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Police say mom ordered daughters out, drove off

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posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
 


It breaks the trust because she did not come back for her. The child can no longer trust that the mother will always be there for her and keep her safe.

No it did not cause the child to have more respect for her, it has probably caused her to fear that if she does not obey every order her mother will abandon her.

A child should obey their parents, but they should do so out of love, respect, and the knowledge that they will be disciplined if they do not. They should not be forced to obey the parents out of a fear that the parent will abandon them if the do not obey.

There is a big difference between fear of consequence and fear of abandonment.

I was also the one who handled the discipline, being a single parent and my boys love and trust me because they knew that they could always depend on the fact that no matter what i would always be there for them. But then again i never abandoned my children in the middle of the street as i'm pretty sure you didn't either. It's not about the point she was trying to prove, it's about the fact that she didn't just go around the block to teach her a lesson, she didn't come back for her.


I'd like to see just how many that say that she didn't do anythnig wrong would be singing a different tune had the story read "Mom kicks daughters out of car, ten year old daughter has been found molested and murdered" ?




posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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That still does not explain why my 4 children trust me with their saftey and know that I will not abandon them in a time of dire need. I have done very similar things but yet my children trust me. Did you do something similar and your children don't trust you anymore? If not then you are going off of what some one else is telling you will or will not affect your child's mental state. Mine is from experience so where are you drawing your theory from? Most of what proffesionals tell you is bias to their beliefs and is usually derived from over exaggerated experiences as a youth, very rarely is it ever the truth to what a reaction would be. I hear all the time my parents spanked me, I didn't like it so I won't do that to my children. But yet when asked if they like who they are and what they have become they always say yes, I am a good person. The choices thier parents made molded their future selves.

I won't negate that bad things happen to children everyday. Usually they are well planned out and are not spur of the moment abductions. Show me a news story where a parent dropped off their children because they were behaving badly and then the child was abducted.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by chise61
 


But everything you are saying is conjecture, you have no idea what the real situation was? Maybe the 10 year old refused to get back into the car. Maybe the girls were fighting to the point that the mother could no longer safely drive the car? Maybe the mother did drive around the block and the girl was already gone, which is why she wound up calling the police to report her missing after she couldn't find her? Maybe the ten your old is a serious problem child who told a bunch of lies to the judge?

As far as child abduction goes, Amber, the girl the alert system is named after, was kidnapped from her own room. YOu can't protect your child all the time. At what point do you draw the line. Any time you are watching your child and you turn your back on them you are guilty of child endangerment? As a child, I ran the neighborhood without parental supervision like all the kids where I grew up. That used to be normal. At what point does keeping our kids constantly under supervision cause more harm than good? I suspect we passed that point a while back.

The fact that the judge put out an order where the mother couldn't see her kids clearly shows that this wasn't an automatic, normal situation, and unless they have something more substantial, I doubt if the woman will be found guilty, and too bad the judge can't be punished for sticking her nose in where it doesn't belong.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
 


Have you kicked your children out of your car in the city, out of anger and not gone back to pick them up ? If you have not done the exact same thing you can not compare the two.

No i did not, and if you read my first post you will see where i have already stated that i never have and never would have done that to my children. Since you have obviously read my reply to you then you know that i have already stated that my boys trust me. Actually my sons are full grown men now 27 & 29 and my oldest has two children that he trusts me with everyday of their lives.

And while i have never done this to my children i have had something similar done to me by my mother so i know from a child's experience how a parent can unknowingly commit an act that causes a child to lose trust in them.

I'd be hard pressed to show you a story of a parent that abandoned (abandon;to leave without intending to return) their child out of anger and the child was abducted because i can't seem to find any other story of a parent abandoning their child under those same circumstances. And i'm quite sure that you are familiar with the concept that just because something did not happen does not mean that it could not happen. So yes she did put her child in danger by what she did.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Parents do and have used that method of attitude adjustment for centuries I promise it is done everyday. So what you are saying is that because you parents did this to you, you are now not a whole person? I grew up in a big city, I am well aware of the lifestyle. Even in the late 80's we would walk to school about amile every day. Alot of us children did that. None of us were abducted nor did we loose sleep because our parents wouldn't spoil us with a ride. You see I am not saying your children don't trust you but you are telling me mine won't. I am telling you they do trust me. You still aren't proving what you are stating. How are my children so different from everyone elses that they would trust me after using similar methods?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


No the ten year old did not refuse to get back into the car (according to the articles that i have read) the twelve year old chased and caught up to the car and was let back in. The mother then proceeded to drive back home with the twelve year old and report the ten year old missing.

www.examiner.com...

If the girls were fighting to the point that the mother could no longer drive safely then she should've pulled the car over and gotten them under control, not put them in potential danger by kicking them out and leaving, she is supposed to be an adult capable of dealing with her children.

If she went back around the block to get her and found her gone why would she go all the way home before calling the police, why didn't she call the police as soon as she couldn't find her ? Time is of the essence when a child goes missing i'm sure that as a parent she knows this.

Why do you keep focusing on a judge ? The judge did not have the mother jailed and the child did not speak to a judge before the mother was arrested, she spoke to the police. And again why do you turn the wrong of the parent against the child ?

So was Polly Klass i chose not to bring up those kind of abductions as the child was not left unattended at home, she was left unattended outside.

There is a big difference between a parent that allows their child outside to play unattended and one that throws them out of their car out of anger three miles away from their house. She obviously gave no thought to the potential dangers her child could possibly face , nor any thought to protecting her as is made obvious by her actions.

"The fact that the judge put out an order where the mother couldn't see her kids clearly shows that this wasn't an automatic, normal situation,,,"

You may be right, which is why i have already stated this,
"I have no idea why the judge issued a restraining order against the mother, perhaps there is a history that we are not made aware of that the judge is privy to. "

Could you please post a link to the article that you have read because i have not seen any mention of the judge being a woman in any of the articles that i have read.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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A part of this that isn't being said is how far away were they from the house. It would make sense if she was close enough to home to go home first to check and see if she went there prior to calling the police.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
 


I have never seen a parent kick their child out of the car in the city and drive off and not come back for them, that is not to say that it doesn't happen that is just to say that i have never seen it.

If we misbehaved in my Aunt's car she would threaten to pull the car over and believe me she wasn't going to kick us out when she pulled over. With five children bickering in her car never did she abandon us in the street, nor did my cousin with her kids, nor any of my friends, nor did any of my nieghbors, i don't think (based on the people that i know) that it is as common experience as you believe it to be.

No what i'm saying is that i have trust issues because of things that my mother has done, i don't have parents i have a mother.

I also grew up in a big city and i walked to and from school in the 60,s and 70's in Chicago. And because of things that happened i chose not to let my boys walk to and from school by themselves in the 80's so i walked with them, doesn't make me a better parent, just means i had a different approach.

I haven't said that your children won't trust you.

You keep saying that you use similar methods which would suggest that you have never kicked them out of your car in the city three miles away from your home and proceeded to drive home without them, leaving them to fend for themselves.

Some of the articles that i read do state that she was kicked out of the car three miles away from the house, so it wouldn't make sense for her to go home before calling the police as i seriously doubt that her ten year old daughter could walk the three miles to the house in the time it took the mother to drive around the block.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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The article didn't state that she didn't come back. Anyways 3 mile for 2 girls I can see why she might think that the girl was on her way home. Yes they do that in the cities. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I didn't see murders everyday in the big cities but it happend. Some people are really trying to vilianize this women when she did not do anything too bad. Who made you the supream law of the land so as to judge this woman for her parenting actions? I would have do deal with the children first had to see what was needed in order to correct their bad behavior. She may have made the best decision possible. What it really boils down to is it is none of your buisness nor the governments. She did nothing that intentionally nor with in any reason abused or hurt those girls. They got a little scared thats it. Next time I bet they get quiet when she threatens to let them out.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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I have to wonder about these changing story lines. I think it is possible that there are people filling in details on their own. The only people who know what happened are the mother and the girls, and I doubt they are talking. This then leaves the police who have the girls version, and it is doubtful that they are talking as well. Chance are that only the original story is accurate.

It would have only taken her ten minutes to drive home, why would she then call the police right away. How do they know that the mother didn't call the police from her cellphone. I'll bet the final story will be quite different.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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You may very well be right. I really do want to see the final story on what happend. Th story has changed from one media outlet to the other. I wonder why they cannot get their facts straight.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
The article didn't state that she didn't come back. Anyways 3 mile for 2 girls I can see why she might think that the girl was on her way home.


There are other articles that state that the mother proceeded to drive home with the 12 year old, leaving the 10 year old behind, i've already posted a link to one of them, but i'll post it again.

www.examiner.com...

Three miles (24 city blocks or more, depending on the length of the blocks) is kind of a long way for a scared 10 year old to walk by herself (maybe 45 minutes or longer to walk it), especially when it's in a different suburb, or city, i'm not familiar with NY so i'm unsure if these places are city's or suburbs.


It's also a long way for a scared 10 year old that apparently doesn't know her way home. The little girl told the police that her mother forced her out of the car on Post Rd. and South Broadway, in White Plains. The family lives at 36 Olmstead Rd. in Scarsdale. She was found on Mamaronek in White Plains. Now i'm not familiar with NY so i used Mapquest, and if you do the same you will see that not only was it quite a long walk for a 10 year old, but that she was heading in the total opposite direction from her house. I will post a link, but am unsure if it will go to the directions and map that i used.

www.mapquest.com... =NY&2a=36+Olmsted+Rd&2z=10583-3042&2y=US&2l=40.999596&2g=-73.793236&2v=ADDRESS#a/maps/l::E+Post+Rd+&+S+Broadway:White+Plains:NY:10601:US:41.03047:-73. 76247:intersection::1/l::36+Olmsted+Rd:Scarsdale:NY:10583-3042:US:40.999596:-73.793236:address::1/m::10:41.01445:-73.777791:0:::::/io:1:1:1::1:f:EN:M: /e


This article talks about where she was forced out and where she was found, as well as the fact that the police searched the area for her (her being the mother) and could not find her. Also that the mother did not contact the police in White Plains where she left her daughter, but in Scarsdale where she lives. Seems to me that it would make more sense to call the police in the town where you last saw the child as they would have a better chance of finding her, especially since the police from Scarsdale could not even go look for her in White Plains, something that i'm sure she, as an attorney, would be well aware of. But hey maybe it was actually about more than just teaching them a lesson.

lohud.com...




Yes they do that in the cities. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I didn't see murders everyday in the big cities but it happend.



Did you have a problem comprehending what i wrote ? Because i specifically said,

"I have never seen a parent kick their child out of the car in the city and drive off and not come back for them, that is not to say that it doesn't happen that is just to say that i have never seen it."




Some people are really trying to vilianize this women when she did not do anything too bad. Who made you the supream law of the land so as to judge this woman for her parenting actions?


I could ask you the same question, being as we are both judging her, we just have different judgements that's all. Are you more entitled to your opinion than i simply because your opinion is that she did nothing wrong and mine is that she did ? If you feel that i am wrong to judge her then so are you, just because you find yourself in her favor does not make you judging her any less wrong.


Oh i see it's now considered good parenting to force your 10 year old child out of your car, 3 miles away from your house, in an unfamiliar area to find her own way home when you know full well that she has no idea how to get home from there. You may believe those are good parenting actions but i do not.

You know if you didn't want to discuss this with an open mind, if you merely wanted a biased thread full of only those that agree with you then you should have stated that in your OP.





What it really boils down to is it is none of your buisness nor the governments.


Well you sure do think that it's your business now don't you since this is your thread


And in some way you must think it to be other people's business or else you wouldn't have posted this thread. Or do you think it only the business of those that share your viewpoint


She made it the government's and the public's business the minute she abandoned that girl in the middle of the street.



She did nothing that intentionally nor with in any reason abused or hurt those girls. They got a little scared thats it. Next time I bet they get quiet when she threatens to let them out.



Sure she did, she intentionally forced her daughters out of her car, intentionally allowed the 12 year old back in and took her home, while she intentionally left the 10 year old behind knowing that she didn't know her way home. Leaving your 10 year old child alone in a strange place to find their way home when you know they can't is emotional abuse. Heck i'd be quiet too if i knew that my mother didn't have a problem in the world abandoning me


She's damn lucky that little girl was found by a decent person that called the police, she could've never been found, or found dead.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by LeaderOfProgress
 


Unfortunately the link to the mapquest doesn't take you to the page with the directions and map that i pulled up. If you're at all interested to see the facts of the litttle girl being lost and going in the complete opposite direction form her house you'll have to get the streets and addresses from the LOHud link and pull it up on mapquest yourself.

I'm done with this thread, makes no sense since it seems that you are only interested in those who agree with your views.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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So how exactly are we supposed to punish children these days? If you spank them then you are being abusive. If you yell at them you are being abusive. If you use scare tactics like done in the story above, you are being abusive.

How can we punish bad behaviour without being illegal?


As i see it the governemt and newer laws have made it impossible to punish your children. I live in a relatively small town ... about 40K and you can't walk the streets at night. Well i can because i'd just kill the little f#ckers but if they see something they want ... they kcik your ass and take it. Swarms of 8 to 10 of about 14 to 17 year olds.

Eventually ... and this is what is happening in our town the civilians take the law into their own hands and deal with the kids themselves. We have more teens and young adults end up in out-patience beat to hell than you can imagine. There are literally groups that go out at night and look for these trouble makers and kick their asses.

You might think that this response is only sinking to their level. But the parents are not allowed to do anything and the law refuses to. Fire with fire and an eye for an eye. I know for a fact at least a dozen of them have become model citizens because its too dangerous to play gangsta now.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by Shunsu]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
The article didn't state that she didn't come back. Anyways 3 mile for 2 girls I can see why she might think that the girl was on her way home. Yes they do that in the cities. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I didn't see murders everyday in the big cities but it happend. Some people are really trying to vilianize this women when she did not do anything too bad. Who made you the supream law of the land so as to judge this woman for her parenting actions? I would have do deal with the children first had to see what was needed in order to correct their bad behavior. She may have made the best decision possible. What it really boils down to is it is none of your buisness nor the governments. She did nothing that intentionally nor with in any reason abused or hurt those girls. They got a little scared thats it. Next time I bet they get quiet when she threatens to let them out.


The REAL abusers were the kids --- acting like maniacs while their mother tried to maneuver them thru traffic to wherever they needed to go. There is a lot of parent abuse going on these days, this mother had simply been abused to the point of saying NO MORE.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by chise61
 


The original story said that the older daughter caught up to her mother later. The link is here on the thread, the second page I believe, because the first link cut the story off for some reason, and didn't offer the full story.

Then later articles claim that the older daughter ran and caught up with the mother as she was driving away. These later articles don't cite a source for this information, they only put it out there as fact, which makes me question its credibility. Notice your most recent link quotes the police for one statement, and then starts another paragraph for the second claim about the older daughter running after the car.

If she was on Mamaroneck Avenue, then she could have been heading towards the Galleria, or towards home. I imagine this information could have came from the police report. Madlyn Primoff isn't giving out any information, so what are the sources of later information? A third possibility could be the guy who called the police from the ice cream shop, but once again, it is the girls story. Ten year old girls shouldn't obstinately stand by crying while her sister gets in the car, that is something more like what a six year old would do. If the mother did stop for the twelve year old who ran after the car, why wouldn't she wait for the ten year old?

You don't know if the mother didn't drive around the block. You don't know what happened at all, except that the mother ordered both girls out of the car, and the 12 year old succeeded in catching back up with the mom while the ten year old got someone to buy her ice cream. There is very little information available, and that information is not consistent.

We do know the police arrested the mother when she showed up at police headquarters, and that in my opinion was wrong. Remember the Salem witch trials when they burned to death a woman on the testimony of a child? Exactly how did this mother pose a threat to anyone to justify her being jailed, or a judge order preventing her from seeing her children? This is a clear situation where the local authorities over stepped their duties.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

This made me laugh. As previously stated - I had one child that from birth was determined to do it her way - no matter what - and is still that way.

Children are different. What works for one - won't work on another.

When this daughter was 6 - she did something that angered me to the point I turned her over my knee and spanked her several times.

She then stood up - turned to face me dry eyed and said: "Are you done?" Her sister age 9 - who had not done anything was crying hysterically - she cried for 3 days because I punished her sister.



Your younger daughter is obviously older than her elder sister; old spirits can be a royal pain when they wake up that early. Some of the problem is so many young/new spirits now. But the main problem is how we've allowed our timespace to be structured to fit corporate needs.

All children require discipline a various points, some more than others. applying discipline effectively requires both time and energy. Effective disicpline is preplanned: if this predictable behavior occurs, this shall be done. Thoughtful preplanning is based upon knowing the child's personality. That takes time and energy upfront, then more time and energy to structure the discipline in ways to insure that it need be applied as infrequently as possible. Actually applying it requires yet more time and energy. Most parents lack both, because we've been duped into accepting the idea that profit-making must come first at all times. Chances are that if you had the time and energy to spend knowing your children well enough to follow that discipline regimen, you'd never need to use it.

The standard work week was set in a far simpler time when there were fewer demands upon parents. Think of how much better off we'd all be if the standard work week was set at 28 hours providing a living wage floor.

Now that would be true change. Sigh, one can dream.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by apacheman]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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We just had an eight year old girl sexually assaulted and murdered, while she was going from one friend's house to another. This kid was unsupervised for only a few minutes, yet that's all it took for her to be taken and killed.

This mother dumped two young girls out on the side of the road. that was irresponsible, an unnecessary endangerment of those children. Sure, you can't chauffeur your kids around all the time, be there every minute to guard them. There are times when they'll need to be on their own. It's unavoidable. But this wasn't necessary. This was reckless.

If the mom wanted to punish the kids, she could have easily waited until they got back home to do it. They were only 3 miles away - a few minutes. Take them home, send them to their rooms, no TV, no Internet. Or whatever. Grounded for a week.

These kids were frightened and traumatized. They could easily have fallen prey to some nice man who cared about them and offered them a ride. They could easily have disappeared, only to show up in a suitcase or be found in a forest.

This was a dumb thing to do.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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That IS the problem with kids today. Too many parents afraid of what "THE LAW" will do. My kids respect me..they may not like me all the time or want to be my best friend, but they respect me. WHY? Because I learned, IF you tell your child "the NEXT time you do that..you will be hit, sent to room, lose privileges, etc." YOU HAD BETTER FOLLOW THROUGH! I see way too many parents say this time and time again and NEVER do anything about it. Let your kids take and inch and they will soon have the world, and you wrapped around their fingers!



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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The world is a dangerous place. There is nothing a parent can do to guarantee that their children will be safe from harm. In fact, by sheltering your kids, and never giving them a chance to take some risks and experience life, you might be depriving them of the survival skills they will need to make their way in this violent world.

Personally, I am not happy with court interference of this level. Guess what, the kids who become wards of the court through no fault of their own, usually aren't very well taken care of, so maybe these courts should start concentrating on taking care of their own rather than interfering in how parents raise their children. In fact, the country might be a better place if they concentrated on fighting crime instead of playing nanny.



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