Who needs proof when you've see a disc at 50 feet?

Originally posted by kronos11
For example, what about Jimmy Carter? What reason would a President have to create a story about a close sighting of a ufo? His sighting was also corroborated with several other individuals who all reported the same thing and his official testament to the sighting was that it was "absolutely not any craft of this world".

He reported what he saw, the honest truth. Yes there are lights in the sky. Is that a surprise to anyone? And no it wasn't a craft. It didn't move. It got brighter and dimmer. It was exactly in the direction where Venus was this afternoon.

i don't believe your story kronos. so much so that it was nearly impossible to finish it.

you've been a member of this forum since '07' and you think you can sell your story on the "skeptics have no faith" platter.

we are skeptics because we don't believe the current and practiced theories of the UFO. that they are government experiments. most sightings aren't even plausible. there is and has never been any hard evidence that scientists would accept. there is too big a window for mistrust and fraud.
i am skeptical of all evidence in regards to UFO's. if a ET had the technology to travel amunst the stars in the fashion claimed then they would most certainly have technology to make their presence completely unkown in the assumption they didn't want to be known.
therefore the flying object you saw could hardly be interstellar. you just don't know what it was.

Skeptics are exactly what they ARE.. people who lack faith.

believing in aliens and have faith..... this is a paradox.

UFO Phenomenon is still extremely unknown.

We hardly know anything about it at all.

It could very well be that only people who have certain brain wavelengths can actually see and percieve the UFOs - we don't know!

No one can even know what "seeing" a UFO is because it might not even be something that is happening in our known world.

UFOs could easily be walking in front of you yet project a wavelength energy which makes you see objects in the sky...no one knows!

Thank's for sharing though...good story - I doubt even if you had a camera around it would actually function. Don't blame yourself for not having proof - I'm sure everyone will see a UFO of their own one day.

Our lives are long, there is still so much more time left.

reply to post by kronos11

Who needs proof when you've see a disc at 50 feet?

You don't need proof for you to believe. You need proof if you want others to believe though. Either proof or a charismatic form of writing that makes the skeptics have doubts.

You want skeptics to have faith? Faith is a form of trust, and trust is earned.
If my mother said she saw a disc at 50 feet, I would be inclined to be believe her more than some faceless poster on the net.

reply to post by kronos11


Frankly, I’d love some proof.

But before that, I’d actually like to see something as startling as you did, as I’ve never seen anything even remotely anomalous.

And that is immensely annoying.

Do I believe you? Well, yes.

The description of your event obviously isn’t angled to attract believers, or even attention I’d wager, but simply put to let the world know you have witnessed something that defies current understanding. That must be both an amazing, and frustrating, place to be.

I don’t envy that.

I would class myself as having a wary approach to the subject of ET and UFOs. You could almost call me a skeptic/cynic hybrid. This is not because I deny the existence of alien life in the universe, or that it may be visiting our planet, because I do not deny that as a probability. Any rational thinking mind should be open to the possibility that life exists out there. Anyone who doesn’t must inhabit a very lonely, very aloof place.

And I don’t understand that, either.

What I am mostly sceptical about is when witnesses who develop a proselytizing approach to the subject when all they really have is the experience, but then go on to utilise other people’s opinions and conclusions as to what they saw as being correct for them.

We evidently occupy an existence that we have yet to fully comprehend. Weird things happen to the most sane of people, and that should speak volumes to the hardened, inflexible sceptics. Not every one is simply seeing things, or imagining them; and if they are, then we need to realign our understanding of just what reality actually is.

My beliefs do not require anyone elses acceptance for them to exist or be valid.

Likewise what I have seen does not require validation or verification from "some dude from the internet". Many skeptics believe this is the case, unfortunately many witnesses seem to believe likewise.

I dont need to convince anyone of anything, nor do I need to be second guessed or reality checked by an armchair expert(or 12 year old armchair amateur), who was never there.

Many witnesses here need to do themselves a favour, and not get drawn into this cycle of pointless debate. If you are convinced, what the hell do you care if some guy you have never met 12,000 Miles away believes you or not? Share your story absolutely if you wish, but dont get drawn into defending your every word.

Many skeptics will say "well without evidence, im not convinced." And that is your right. However its not our job to fill your needs, thats your responsibility in life.

So in short. Satisfy your own mind, as its the only one that actually matters to you.

Likewise though, if you are filled with a need to "make people believe", you might instead consider a career in the clergy.

Originally posted by kronos11
Regardless - my sighting proves to me that ANTI-GRAVITY EXISTS, SPACE TRAVEL EXISTS and thus LIMITLESS ENERGY EXISTS. 'nuff said.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kronos11]

Great Post, and I can understand your feelings towards sceptics, but what I find that works sceptics up, like myself, the most is the unsupported assumptions and assertions that come as a consequence of these experiences and the expectation that everyone will agree or accept these assumptions and assertions based on personal testimony. Just a heads up for you, it ain't ever going to happen. I for one am not sceptical of UFO, as they are unexplained, I have rason to question things when people explain the UFO without anyother insight except seeing a UFO.

By all means report your experience, and express the beliefs that are inspired by them. But people are going to have question marks. I use the quote from the end of you post to highlight this. How can you possibly be sure all of that is true. You can't, from that one experience.
A common claim or belief derived from UFO experiences is that Alien life exist as a result because A=UFO then A=Aliens must exist. Here you have A=UFO is then A=Limitless energy, Ati-grav and Space travel. (hehe...BTW just incase you need a bit more evidence to support your claims, we all know space travel exists, we send stuff up and out there all the time.)

Given the appalling history of humans who are "claiming" that they know this and that or have experiences etc that then leads them to believe something as being definite and real, but then is not or false, is there for all to see. This is what leads to scepticism Why are you surprised or even bothered by sceptics? Especially in this field. Its par for the course.

Hi kronos11 and All,

I believe you. None of us has all the answers, how can we. But those of us who have seen up close and/or experienced abductions know that these things are real. I am not saying at times I don't doubt myself and some of the photos I have taken over recent years but then I remember the times that there can be no doubt about. Such as seeing the small craft across a major road above a pub (this I wrote about a while back) and also the other time when I sat for 2.1/2 hours out my back (live in the countryside) and watched a Triangle or Pyramid shaped Craft move or hover over a small area above a scrub area about 1 kilometre from where I sat. It also had small or tiny craft which came out of it. They swarmed around the immediate area like bees. I can only guess what they were doing. The little ones were bright irridescent green. The large one appeared to move almost continuously as each triangle shape had a different colour and when it faced down the light/colour was on the ground, then light into the sky or to the sides. There were multiple colours. Red, Green, Amber, I can't remember them all as I became too nervouse to write it all down and never have until now. Even now it is just a summary.

They must have known I was watching them as at one after a couple of hours a cat fight broke out and a bully male chased another cat out ascross the paddocks. My German Shepherd chased them. Not in the direction of the UFO .. I became scared for my German Shepherd and ran out after her. When I did that they sent some kind of a drone out toward me. I say drone because it seemed to me to be unmanned as it just moved slowly toward me and hovered maybe 6 feet or so above the ground which is undulating. It moved in an undulating manner just as if it was following the contours of the ground. It was non threatening but I was scared for my dog (bitch) and finally got her back to the house and locked her in. A short time after that it started to move in an easterly direction and I went inside rather shaken but exhilerated at the same time. I did not have a digital camera at the time so no photos.

I believe you. I have seen and experienced way too much not to though so I can understand the skeptics but I don't understand why they bother debunking those of us that have seen. If we were trying to make money out of these experiences then maybe there would be a reason to attack or debunk us. But we are just telling others like us our own experiences.

icarus333

If I saw a U.F.O close up I would not care if no one else believed me, it would be a total priviledge, I wouldn't be bothered if anyone else believed me because I would know....at long last...that they do exist, instead of me having to sit on the fence wondering if they are real or not and searching and searching for the truth.

Kronos, you say you had a personal experience, you don't even need to depend on faith to believe anymore, you had the priviledge of seeing this thing close up and instead of counting yourself lucky what have you done? I'll tell you what you've done, you've come onto this forum whining about sceptics not believing you, to me that doesn't make sense and for that reason alone I question whether you saw this thing or not. However, again, if you did see it, you are incredibly lucky.

Ok, here is what I see just by your original post alone. First you flame skeptics right off the bat in order to help your later case thinking that they will be now ignored when questioning you about your story. Second you present your story, which would be fine but then you state that these craft you saw are proof that antigrvity exists??? Now this is a bit of a strech. Even if you saw these craft, and I won't argue that point for the time being, is there no possible other means of flight that might have been used other than antigravity, such as an advanced form of ionic wind perhaps, just to name one?

As far as faith or belief in something you can not see, many people believe in what they can not see. Religion, for example, is all about belief and not fact. One person could say to a nonbeliever that because of all of the creatures, the trees, the "miracles that are abundant on this planet", there must be a higher power at work, to which the reply from the non believer would be based in scientific fact how a world could evolve from almost nothing into a world with such wonderous things using Darwanismas there main tool, (which is a belief in it's own right.). To even another nonbeliever they might say that an alien race teraformed this planet and that we are decedants of such a race. As you see faith or belief systems are all point of view oriented.

< - - - Edited for some spelling but not all - - - >

[edit on 4/28/2009 by AlienCarnage]

I have a cabin in the McKinely area so I know the Long Lake Alpena area too. I think Wurthsmith AFB was closed by 93 but maybe the little guys didn't get the memo. Bigfoot has also been reported in the area.

Originally posted by spearhead

we are skeptics because we don't believe the current and practiced theories of the UFO. that they are government experiments. most sightings aren't even plausible.

what is so implausible about it? just because you haven't seen it or heard of it does that make it implausible. Ahh.. another imagination gone kaput.

Originally posted by spearhead
believing in aliens and have faith..... this is a paradox.

My belief in aliens had nothing to do with this incident.. as I stated it could have been some experimental government vehicle but I got a feeling it wasn't.

Originally posted by Daisy-Lola
You want skeptics to have faith? Faith is a form of trust, and trust is earned.
If my mother said she saw a disc at 50 feet, I would be inclined to be believe her more than some faceless poster on the net.

I would say that most are inclined to feel this way, at least all of my friends and family are..

But I think people are getting my rant wrong here. Im not asking skeptics to have faith in my story... What would this faith do? It definitely wouldn't give you an encounter or that first hand knowledge that you so desire to believe it. Actually I could care less whether you believe me or not.. this thread was started more as a comment on the lack of faith in the overwhelming evidence out there, not just my little sighting. Yes I am a faceless poster but Jimmy Carter has a face, as well as thousands of other brave HONEST souls who have come forward with far more phenomenal stories than mine. Many of these professionals, pilots, scientists, government officials, - I can dead on tell that they are honestly telling the truth about close encounters. If we can believe on the faith in these authorities who have come forward that there are these things out there then maybe we can manifest this technology for ourselves.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kronos11]

reply to post by Beamish


thanks for your enlightening observations..

Originally posted by icarus333
I believe you. I have seen and experienced way too much not to though so I can understand the skeptics but I don't understand why they bother debunking those of us that have seen. If we were trying to make money out of these experiences then maybe there would be a reason to attack or debunk us. But we are just telling others like us our own experiences.

icarus333

Wow, that story sure beats mine!!! tanks for sharing.

Thanks kronos,

I hope I will see another one up close before too long. I have seen plenty in the distance way up in the sky but they are hard to photograph. I will share more in the future. Hope you too see another one soon

icarus333

reply to post by kronos11


I must know, how do you know they are teling the truth, can you read their minds? If you can not, than there is no way to be certain that they are telling the truth or not aside from belief in these people. Where this belief may be enough for you, it is by no means necessarily enough for the general populous, since everyone requires differing amounts of proof, from person to person.

reply to post by da_beast_666


That may be worthless to you, not me. I would appreciate it if you spoke for yourself. IMO I almost always believe in what someone tells me, a story or a memory, or a sighting. You may think its dumb because they could be lieing, but really what harm will it cause to believe someone? Absolutly nothing. Neither the believer nor the lier will gain anything. Asking for proof abouit what someone esle saw is ridcoulus, why waste your time. Either you believe him or you dont. Anyways in relation the OP thread, I believe I have read this story once here on ATS, maybe on an old thread you wrote about it. Was it at a school or something?

Peace!

We get told to only believe what we see, and if we dont have proof then again, don't believe. But then when we DO see, and we DO report to the people who say these things, they don't believe us - because we dont have proof, or good enough proof, and they them selfs didnt see with there own eyes.

It's such a viscous cycle, one that we taught are self to believe in

I think you know without my saying that I believe you completely and have no reason what so ever to doubt your story.

I too have personal proof positive that falls into the very private category of the unexplainable.

So what to do? Just continue to be the great person you are, and I believe that is why you have been accepted as a trusted one, and go on.

Very cool, and I ask you what you think of the shifting of the earths axis?