Who needs proof when you've see a disc at 50 feet?

Hey mate.
Your story was quite nice to read. I envy you...

I keep my eyes on the sky as often as I can, hoping to just get a glance at something I can't associate with any earthly object or phenomenon.

Thank you for sharing it. Like it.

Regarding skeptics.
I don't mind them at all, or if they want proof before believing.
But here's the trick, If you get the proof, you will no longer need to believe, you will then KNOW.

You don't need proof to believe, so you could be a believer and still be skeptical.

However, this proof thing is a rather difficult thing as well.
Many debunkers and skeptics expresses that since our scientist have not found any SOLID proof at all, regarding extra-terrestrials, they you can't believe.
Well, know this then, that EVERY single thing that exists on this planet, EVERYTHING, that exists... are still based on rules, that from what we know, only applies to this world. So also the evidence.

Perhaps we have been getting full and solid evidence without even recognize it cause it simply just don't apply to this world.

Perhaps we have the evidence at hand right now, but our consciousness have not yet reached a level to embrace it.

What I want to say is, that we shouldn't rely so much into seeking evidence to everything.

Cheers

Starred the OP

No need not to believe you and your observation, especially considering you ended with the idea that it could actually be a man made craft from the military.

It's unfortunate thought that during the minutes it was 'hanging' around you were unable to photograph the event.

Thanks for the story though.

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Ion Wind?. Ok. Fair enough. Perhaps he isn't familiar with "Ion Wind" and didn't have that as an option to throw out there. I believe he saw something that defied gravity.

When you don't fall, you defy gravity. Being in defiance can easily be "anti". Just like being anti social. Anti socialism can be defined further, by the psychological breakdown of the individual being "anti social". If you aren't a psychologist, "anti social" works as a great description.

I understood his description just fine, per "anti grav", But I'm not "schooled" in "Ion wind". I've actually never heard of it. I'll be looking it up. If you have any links and what not that you could share, that would be cool.

Either way, still a cool story.

Originally posted by Akezzon

Regarding skeptics.
I don't mind them at all, or if they want proof before believing.
But here's the trick, If you get the proof, you will no longer need to believe, you will then KNOW.

You don't need proof to believe, so you could be a believer and still be skeptical.

It is not that it is wrong to believe or have faith that intelligent alien life exists it’s when it is viewed as a fact that it becomes an issue. How many here know for a fact that UFOs are advance alien life? Many people need very little empirical evidence to see it all as a fact, and skeptics just try to explain that it is not a fact at all.

So you are right you don't need proof to believe, but you do need proof to say it is a factual event. If people would just see this point there would never be issues with believers and skeptics.

Originally posted by kronos11
from what I witnessed: the craft exhibited A. Anti-Gravity propulsion and B. the movement at departure showed it was not bound to our laws of movement because any human would have been squished with the speed it took off and 3. Many eminent professors of physics have stated if we are able to tap into anti-gravity then we would be at the basic model of reciprocal energy.

Your sighting is very interesting but I think you are jumping to conclusions. You saw an object move silently through the air, float and then fly off at great speed. If this was actually an alien spacecraft, it's rather pointless to guess what kind of propulsion it used. We don't fully understand gravity itself, so I'd be rather skeptical of "anti-gravity"!

[edit on 29-4-2009 by DarkSide]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Well, I wouldn't say I, (don't know about others), do see it as a fact that everything is of an Alien origin.

However, the "fact" is that ALOT of things that have happen during past years, do points towards the fact that they MIGHT be of alien origin.

I choose to believe, it is more fun... =)

And you are right as well ofc.

To see a light in the sky as proof of something might not just cut it for all.
However, it can be proof enough to that particular observer.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by Akezzon]

reply to post by kronos11


S&F for this my friend~! There's a post that looks into your line of thought and I agree 100%! My standard answer to the UFO phenomena is...

"you will ALWAYS be a skeptic until you've had a personal experience" Because it's personal and you know what you experienced first hand.

Here's mine.

my encounter

To this day, we still don't know if what we are seeing is military or ET, however, I'd still like to know if we had anti-gravity back in 1977-78...

You answer that question and it open up HUGE amounts of questions.. even if it's yes we did . or no we did not.

Originally posted by Komodo
"You will ALWAYS be a skeptic until you've had a personal experience" Because it's personal and you know what you experienced first hand.

But having an experience shouldn't make you less skeptical of anything, unless you were skeptical that weird things happen sometimes. I don't know of any skeptic who says that weird things don't happen.

The problem comes with the interpretation of the experience. Depending on their background and beliefs, some people see a funny light in the sky and think it's angels. Other people think it's aliens. Or maybe they try to combine the two.

At the very foundation of it, though, it was a funny light in the sky. No more, no less. As a skeptic, no matter what I experience, I'll try as much as I can to step back and just recognize it for what it was, and try to factor out my own expectations and beliefs. I know there are hoaxes. I've seen magic shows. Seeing is not always believing.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by Nohup]

Originally posted by Akezzon


However, the "fact" is that ALOT of things that have happen during past years, do points towards the fact that they MIGHT be of alien origin.

I choose to believe, it is more fun... =)

I choose to believe we are alone in the universe and we are seeing our future selves.... BTW you can't put the words "might" and "fact" in the same sentance...

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Akezzon


However, the "fact" is that ALOT of things that have happen during past years, do points towards the fact that they MIGHT be of alien origin.

I choose to believe, it is more fun... =)

I choose to believe we are alone in the universe and we are seeing our future selves.... BTW you can't put the words "might" and "fact" in the same sentance...

Ofc you can, I just did.
Ok, let me rephrase it since we have to jump into spelling and grammar arguments now.

There are so much happening around the world, so it is a fact that we can no longer dismiss the possibility that there MIGHT actually be visitors from another world, planet, universe and/or dimension.

See, again...fact and might.

I like to see it this way.
If there would be no life "out there", then we would not exist either. Since we are also "out there". Our earth floats around in a cold deep space, and if live can evolve on one celestial body then why only on this planet?, since the number of tries and chances a celestial body would have to have life evolve would be infinite.

In an infinite space absolutely everything exists, because there would be an infinite number of possibilities.

I am not saying all this is a fact. But, this is how I choose to see it.

reply to post by mikellmikell


Never saw bigfoot before


Yes wurtsmith(sic?) has been closed for awhile. It's all industry now from what I understand. But Phelps-Collins Air National Guard is still alive and kicking. Some of the boarder of the base is along the thunder bay river. Fished it many times. It was always weird to see the guard towers along that stretch of the river/flood area

[edit on 29-4-2009 by IcanXplain]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by IcanXplain]

BAH!! I cant seem to edit my own posts without something going wrong. I will clarify here. My first edit was to add the word "now" .


My second edit was to ask someone to investigate Phelps-Collins Air National Guard base. I tried to google but there wasn't alot of information about said base. Mostly it was water purity tests. Makes sense as it is on a major Alpena waterway. But why is there so little information? This is one of the first reactionary bases if Canada ever attacked us. LOL I know that sounds messed up.

I do believe I should find more information on this base. It is way beyond being a civilian airport. That has been fairly recent. When I was growing up it was said that the air strip at Phelps-Collins was the longest in the US. Alas, there is nothing but the WW1 story about the actual man.

I implore someone here to find out more info about the base.

reply to post by kronos11
I'm glad it was you and not me that saw this thing.

Just the number of people who have come forth saying they've seen or even been abducted is quite large. and that's just the people who are awake enough and or remember. Some, like former astronaut Mitchell, ex president Jimmy Carter, Rondald Reagan, William Shatner, Dr. Lynne Kitei, pilots, doctors, lawyers, we're talking credible people not just some homeless junkie on the street.

Now you're talking conspiracy. One of the grand mothers of all conspiracies.

There is the possiblity that most people are "programmed" not to see or admit / remember that they see "them" (whoever the f they are).

I don't think their over all agenda is benevolent either.

Quotes below taken from: www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

"It was the darndest thing I've ever seen. It was big, it was very bright, it changed colours, and it was about the size of the moon. We watched it for ten minutes, but none of us could figure out what it was. One thing's for sure: I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified flying objects in the sky. Former President of the United States, Jimmy Carter following his sighting along with many others of a UFO at Leary, Georgia in October 1969.


"The security guard called and said,Sir, there's a glowing red object hovering right outside the front gate. I've got all the men out here with their weapons drawn. We lost between 16-18 ICBMs (nuclear tipped Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles) at the same time UFOs were in the area. (A high ranking Air Force officer) said,"Stop the investigation; do no more on this and do not write a final report. I heard that many of the guards that reported the incident were sent off to Vietnam." Captain Robert Salas, USAF, during a videotaped interview for the Disclosure program.

"Headquarters wouldn't let us go after it and we played around a little bit. We got to watching how it made 90 degree turns at this high speed and everything. We knew it wasn't a missile of any type, so then we confirmed it with the radar control station, and they kept following it, and then it crashed somewhere off between Texas and the Mexico border."
Colonel Robert Willingham, USAF from an Sworn Affidavit in the 1970's when discussing a sighting of a UFO whilst he was navigating an F94 jet on September 6th 1950.


"The Air Force had put out a secret order for its pilots to capture UFOs. For the last six months we have been working with a congressional committee investigating official secrecy concerning proof that UFOs are real machines under intelligent..."
Major Donald Keyhoe,during a live TV broadcast on CBS in 1958 in which he was pulled from the air when he began to deviate from the prepared format of the programme.


"It appears to be a metallic object...tremendous in size, directly ahead and slightly above.I am trying to close for a better look."
Captain Thomas Mantell, USAF. These were his last words as he closed in on a UFO in 1948. Minutes later his plane was to crash and he was to lose his life.

"More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation, eg that they are hallucinations, the effects of light refraction, meteors, wheels falling from aeroplanes, and the like. They have been tracked on radar screens and the observed speeds have been as great as 9,000 mph. I am convinced that these objects do exist and they are not manufactured by any nation on earth. I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from an extraterrestrial source."
Air Chief Marshall Lord Dowding, Commanding Officer of the RAF during WWII.



----------------- Now start researching how many UFO Researchers have "died" via "accidents / suicides".

I don't know if we want the truth because if a civilazation is able to traveling from star system to star system or through different dimensions, they're way ahead of us and we all know what happens to a group that is less technologically advanced when someone hits their shores (ask the American Indians).

Some people, no matter what the proof just can't or won't "believe" another person.

I'm glad I've never seen a UFO or been abducted because if I had, I sure wouldn't tell another living soul.

In my day to day life, where I am located at, you can't even mention UFO without people looking at you like your nuts.

You can talk about the latest fashion, who is sleeping with who, the last "Dancing With The Stars" program, any and all mind fluff is okay but don't mention the possiblity that we as a species are being "visited".

I think people believe what they can handle. Most people, obey, produce, work hard, watch TV, consume, money is your god, sleep, etc.

The movie, They Live, is probably pretty close to what is going on (minus the cheesy alien/skeletons).

You were having an "awakened moment" and I don't envy you.

Most people just want to remain asleep.

Part of "their power" lies in the fact that this subject is just another way to pit people against each other and divided we fall.

One thing to note: They're getting bolder. By the time everyone becomes aware that "they're here" it will be too late for humanity to do anything about it.

Too many good, sane and rational people have seen their flying crafts for it to any longer be dismissed as "crazy".

I believe you and gave you a star for your courage.

Good post.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Xtrozero
Then at least spell sentence correctly.

I am so tired of the nit picking, that's just another method of side tracking.

If someone is able to get their idea across that is the main thing.

Everyone is so busy picking apart the non important shi* they're missing the big picture.

Nobody should be made to hesitate to post because their grammer or spelling is not perfect.

i believe you. and lots of normal people would too i think. What reason to doubt the testimony of millions of normal people? I dont see any. There are just too many sightings worldwide, and throughout the ages, middle ages, down through history, to take the idea that they're all hoaxes seriously. I think people who think the whole lot were hoaxes or 'mistakes' must be a bit weak in the head.

what is a debunker anyway? someone who gets paid? or someone whos scared of the alien possibility? or someone who wants to make themself feel superior to others by coming on a ufo thread and ridiculing and belittling people for no apparant reason. Either way, not really worth responding to. Just ignore them, i say.

People who are genuinely making up their mind or using their own brain to evaluate evidence/genuinely interested in finding out the truth wont use ridicule and belittling tactics on others - cuz whats the point of that?

Ps, i have had missing time, which my family can verify. i still dont know where i was or what happened to me, nor do i want to know.

I havent seen a ufo or alien, except in lucid/vivid dreams i had post the missing time experience, during which time i also had lots of "sleep paralysis" episodes. funny they call it that, most happened when i was awake.

reply to post by bad man incorporated

I understood his description just fine, per "anti grav", But I'm not "schooled" in "Ion wind". I've actually never heard of it. I'll be looking it up. If you have any links and what not that you could share, that would be cool.

Here is Wikipidia definition

en.wikipedia.org...

This is seen in use in "Lifter" experiments as in below link.

jnaudin.free.fr...

Now I am not saying this is what was used given our limited use of such a thing so far, but with things like this around, to assume it was anti-gravity would be incorrect.

Also I do not argue that the OP saw something, just should leave it at that and not use terminologys for things that can not be proven to be correct. Maybee he say use of anti-gravity, but without performing tests, this is just a guess and should not be used when describing the event. Saying that the object hovered is enough and would have been the correct description to be used because there are all sorts of things that can make an object hover or apear to hover.

Everyone always talks about Jimmy Carter's UFO sighting however I personally think Ronald Regan had a much better sighting and it's almost never discussed.. Hell the plane Regan was on actually chased the UFO..

Here's a link to the Wikki page on the Alpena County Regional Airport

Airport


I still appears to be a training area and was an Army Air force base during WWII. Probably fighters to back up Wirusmith B52's

reply to post by Molan27


completely agree. the reagan incident is corroborated by several pilots and radar as well as the Pres himself. But the simple truth is when skeptics can't even believe the presidents about odd anomolies such as this then what can they believe? we have officials, professionals telling us this IS REAL