Ah, but remember, the present is continually shifting, it is not static. The entire world changes every moment, but that change is a result of forces
put into action from the beginning of time. The forces that collude to create what we know as time should not be denied. The reality we perceive, as
we are able to perceive it, flows in recognizable patterns that we can only change by recognizing that these patterns exist. In this manner we are
able to shape the future through what influences are made available to us. Our ability to make these changes depends on us being at the right place
at the right moment to do what needs to be done.
I am going to use the rest of this thread to inform about the teachings of the Aryan themselves, in their inadulerated and pure forms, so one we all
can learn the real truth about reality. I will take recourse to many living spiritual teachers who have mastered the Aryan teachings to the extent
that they can apply them directly to life and teach by example. The one who can teach by example in Sanskrit is known as Acharaya. The Acharyas
of India are none other than the Druids of Briton, they are both one and the same - the wise masters that society consulted to solve their problems.
In Aryan times, society venerated these wise masters and seeked their guidance for everything. They were the true noble and enlightened ones and the
epitome of Aryan society.
Time - The Cause of Creation
This video presents an excellent demonstration on what time is by Swami Chinmayananda, a very humerous and wise master that seems to be straight out
of an Astrix comic.
One problem that has cropped up in the course of this discussion is time, what is time, what is past, present and future. This is a timeless mystery
and many philosophers and scientists have tried to solve it. The most recent one, everybody knows, is Einstein. His theory of relativity tells us that
time is not an absolute entity, but only a relational entity that is relative to space and ones frame of reference.
The distance between two points is space, and the time taken to reach point B from point A is time. To get from point A to B, one must travel between
A and B in steps and each step is a unit of time(second, minute, hour etc)
Now suppose the time between A and B is 100 steps. If each step is an hour, it will take one 100 hours to get to point B. If it is a minute, it will
take one 100 min to reach point B, and if it is second, it will take one 100 seconds to reach point B. The distance is still the same, the only
difference is that at different times reaches point B either slower or faster.
So at the same distance for one whose frame of reference observes time at an hour per step relative to one who observes time at a minute per step,
will be 60 times slower.
So the Aryans define time in the Vaiseshika Sutras as that which is based on slowness and fastness. The space or distance still remains the same, it
is only time which is faster or slower. Now using this you can understand what time really is, it the rate of change between two events. The first
event is the cause and the second is the effect.
Event A ------------------------------------------- Event B
The time it will take for event A to become event B for an observer at the frame of reference of unit-time at a second will be 60 times than somebody
with the frame of reference of unit time at a minute. This means for the former observer event B will taken place 60 times the time-units before event
B has takes place for the latter observer.
Now what exactly is an event? You can define an event as an observed change of something in time e.g., a light blub going from off to on. The
substratum here is the light bulb and the events are light off and light on and the change is the light going from off to on. The substratum of all
observation is our consciousness, and each event is a thought that occurs within consciousness, and change is actually a change in mental states.
Therefore what is time really? Time is the difference between two thoughts-events.
An illustration: I am thinking and I think of an elephant, now I am thinking of a bear, now I am thinking of a fish. Here there have been 3 events and
each event can be measured by the changes in thoughts. The sequence of these events is called a time line.
Now lets make it more fun. The sequence of thought-events gives rise to a timeline and this give us the notion of duration of our body. My first
thought was at birth and since I have had an entire chain of thoughts. However, I have only observed these events a the frame of reference of the body
at which time is moving at a certain speed. If I were to observe it from another frame of reference at which time is moving at twice the speed, then I
will be able to know the next event in my body timeline twice as early before it occurs there! At a frame of reference where time is 1000 times faster
relative to my body-time I will know the next event 1000 times earlier. Logically, at a certain frame of reference I would be dead before I am even
born, and if I am dead I cannot think, and if I cannot think there cannot be time.
You exist simutaneously as multiple levels of energy states and each energy state differs from the others by vibration of the energy i.e., frequency.
At higher energy levels time is faster than lower energy levels, therefore an event that places at a lower energy level, has already happened at a
higher energy level. At infinite energy level time becomes infinite and there are no events. i.e., no time.
So what does this demonstration show us? Time does not exist. If time does not exist there is no past or future. If there is no past or future, then
there is no birth and death. If there is no birth and death, then creation never happened and you never happened. However, that cannot be because you
are aware of existence. Therein lies the absolute truth: You are existence. You are the eternal. You are the absolute and it is from you that all
first thankyou for this thread, it is enlightening on so many levels
so if time does not exist, which i agree with fully
then everything past is really just a story ( and according to what we are told HIS story)
and everything in the future can only be speculated on for now, but as we arrive we know and then it becomes a story again
like a high rise building, you start at the ground level, you ascend to something above, it is the first story, you know what is there and then you
can go to the next story and then the first and second story become history
but you must never forget that you originally started on the ground, becomes that is where you must always be able to get back to, to get out of the
construction. (unless of course you jump!)
sorry for the simple analogy, but simple is sometimes best.
The Aryans have the best answer to this whole notion of chains of cause and effect(the tower in your analogy) there is no causal chain. It is
explained as follows:
At any given moment at time t+1 the position of an atom(Sanskrit: Paramanu) is never the same as t. Its position is constantly changing. So if the
position of an atom is constantly changing, then there can no aggregation, such as the atom combining with other atoms to form molecules, because it
is never in one place.
The observer at a body frame of reference sees a solid and a solid is an illusion that there is a causal chain and hence time. For example we think
that the universe has been around for approx 15 billion years, and during those years certain events happened: big bang, formation of solar systems,
formation of planets, formation of organisms, formation of humans. In actual fact such an aggregation never took place.
In the Yoga sutras it instructs that when the observer becomes conscious of the gaps between cause and effect, they become conscious of the gaps
between the gaps, until they realise there are no gaps and they realise that all creation really is the eternal present. The entire history of
creation is explained very clearly in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad when Narad approaches Sanatkumar to be instructed in what the cosmic
heirarchy of knowledge is.
I definitely recommend that those interested in learning Aryan wisdom read the Upanishads.
This has been an interesting, intriguing and informative thread. Thanks to all that contributed, especially Indigo_Child for the original post. After
reading and digesting what I am able (not much, I'm not as smart as you guys) I have reached what I think is a very profound conclusion.
For all those following here who may actually be trying to learn something new, even though, IMHO it may be quite unlikely such is the case, I
have decided to post this, after due deliberation ...
You said :
So your argument that the Aryan meaning corrupted in recent times makes no difference to the present meaning. Its denotative meaning has always been
the same "noble" for thousands of years and that that takes precedence with me, and it sounds like with most people posting in this thread. You seem
to be the only one complaining about the recent meaning, which you treat as if it were fixed forever. It is not fixed, it had a positive meaning for
thousands of years, then in the last century it acquired a negative meaning, and again it seems to have acquired a positive meaning again.
So, I've been watching for a while and it's pretty clear what's going on here is similar to a recent Harry Potter Wannabe thread I also
watched, initially with interest, and then later with abject disappointment.
Maybe you and your 'followers' here are the Aryan Nation Wannabees ... I don't know, and I don't really care.
Especially disappointing is your presentation of time. It's just nonsense. You have missed Swamiji's meaning entirely. This is because you have no
access to the level of wisdom and intelligence required to even begin to understand what he has said.
Whatever - I'm tired of this nonsense.
Your arguments, and those of your supporters as well, regarding my posts here are mostly nonsense ( except where I agree with you ), are
occasionally dismissive and infuriating, and always in full denial of facts to the contrary, hence my conclusion that you really do consider
yourself some kind of a superior being, entitled to define 'reality' any way you 'feel' like it ...
And this is fine too. It's your right to consider yourself superior to others, even in the face of overwhlming evidence to the contrary, which is the
consistent tenor of your posts in this thread to all those who disagree with you ...
So, now that all that is 'off my chest,' so to speak, here's what 'Aryan' means to the Western world - right now, at this very moment -
I taked about in my earlier post the various level energy levels one exists at and the higher the energy level the faster the flow of time. Let us now
take a look at what those levels are according to the Aryans.
There are 5 energy levels of the physical universe which interpenetrate and each level has a higher density: they are in orders of increasing energy
The highest energy level is etheric and at level energy is infinite, and therefore time is infinite. If you heat solid matter, you increase the
kinetic energy of the atoms in it and it transistions to liquid, gaseous and plasmic states of matter, if you continue to increase the energy it will
transision further to photonic and then to pure field and then becomes pure vibration of the absolute. The energy can be increased by simpy spinning
the matter so fast that it reverts to its higher density levels.
So matter is existing simultaneously in these 5 states of matter, and of these the first 4 are atomic and made from finer atoms than the preceeding
level. Solids are made from solid atoms, plasma is made from ions, light is made from photons, field is made from quantum strings. The last level
ether is non-atomic.
Just as there are 5 states of matter, there are 5 levels of the body that correspond to them:
Annamaya Kosha - Physical body - This refers to the body of flesh, blood, bones, marrow, chemicals, organs
Pranamaya Kosha - Energy body - This refers to the energy which is circulating around our body and which energise our various parts. You can
become aware of consciously directing the energy to flow to a certain part in your body and you will begin to feel the movement of the energy.
Manomaya kosha - Mental and emotional Body - This refers to all the thoughts which are stored around our entire body and correspond to our
neutral networks, except the pathways in the mental body are more finer than electricity. The mental plane is experienced through our mental and
emotional states which is non-local to the physical body i.e., you cannot pry open the physical body and observe ones thoughts and emotions.
Vijananamaya kosha - Intellectual body - This refers to the actual mathematical and logical processes that are taking place within our body. At
this level everything is just information states.
Anandamaya Kosha - Bliss/Absolute body - This refers to pure consciousness and life, every descending level is just a crudification of this
pure consciousness or absolute.
As every level is just a crudification of consciousness then it means at every level there is a level of consciousness. These states have also been
described, they are:
These in turn correspond to states of consciousness: waking, dreaming and deep sleep(these are subdivided into many more levels, but lets not
complicate things) Note, I demonstrated earlier that at higher energy levels time flows faster. Therefore, one can predict based on that that higher
consciousness should have faster flows of time. Indeed they do, events that take place in dream occur instantly. You simply have to think it and then
it manifests immediately. This is also why you can have precognitive dreams and de-ja vu moments, because in dream state time is flowing faster than
your waking state, and thus events are happening there before they happen in the waking state.
The beauty of Aryan wisdom is that they demystify everything and present all the mysteries of reality to us in such clear and simple terms.
I personally think you sound a bit jealous, and that befuddles me, as I cannot see why anyone would be jealous of little me? All we have seen so far
in this thread is you attack me, tell me I am wrong, and declare us that you are the one with the real knowledge.
You should not treat knowledge as a competition. If you have more knowledge than me about the Aryan teachings, then share it with us and enlighten us
all. However, something tells me you're just all hot-air and have nothing of value to add to this thread.
It is funny so far in this entire thread you're the only one who has a problem with it and whenever you post you post with spite. As somebody said to
you earlier, "What is your problem" ?
Do you really think an omnipotent, benevolent, all-loving God, who considers us his children would really penalize people for their beliefs? Or their
sexual preferences? That, IMO, is flawed logic, because he then wouldn't be benevolent, OR all-loving.
That's an interesting comment EMM and frankly I'm not sure what to think. (Pardon my butting in, I know this was aimed elsewhere.) Logically I could
entertain that there is no god, god is evil or god is neither good nor evil. In truth I'm more inclined to consider religious scriptures as being the
thoughts of flawed men. Some rather benign and loving and others rather evil and lustful.
What tells us beyond a doubt god is benevolent? And which god is the benevolent one? Perhaps god is evil and good people are wrong. Perhaps "god" is
or was an ET with an ego and a temper. Logic dictates some strange things.
I appreciate your efforts on this thread, and enjoy reading the things you are teaching, but I will have to disagree with you and the good Swami on
We live in a physical plane with three dimensions of space, which continuously changes referred to as time, containing various states of matter and
energy. We know all of this is real because we have senses that can detect the existence of matter in this world, three dimensional space, the
passage of time, and the force of energy. Now, you can claim that these things do not exist, but because we can sense these things, measure and
quantify them, the concept that they do not exist requires that this is all an illusion created by the one that is all of us. I believe I understand
what you are saying here, but I would extend this concept further and say that even if this were all an illusion created by the one, then the illusion
does exist, and it has meaning, and so recognizing the elements of this world that illusion has created for us is important in order for us to learn
the lessons we are teaching ourselves with this illusion.
This brings me back to time, time is every bit as real as energy, matter, and space, and this can be easily demonstrated. Take the point A and point
B example. When you are at point A, you have a perspective of the world from point A, and the world has a perspective of you, and as long as you are
at point A, that perspective remains. Then you go to point B, and when you arrive at point B, you now have a perspective from point B, and the world
has a perspective of you at point B. Now during that time frame when you were at point A, you could see everything that was happening at that time
from the perspective of point A, and the world could see you at point A, and the same goes for the time frame during which you were at point B. Now
if something happened hat was only visible from the perspective of point A, that is not detectable from point B, then you could only become aware of
this during the time when you were at point A. If the event happened while you were at point B, which does not have a perspective of this event, you
would not be aware that this event took place. Your observation and influence over the world at point A only exists as long as you are at point A,
and the same is true of point B.
A better example of the importance of time I think can be found with the illustration of hitting a baseball with a bat. You get yourself a nice stout
piece of timber and you step up to the plate, and the pitcher throws the leather bound ball over the plate. Now, you can only hit that ball with your
bat and send it hurtling out across the field if you swing the bat with enough force through the space where the ball is passing over the plate, at
the exact moment in time when that ball is passing over the plate. You must be in the right place, at the right time, with the right stuff, and the
right energy level to knock the ball out into play, and this is true for most of life. You get three tries in baseball to hit the ball out into the
bleachers, to become the hero so others will buy you beer later, and increase the odds that you will have sex with an attractive mate, and go on to
live a rich life here in this world of illusions.
This is a clear reality of this world that we live in, whether or not it is an illusion. It is important to recognize this. Being spiritual and
living life on this physical plane can and should be done at the same time.
If you want the world to embrace the spiritualism of the Aryan world, then you must be able to recognize these things.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Yes and No. Yes, because they do teach of a supreme being known as BRAHMAN, an infinite and absolute divinity that is pure consciousness, but this is
unlike the personal creator god of Abrahmic religion. It is more like an absolute reality that underlies all of existence, a profound mystery but
which is the source of all wisdom, love and knowledge. The Aryans called this Sat-chit-ananda - existence, truth/pure consciousness and pure bliss.
This is the only true reality, everything else is a virtual reality.
I am still reading the thread and have only made it to page 1, and haven't watched the videos yet, so please excuse me if this has already been
addressed, I'm just replying while it is fresh on my mind, I intend to read the other 9 pages.
The father talked about in the OT is exactly what you describe here, pure consciousness. This can easily be understood because he goes by the name
"I AM", which is a function of knowing what it means to be, and is showing that he is pure consciousness. I know the father, and yes the father
is pure consciousness.
Jesus over and over makes reference to this as well "on that day you will know the father is in me and I in you" etc.
So I am not sure why you are trying to draw some difference between the 2, and I generally find the clinging to ancient cultures as "your heritage"
as a sign that someone is "sick". Such things are of little importance, only the knowledge and wisdom is valid. As such, I find the building up
of credibility at the start to be distasteful. I understand it is due to an effort to take away credibility, but in the end such debates turn into
he said/she said thing and comes up useless IMO.
I'm sure you can find people in all cultures who lack understanding and turn god into "false idols".
But I'm going to watch the movies and read the rest. Hopefully things will get more into the knowledge, rather than history claims.
They sent me an email asking me if I didn't fit in or if I was different from everyone else and didn't know why. That if I felt that way that I may
be a special indigo child. This is another example of the current trend of "I'm more esoteric than everyone because I'm different". And the
grouping of people who are looking for where they belong but don't know where they do.
I almost fell for it until I realised that I am just as special as everyone else and that the narcassist people I was around wanted to be so overly
esoteric that they were lying through their teeth to one another. I would catch them in their lies and watch them play off of other religions and just
bask in their own awesomeness. Because they hold the secret and no on else does... well unless you are an elite. You don't want to be one of THEM do
Be who you are. If thats a indigo child, then so be it. But please don't tell me you are but you are not a guru and if I don't listen I am not
'esoteric' enough to get it. Because only people who are in the system don't get it, right?
That is one of the biggest propagated questions that makes people who already feel isolated join something. I was an isolated person. Then I found
myself and became more isolated. Sometimes in order to be who you are you have to be alone. Indigo children is for people who feel left out who want
to be special and know ancient knowledge.
But you don't have to be an indigo child to have wisdom. A title is nothing but a social symbol.
I am me. I crave knowledge like everyone else and I gain wisdom from experiences and reading and learning from everyone.
May everyonne find the strength to be who they are. no matter what that may be.
I understand where your hope lies, but language itself is a second grade mediator only, the first mediator is the ability called speech. And being a
mediator (medium) it is actually separating oneself from "god" rather than "uniting" with it.
Knowledge, or understanding, on the other hand, when it reaches its object - truth, does it in direct manner (intuition - insight) and does not need a
Medium as language is only used in an attempt to systematically articulate and relate this knowledge in order to overcome the confusion of reflective
mind, and so it "pacifies" it.
This is truth. Understanding and knowledge is universal and there is no real language for it. At best, you can use language to try and show and
give that person the understanding.
I often explain this with math. 1+1=2 is "language", and anyone can repeat that language. But to actually understand how to add and so forth,
there is no real language for that.
The father gives in understanding, knowledge and wisdom and that comes directly and without words. This is also why the holy spirit is said to speak
in "tongues", because it speaks and gives understanding in this way etc.
I'm sure each culture has their own names for these things, but what you said is very true on a level most people do not get.
Time is not real. To understand the nature of time and what it "is", I think you need to understand the perspective of the father(god), who is
"all knowing" and omni-present.
All knowing means that all possibilities exist as quantum physics states. Because if there was not a possibility that was known, then all would not
be known. As all is known, then there is no "change" between the 3 dimensions to create the illusion of "time".
This is like taking a movie film, and stretching it out and viewing all the film at once. When you take the movie film in that state, there is no
time in it. All is known at once etc. This is the perspective of the father. The entire movie in that view is like a single "time line".
You are the son, and you do not see the entire movie film at once and you are not all knowing etc. Thus, you see a movie in front of you with
"time". But time in this movie is nothing more than the change of 1 frame to the next. Thus the illusion of time, in movies and programs it's
called "run time".
As all possibilities exist, they are all side by side. The closest dimensions, or "alternate" time lines are right next to each other. You are
actually changing dimensions all the "time", because each dimension is just like that movie frame. Where as in the movie we are stuck in a
linear time line, based on what the director choose, in the universe where all is known, reality is not linear. But, it does appear to be linear and
such to us because we make a linear "path" across the dimensions.
The universe is actually "static" just like a movie film stretched out. What changes is our perspective and such. Consciousness, that which is
comes from the father is that which does all the observing, and the father is much greater than all of us because he is not only us, but much much
And what determines this path is the choices you make, and different cultures call that different things. Karma, reap what you sow and so on.
not directed towards the post I'm responding too:
This thread was overall disappointing I'm sorry to say. More about pushing a religion rather than about knowledge and so forth. If you are
hanging on to your "heritage", then you are not at all enlightened. If you consider yourself to belong to any such cultures or society, then you
are not enlightened. Because if you were enlightened, then you wouldn't be using such physical things and other peoples experiences and
accomplishments as a way of "defining" yourself. Truly, there is nothing enlightened about liken physical things and man made creations to
I think you have a misconception Poet1b. I, the Swami or the Aryans in general are not saying that time does not exist, only that it is not
The technical definition of something real means that is has a separate and independent existence. An illusion is not real because it does not have a
separate and independent existence, it is rather an appearance of something else. For example, the mirage is not real, because it is an appearance of
a lake. The mirage still exists, but it is not real.
Likewise, the empirical/physical world of space, time and energy exists, but it is not real. Space and time are contingent on ones observation,
without an observer, there is no space and time. They are merely categories of apperception which are imposed by the observer. However, they still
I think your misconception stems from you misunderstanding that the Aryan negation of the world to be ascestic like some schools of Buddhism. On the
contrary, Aryans fully admit the importance of the world and its various levels of existence. They fully admit that one must work for society in the
world, one must satisify their human needs(physical, emotional, intellectual, sexual, spiritual) and thus much to the contrary of being world denying,
they are world embracing. The Vedas and other Aryan literature like Celtic poetry hold in very high reverence mother nature and raise her to the
status of a goddess.
Back to space, time and energy, here is what the Aryans say about space- time in the Upanishad:
There was a learned man, called Bālāki. He wanted to parade his knowledge before an emperor called Ajātaśatru. Here was a learned man, proud
of his learning, thinking himself wise, imagining that he knew Brahman, a person born in the family of the sage Gārgya, and he went to the court of
king Ajātaśatru, and told the king: "I shall teach you Brahman." The king was highly pleased. "Well, I have a very good Master to teach me
What did the teacher tell? Bālāki, the learned man, spoke to the king by way of instructing him in the nature of Brahman. "Do you know how I
meditate on Brahman?" asked the scion of the Gārgya. "I meditate upon the sun as Brahman. You also do that meditation." But the king retorted
back; he did not accept this teaching. It so happened that the teacher went to the wrong disciple. The king, instead of saying, "I thank you, I shall
meditate upon the sun as you instructed me," gave him back in his own coi "Do not speak to me like this. This is not the way I meditate." The king
said so, because he seemed to know something more than the teacher himself. "I also meditate upon the sun, but not as you tell. The reason is that
the sun is only a conditioned form, and you are considering this conditioned form as the Absolute. This is not the way in which it should be
contemplated. There is a reality behind the sun. I meditate upon that. There is a general reality behind the particular form, the sun. Why not
meditate upon that instead of the particular form? It could have taken many forms other than the sun, and so if you resort yourself to that general
being behind the form, naturally you would be in the realisation of every other form. You will have every form under your control. Now, how do I
meditate on the transcendent support of everything? There is an energising vitality behind the sun. That is what I meditate upon, the King of all
beings." Sūrya, or the sun, is held by the Veda as the eye of all creatures, the Ātman or the very Self of all beings.
So, Gārgya had failed, but he said: "Well, then I have something else to tell you. I meditate on space itself as Brahman. You follow this
instruction. Space is all-pervading; Brahman is all-pervading. So space can be regarded as a symbol of Brahman, which is omnipresent." "Do not speak
to me like this." This is what Ajātaśatru, the king, said. "I contemplate space in a different manner, not the way you say. How do I meditate?
Pῡrṇam apravartīti: I contemplate on plenitude and immobility. That is the priority in the character of space itself. What is space? It is a
completeness of perception, and it is an immobility. Everything moves, but space does not move. It is fullness. If you contemplate fullness or
infinitude, space is included in it. So, why go for the manifested form of space? I contemplate on that which is prior to the manifestation of space,
the Supreme Bhūma, the fullness of Being, the immobile Reality."
In this dialogue whatever object the teacher presents to the king as Brahman is rejected by the king, because everything the teacher presents is just
an empirical object. The king reminds the teacher each time and that which lies further beyond the objects the teacher presents.
What about Shemites and the Romfolks (Gypsies)? What about them? Where do these people fit in to your system of ancient pride and lost world heritage
and power? And connecting the swastica with an ancient Indian noble caste or social class is straight out spurious. The swastica is in India a symbol
of life and the sun. They paint it inside their palms with henna or red ocre clockwise on one hand and counter clockwise on the other and when they
fold their hands this symbolise completeness and fulfillment. It has nothing to do with the Aryans. As far as I know the Aryans were a Christian
mystic movement in the first centuries AD whom the Catholics managed to kill off together with the Gnostics and the Kathars, the Copts and so on. You
should check your sources...
So I am not sure why you are trying to draw some difference between the 2
There are no differences between the two. Jesus was a true Aryan, and tried to awaken the people living under the Abrahmic tyranny. Why else do you
think he was crucified? The early Christians espoused Aryan values and Aryan teachings as taught by Jesus, why else do you think they were persecuted
and driven out of the state?
The Christianity that later took root was a complete perversion by the Abrahmic elite. Have you ever wondered why the Old Testiment is accepted as a
part of Christianity, and yet it was exactly the Old Testimant religion that Jesus rejected? What Christianity really is is a religion based on the
distortion of the real life teachings of Jesus, used for ideological control. This is why it was adopted by Constantine as the state religion
Yep, the Gnostics were Aryans. Much of Western Gnosticism is based on Platonism. Platoism in turn is based on Hinduism and Buddhism and Hinduism and
Buddhism are both based on Aryan religion or Vedic religion.
The Pagans and the Gnostics are one and the same people. They have all descended from Aryans.
By the way the Gypsies are the Indians. Look it up.
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