Who needs proof when you've see a disc at 50 feet?

Originally posted by kronos11
What happens when an honest guy comes forward and says "I saw a clear view of a silver disc at close range"? Do you not believe him because you weren't there?

I give him the benefit of the doubt. But if he starts going on about how the ship was friendly gray aliens from Zeta Reticuli, then I got a problem. How does it in any way prove that aliens of any kind exist? Even if the sighting was real, it didn't prove anything. It was just an odd thing that happened that has no particular explanation.

So all we can really say is, "Hey, good for you. Sounds awesome. You get a cookie."

reply to post by kronos11

Well written, good catch , I believe. I've never seen anything though.

Originally posted by kronos11
I always come back to this forum even though Im beginning to feel its a waste.. the same thing each time. heres the latest video! news item! and then its back and forth, debunkers and believers. What happens when an honest guy comes forward and says "I saw a clear view of a silver disc at close range"? Do you not believe him because you weren't there? What happened to faith that somebody is saying exactly what they saw? So often in these UFO and abduction cases I see the skeptics rush in and completely shoot over the testimony of eyewitness and abductees with some lame set of explanations as to what it COULD be. For example, what about Jimmy Carter? What reason would a President have to create a story about a close sighting of a ufo? His sighting was also corroborated with several other individuals who all reported the same thing and his official testament to the sighting was that it was "absolutely not any craft of this world".

IMO Skeptics are exactly what they ARE.. people who lack faith. They lack faith in the honest, and in many cases, painful testimony of countless witnesses, pilots, officials, professionals, scientists, colonels, you name it. Of course you have your attention grabbers and hoaxers but normally those are fairly easy to spot.. anyone with half a perception can determine when someone is genuinely relaying what they saw. I am telling YOU now, a good friend and I witnessed a silver disc fly down a mountainside to our cabin and hovered at tree top level (about 50 feet above the ground) for at least a couple of minutes. The craft was glowing, silent but it did emit a sub-level hum. As it approached us coming down the mountainside it woke up a hundred or more small animals on the hillside who proceeded to flee from their burrows and bushes away from the craft. There is no question what it was not - it was not a chinese lantern, a balloon, and I am inclined to believe that it was not military in design but Im not certain. Regardless - my sighting proves to me that ANTI-GRAVITY EXISTS, SPACE TRAVEL EXISTS and thus LIMITLESS ENERGY EXISTS. 'nuff said.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kronos11]

I can see exactly where your coming from but you also need to consider those who require a mix of both belief in the honesty of others AND some form of factual evidence.

Myself as an example of this; I personally feel that my heart always believes a genuine looking case from your average UFO witness but on the other hand that little piece of logic upon which I base every-day decisions requires just that little bit of FACTUAL PROOF.

I am neither a believer or a skeptic... i'm an Inbetweener.

I believe that one day that case will be presented where I just think 'WOW!!!' which is my motivation for returning to ATS and regularly checking for updates on UFO's and related paranormal phenomena.

I believe you seen an unidentified flying object. I also believe that the gov'ts have some form of anti grav craft.
I mean, in 1968, the Lockheed YF-12A could fly as fast as a bullet from a gun.
That was 1968. Imagine now.

source of plane speed

Source of bullet speed

Originally posted by bad man incorporated

I mean, in 1968, the Lockheed YF-12A could fly as fast as a bullet from a gun.
That was 1968. Imagine now.

Excellent Point! Adding to that, look how much we have advanced technologically in the past 15 years. It is simply astounding!

Originally posted by Shuzitzu

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
I mean, in 1968, the Lockheed YF-12A could fly as fast as a bullet from a gun.
That was 1968. Imagine now.

Excellent Point! Adding to that, look how much we have advanced technologically in the past 15 years. It is simply astounding!

So, when it comes to a witness describing an unusual aircraft, doesn't it make it even more difficult to instantly declare it to be proof of aliens, anti-gravity, limitless energy or some other equally unverified thing? It might be something entirely home grown and the simply a logical progression of work of the smart folks at McDonnell Douglas or Boeing.

Unless a blueprint drops out of it when it speeds away, it's impossible to say for sure what it was.

First of all, I am not saying you didnt see it. But I cant believe everyone who says they saw something. Furthermore, I cant believe someones interpretation of what they saw as fact.

It would be kind of like me saying I had a real monkey fly out of my butt and that if we could hook up a generator to my butt we could harness the energy of the monkey coming out to produce free energy. A real monkey could have flown out my butt, or a little toy monkey could have flown out my butt, or I could have just been hallucinating. Each of these events produce different amounts of energy as they fly out of my orifice.

Originally posted by Nohup

So, when it comes to a witness describing an unusual aircraft, doesn't it make it even more difficult to instantly declare it to be proof of aliens, anti-gravity, limitless energy or some other equally unverified thing? It might be something entirely home grown and the simply a logical progression of work of the smart folks at McDonnell Douglas or Boeing.

Unless a blueprint drops out of it when it speeds away, it's impossible to say for sure what it was.

Well, He didn't say it WAS proof of aliens. It defied gravitational "laws" in his eyes, there for, anti gravity. haha. Sure, limitless energy would be harder to prove just by observing a hovering craft. That definitely is speculation. But it IS unidentified to him. And a description makes it unidentified to most. In a digital world, I'll still trust my own eyes, before some shaky cam phone. Really. I guess unless a UFO hovers above every major city in the world, no one will believe anyone.

: OMG ID4. haha.

Its the "I need to see it to believe it" mentality that drives skepticism. It is only natural.

Originally posted by kronos11

IMO Skeptics are exactly what they ARE.. people who lack faith. They lack faith in the honest, and in many cases, painful testimony of countless witnesses, pilots, officials, professionals, scientists, colonels, you name it.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kronos11]

I agree with you but I dont even think its a mater of faith, I mean when you consider the countless suns and planets in our gallaxy alone and then add too that the billions if not trillions of other gallaxys in the universe its inconcivable that there is not other intellegent life at different stages of advancment or what have you.

Then you add to all that the thousands of eyewitness reports, abduction reports and many contactees accounts over the hundereds even thousands of years.

I belive that the debunkers deep down know they cant be right but its just their way of dealing with the enevitable truth.


[edit on 28-4-2009 by Reevster]

Ive had a metalic disc pass over low and directly above me.. as it passed it also started glowing and then it just suddenly
shrunk to a jet black cylinder " kinda looked like a oil drum" and it just continued floating across the sky..

quite a amazing sight to see.. i also had my answer then aswell.. ive seen other things aswell but none quite like that one.

also UFO's were not the only things showing up.. i then had alot of military choppers starting to buzz my area.. including
this apache gunship which circled over my house..

s292.photobucket.com...

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
First of all, I am not saying you didnt see it. But I cant believe everyone who says they saw something. Furthermore, I cant believe someones interpretation of what they saw as fact.

I agree and I actually wouldn't have believed my own eyes had it not been for a good friend standing by my side. although he is very reluctant to discuss the incident at length he has concurred with exactly what I had witnessed.

Originally posted by Armour For Victor
Anyways in relation the OP thread, I believe I have read this story once here on ATS, maybe on an old thread you wrote about it. Was it at a school or something?

Peace!

hey man thanks for checking in. yea, you probably have heard my story before, I have shared it a few times in my 2 years visiting ATS.

I think it is reasonable for people to want "proof" any good sceptic or believer wants it.

The problem with some (not all) skeptics is the knee jerk reaction that some people exhibit. It is instant hostility.

Example:
I was having a conversation with two friends and was specifically discussing ATS with one of them. He asked me if I believed in aliens and UFOs. I told him that with all of the reports and stories that there might be something to it. He had not even managed to reply when my other friend jumped into the conversation. She roundly scolded me for being a gullible fool and told me I was a moron if I thought there could be anything to UFOs or Alien life.
She is not a believer which is fine. I know a lot of intelligent people that don't believe in UFOs, paranormal, and such but the subjects don't usually evoke an angry response. She was extremely hostile to me about it though. I did not try to convince her of anything. I didn't even say it was true. I simply stated that there was a possibility of something being behind these stories and she acted as if I had spit on her new shoes. I was very shocked that she was so rude about it. I've known her for a few years and she is a normal, nice person. Her reaction really suprised me. My other friend got a bit of an ass chewing when he defended my right to be open minded.

I understand why people want proof. I'd like to see it myself. Being skeptical is simply part of reasoning and logic.
What I don't undestand is the sometimes outright hostility towards people that are open to the possibility of the existence of things beyond our understanding.

Why the anger?

reply to post by kronos11


I was the same way, kinda sorta, not in dis-believing but rather why couldn't there be better proof, especially with video etc .....

So finally I am the persons seeing the UFO, and of course my inept brother and I try to get it on video to only catch a miserable video of the lights we observed.

the lights we could make out with binoculars was much more enhanced and NOT A STAR, it was definitely roundish and had several colored lights around it, not at all like landing lights or airplane warning lights.

But of course we messed up our chance at getting the documented proof as I am sure most people are since they aren't sitting there with cam corder, tripod and several night vision electronic devices in hand.
My video

I think you are correct. I find that most people who come forward with evidence or a sighting are made to feel foolish by other members. I am not surprised that people dont come forward with info because why should they? They just get ridiculed. Why would non believers take you seriously when the apperent true believers on this site just want to debunk what you are saying.

Just seems like a very hierarchacal society with everyone racing to dis credit others claims.

Yes there are many hoaxes out there, but even if someone came forward with iriputable evidence, many members would find away to debunk it.

I guess what im saying is, many people on here just cant believe because they havent touched it, smelled it or seen it for themselves. Maybe its just jealousy

Kind Regards

Harrts

reply to post by bad man incorporated


Defying gravity, does not make it anti gravity, there are such things as ion wind, which we are still only beginning to understand as a general populace. If there were further advances in the studies of this subject material that the general populace is not aware of, it is possible that we have craft that make use of such a thing or something similar on this planet. Ion Wind is not antigravity though, even though objects lifting off the ground appear to be defying gravity. So even if he saw an object as he says he did, to make claims that it used antigravity would be incorrect unless he had detailed schematics on the thing.

So at best he could say that an object appeared and it was "hovering" x feet, meters, etc above the graound, with an unknown meathod.

reply to post by MoothyKnight

Its the "I need to see it to believe it" mentality that drives skepticism. It is only natural.

I am a skeptic and I believe he saw something, as to what it was is open to interpretation depending on the viewer and fellow viewers. You can't go by his and his friend seeing the same thing, because most friends will see similar things, most good friends tend to think alike, hence why they are our friends. So where we can believe he saw something, the rest of the story can not simply be just believed by everyone, some people do need proof. I see things in the sky I cannot explain all the time, but that doesn't make them anything out of this world or even some black project, just do not have enough details to explain what I saw.

reply to post by Reevster

I agree with you but I dont even think its a mater of faith, I mean when you consider the countless suns and planets in our gallaxy alone and then add too that the billions if not trillions of other gallaxys in the universe its inconcivable that there is not other intellegent life at different stages of advancment or what have you.

I have no problem in believing this, what i have a hard time felieving is with all of these possible planets and systems, they maneged to find our tiny little planet out of them all. Not only that but seing how we as a "civilization" treat our planet, they would actually want to keep coming back.

Then you add to all that the thousands of eyewitness reports, abduction reports and many contactees accounts over the hundereds even thousands of years.

And all of these have to be otherworldly why?? Governments throughout history have been known to kidnap people and put them through tortures, experimenting to find which ones would be most effective on thier enimies, still continuing into modern times, which would easilly account for many abduction stories. And since there have always been inventors throughout history, just watch a couple ancient history programs on the history channel, which would more than account for unusual sightings throughout history. In current times, there are still new vehicles being tested that are not on the norm of knowledge, and seing one of these would surly look alien, that does not mean that it is.


Because of all of this, I still see no proof of aliens just normal everyday Human Earth buisiness as usual.

[edit on 4/29/2009 by AlienCarnage]

I believe you. I tend to give everyone the same chance because you just never know. I dont need to see a flying metal object to believe because I already believe. Thanks for sharing your experience! For me I just ignore the debunkers and skeptics.