themselves to be the only answer to any question.

I'm not trying to derail this or start up some flame war but I can't just sit here and watch the flames of assumed superiority be fanned until they finally blow up and cause serious long-term issues.

Who said anything about ATS having a monopoly on anything? I said that ATS has some of the smartest people in the world on this site.

I did not say that we have more smart people thatn everyone else. So do not get me wrong. I said that ATS has some of the smartest people in the world tht I have ever seen.

In other threads I have also said that we have some of the most open minded people in the world and that the problem with that is that if you open your mind to far your brain will fall out. In other words I have seen on occasion a lack of common sense and logic in some threads or posts.

I do understand your point, I just do not want you to misunderstand mine.

I do not think ATS has a monoply on smartness I merely said that we have some of the smartest people in the world participating on our forums.

Thank you for your concern, and I want to emphasize that no offense was taken.

I am always open to hearing what every one has to say, even those who disagree!

peac and love!

See you all around the boards!

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
...
Who said anything about ATS having a monopoly on anything? I said that ATS has some of the smartest people in the world on this site.

I did not say that we have more smart people thatn everyone else. So do not get me wrong. I said that ATS has some of the smartest people in the world tht I have ever seen.

Your previous post.

If they actually knew anything about the ATS community they would know this site contains the smartest people in the world and the best analyzers in the world as well.

reply to post by m0r1arty



One of the problems with a site like FARK is that. it is inhabited by many, unreconstituted *clockwork universe* believers. many of whom, have an agenda that borders on the political to stifle any discussion and belittle anyone who suggests that the Universe is anything but totally and utterly predictable, if only we had the right tools to measure it.

Quantum science scares the crap out of these people and they'd really rather wish it would just go away as, in their minds, it is nothing more than an intellectual backwater and will never really bring about any tangible technology that might be of a practical use.

Ergo, a subject like UFOs is one that both annoys them and scares them in equal amounts. Partly because the professionals have so little clue and that if they were to admit that it might seriously question their true motives in the field of science.

There are 1000s of people alive to today, who call themselves "scientists", who have never done a days genuine research in their lives. They are, in actual fact, little more than over qualified lab assistants, with an attitude. They have no means of conceptualisation , so science to them ,is a psychologically" comfortable world" where they can deal in nothing but absolutes. The problem is that, contemporary science, at the cutting d edge, is about anything but absolutes and many within the field are actively resistant to science ever having a *conceptual* side.

It's really all about ego and people who, often, are marginal sufferers of syndromes such as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. You really think anyone who can be bothered to spend years simply collating test results isn't partly OC?

These people are valuable to science as a whole, but they rarely invent anything at all ,as that is not their particular mindset. However, because of the sheer number of these people in modern society they hold a sway over science that is totally out of proportion to their true knowledge, or for that matter, their abilities to grasp new concepts.


Professor Jim Al-Khalili calls these people the *shut up and measure it* side of science. That's not to say it's an open invitation for every crack pot to join in and contribute on an equal footing. However, consider this... 30 years ago i remember attending a lecture on the *Science of Star Trek*. The professor giving the lecture was totally and utterly dismissive of two of the main concepts of the show. Warp Drives and Teleportation. he scoffed , openly, at the ideas as even concepts saying that they had no basis in real science whatsoever... How things change, in such a relatively short time?


I am not trying to argue for some "free for all manifesto* or against *proper science*. What i am trying to point out is that. Many scientists are scientists, because they have control issues psychologically, and are predisposed as personalities towards a certain pattern of behaviour., UFO's threaten that very pattern so are judged and dismissed out of hand, not from true scientific perspective, but from a wholly personal gut reaction. The scientists then use their position as scientists to try and stifle any debate by deliberately cherry picking the more ridiculous claims and acting as if they are the core of the whole phenomenon.

It is an intellectual dishonesty born out of their own deep rooted psychological fears. perfectly understandable, but wholly ego centric in its' outlook and in the long term, it does science no favours whatsoever.


[edit on 2-5-2009 by FireMoon]

Somehow in the 4 pages of replies I guess the official position of ATS got lost.

We don't engage in board wars. We don't worry about what people are planning on other sites. Every forum on the internet has it's own character and it's own membership. Comparisons and that sort of thing don't really accomplish anything.

As I said before, if someone wants to sign up here they are welcome as long as they follow our T&Cs, that's really all there is to it. There is no reason for anyone on this forum - staff or members - to preoccupy themselves over whether someone is poking fun at them for their beliefs. I believe our members are happy discussing what interests them here. That's all that matters to us.

I really don't see anything constructive coming out of this thread.

reply to post by jdub297


Yeah but at the same time I often find that ATS is on top of a story months, sometimes years ahead of the MSM. What does that say? Not all of us are drinking the pool water. Some of us really know what science and debate is. And that is what ATS is really about.


These guys have a legitimate criticism of ATS. And to them I would reply:

When your video makes it to ATS 1 gullible individual will post it, and 30 will tear it apart before the thread dies.

I wonder if FARK is a disinfo agency, or aims to make disinformation acceptable.

People shouldn't be creating intentional fakes, period. It's just silly and wrong, and don't they care that there are legitimate cases out there, and that its well, just wrong to lie about some things?

I agree.

Disinformation might be the name of their game.

Now ask yourself, who is pulling their strings?

or

Are they that bored, that childish they can't come up with a better way to intertain themselves?

reply to post by Djarums
I have found that most of the posts on ATS are some of the more intellegent posts on the net.

ATS People for the most part are considerate, smart and at the same time discerning.

I've visited other Conspiracy Forums and have found the posters not near as informed or interesting as ATS.

ATS Rules.



[edit on 2-5-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by FireMoon

Quantum science scares the crap out of these people and they'd really rather wish it would just go away as, in their minds, it is nothing more than an intellectual backwater and will never really bring about any tangible technology that might be of a practical use.

Excellent post.

In my opinion, I have read some of FARKer posts and they just don't seem to be willing or able to try to "think outside of the box".

If we as a species really want to survive, we need to stay open to new possiblities, I'm not saying gullible, but open.

ATS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Both sites serve a different clientele with some overlap. Both sites have its overly serious members, its clowns, and its idiots... with some overlap. On any site, if you take offence at what someone on another site says... you take yourself too seriously.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

If we as a species really want to survive, we need to stay open to new possiblities, I'm not saying gullible, but open.

Open to new possiblities is one thing but I find the majority of UFO believers to the latter of your quoted statement. If this is not true, then prove me wrong. The reason hoaxes are so successful is because of the people that are willing to believe just about anything. As for the one poster claiming that ATS has the smartest people on the web, I highly doubt. Intelligent people do not discuss theories such as reptiles, alien abductions, NASA did not land on the moon, Nasa hides the footage of alien spacecraft and then in the same posts show us supposed NASA footage of UFO's and the terra papers. If all the evidence is weighed about most of these theories intelligent people would then come to the conclusion without solid proof they are only theories and not fact. Read most of the posts on here and people claim fact not theory.

I don't have time to read this whole thread, and this may have already been said, but any organization who's anagram is FARK can't be taken seriously!

Originally posted by da_beast_666
I love it

. I especially love the one pic the have.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/896aa85b797c.jpg[/atsimg]
This should be ATS's new motto.

What I don't understand is why someone like yourself, who spends every post attacking ATS or its members, chooses to be here?

You don't like it then no one is forcing you to sit here and type... unless that is what you are paid to do.

reply to post by fooffstarr

Paranoid much, who would pay me. Oh yeah the government. Live with the fact that not everyone on here is a sheep and follows the norm. You know the one, I'll buy what ya got no matter how ridiculous it may be. ATS is the box that believers live in and only think in, I myself and it seems to me, more and more others on here, think outside the box.

That's fine with me, all they are doing is creating more subject matter to use to compare the real stuff against.let the narrow minded sheeple have here fun its us who will be ready IF there is ever contact,They on the other hand will have a major crisis and it wont be pretty

this is how it's always been anyway,and since the digital age the line between fact and fiction has been blurred.

reply to post by FireMoon


Brilliant post, star from me sir. I do agree that many scientists are just paying their Nuremberg mortgage and perhaps unknowingly maintaining a status quo that suits the hegemonic 'elite' - the fact that patents stop babies from being vaccinated against preventable and curable terminal illnesses seems to me to be a backward step for science overall. And there is plenty more injustice to fight against - one of the reasons I love ATS is that it highlights news stories that would otherwise be ignored by major media companies.

But let us remove focus from the peons of the science community and look at some of the members of this community. A basic grounded knowledge of high school science would do the world of good around here. I'm not suggesting that prophetic web-bots, numerology, telepathic communication and the invisible hand aren't at play, it's just that things like this fall into the unprovable, unrepeatable, unquantifiable catalogue.

If people want to have a crack at tying theories in with the contemporary understandings of quantum physics then fine - fire away. But expect reasonable people to analyse what they've written. Some points for would be posters may be:

Try to make your finds understandable (not grammar or spelling perfect - but at least most of it legible), informative (again, not looking for vast mathematical formulae here, just something I've not seen many others think of before) and open to scrutiny (that means treating those who like your theory and those who don't equally).

I know you said it's not a level playing field, but if the handicapped want to play then putting in the minimum of effort goes a long way to our credibility overall as a community. We are a wide and varied membership - something I find fascinating, but all this tolerance of each other comes at a price - justifiable ridicule from smaller, less diverse pockets of other communities - Read up on Robert Putnam's recent works for more information regarding communities.

Some of the other recent posters have decent points:

Originally posted by projectvxn
When your video makes it to ATS 1 gullible individual will post it, and 30 will tear it apart before the thread dies.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
On any site, if you take offence at what someone on another site says... you take yourself too seriously.

Originally posted by da_beast_666
ATS is the box that believers live in and only think in, I myself and it seems to me, more and more others on here, think outside the box.

To summarise - If we are grouped together by membership then I want outsiders to know that I think there are genuine crackpots here too, and the overall work produced by everyone here is worth any ridicule we rightly take for having such varying characteristics of membership.

-m0r