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Police say mom ordered daughters out, drove off

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posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


LMAO. Damaged for life. I remember getting mouthy with my Mom once, she stopped the car and ordered me out. I walked home. I certainly wasn't damaged for life. In fact, if this "damages" a person "for life", I think the actual problem runs deeper than being kicked out of the car.




posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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I've threatened this myself many times. The closest I ever got was making my son get out of the car and walk about 3 miles home. (But I followed him in my car.)



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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My children were seldom spanked except when they were very little. By the time they were 5, they no longer needed spankings.

When they again go through their defiant period as teenagers they're really too big to be spanked and you have to get more creative with disciplining.

Being involved in your child's life prevents a lot of problems, I think. Letting them know they are loved even when they misbehave but that misbehavior won't be tolerated requires consistency.

Discipline is for the benefit of the one being disciplined. Punishment/abuse is for the "benefit" of the one punishing.

I've pulled over and told my kids they would have to walk home (once). Drove off about 100 feet but it was over a hill so the kids couldn't see the car. Got out and walked back to where they were and we all sat by the side of the road and I explained why it was dangerous for them to distract me while I was driving. They never did it again. We were out in the country and no other car even drove by while we had our "lesson". It's unthinkable to have done the same thing in a seedy area of a major metropolitan area.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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I understand what you mean about young kids, and I reckon I was probably about 6 maybe older the first time I got hit, but it wasn't for throwing attention grabbing hissy fits it was always for misbehaving. Breaking things, writing my name on things, not doing as I'm told (just being a general pain in the arse!) and I think thats where the authority needs to come in and it honestly taught me to not do those things, because I knew I'd be punished if I did.

It applies differently to every circumstance and I can understand some parents not doing it at all and getting the required results but some kids are just too unruly and a telling off is simply not enough, like I said my sister had just the tellings off and she's still majorly temperamental! (sp?) whereas I think near enough everything through a lot more rationally. Don't go in moods if I don't get what I want etc.

Fair enough I still have the odd explosion... but thats jus the way I am



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Times are different today - the streets are not safe.

As a grandmother - I raised 2 daughters. Not raising - but raised - completed the mission.

I did occasionally swat them with my hand. I did make them get out of the car once - while I drove around the block (I would NOT do that today).

My husband's grandfather left his home and abusive father at age 7 in Montana. He survived by sleeping in barns and doing odd jobs. There was a time when this was possible.

Today there is no recourse for the parent of an unruly or determined child. And don't give me "they weren't raised right". My youngest was one of those who from birth was gonna do it her way - no matter what. And she is still that way.

As barbarian as it may sound - - I support a military run school for teen children.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by Tippys Dad
 


Only just seen your post.. I was made to do exactly the same thing! The issue is the area though not the actual punishment. Personally I don't think I'd do it when I have kids but it certainly put me in my place


Annee

Your last idea.. would be ideal if the military could be trusted 100%

Unfortunately they aren't and some of the people who join are driven to bad things let alone teenagers left in their employ. My generation seems to be the last one with any rational thought processes and teenagers now are just too highly strung, in a situation where they had someone like a drill sargeant shouting at them they'd either shout back or break down and cry, then the sargeant is being done for abusive behaviour instead of the parents cos he doesn't have the responsibility to punish kids... we've gone full circle without even noticing


[edit on 22-4-2009 by ItsallCrazy]



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by ItsallCrazy
I understand what you mean about young kids, and I reckon I was probably about 6 maybe older the first time I got hit, but it wasn't for throwing attention grabbing hissy fits it was always for misbehaving. Breaking things, writing my name on things, not doing as I'm told (just being a general pain in the arse!) and I think thats where the authority needs to come in and it honestly taught me to not do those things, because I knew I'd be punished if I did.


This made me laugh. As previously stated - I had one child that from birth was determined to do it her way - no matter what - and is still that way.

Children are different. What works for one - won't work on another.

When this daughter was 6 - she did something that angered me to the point I turned her over my knee and spanked her several times.

She then stood up - turned to face me dry eyed and said: "Are you done?" Her sister age 9 - who had not done anything was crying hysterically - she cried for 3 days because I punished her sister.

I'm telling you - these two were like living in the entire spectrum of psychological testing. Fortunately we all survived and they are now raising their children.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by ItsallCrazy

Annee

Your last idea.. would be ideal if the military could be trusted 100%

Unfortunately they aren't and some of the people who join are driven to bad things let alone teenagers left in their employ. My generation seems to be the last one with any rational thought processes and teenagers now are just too highly strung, in a situation where they had someone like a drill sargeant shouting at them they'd either shout back or break down and cry, then the sargeant is being done for abusive behaviour instead of the parents cos he doesn't have the responsibility to punish kids... we've gone full circle without even noticing



I agree - but still believe it would be the best course.

There are way too many latch key kids - that never had security or sense of belonging - let alone guidance and discipline (this includes kids who's parents give them everything but a sense of value and responsibility). Key phrase - "If Done Right" - a military style school would be my best answer.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Crime is on the rise because parents can not effectively discipline children and neither can teachers and that is one of the major factors behind the abysmal standing the U.S. Educational System has in measuring it's output against other nations.

Spare the rod spoil the child is a sound premise. Children who do not learn emotional discipline are doomed to a slow takeoff in Adult hood and might not ever develop at all to the point where they can truly handle the emotional pressures of the business world.

Now while all the Johnnies and Suzies out there who are still fretting that Mommy and Daddy didn't hug you enough when you were growing up and that's why you are so screwed up and need to spend 100.00 a week on a therapist...I would contend you are screwed up because you are braindead and have not learned self discipline and emotional discipline yourself.

Rotten kids tend to make great parents, great kids tend to make rotten parents...

The states do not want you to effectively rear their cildren. That's right they are all the state's children, you are only granted custody of the state's property when they are born.

Simply put the Masters frown on the slaves damaging the other slaves.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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I read something about she should pay the price or whatever. I have to say that part makes my hair stand on end. There seems to be drilled into everyone this concept that peoples entire lives should be destroyed for tresspassing any small rule or change or law that TPTB dictate. Though I thoroughly disagree with what she did, I don't see it as a matter of paying for, but as a matter for education for both the mother and the daughters who are probably shocked. An investigation by good social workers to see how bonded this family is etc etc, perhaps. But you don't disturb important lifelong childhood bonds to family over things that a lot of people may due if mad enough and then change their minds. The ones that would pay the most, every time someone acted irrationally or made a mistake would be the children. Children need their parents, providing they're not monsters. Ordinary people make mistakes all the time. I don't like our legal system and believe in the heart of some of the laws, not the laws themselves.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by mystiq]



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Tippys Dad
reply to post by AccessDenied
 


LMAO. Damaged for life. I remember getting mouthy with my Mom once, she stopped the car and ordered me out. I walked home. I certainly wasn't damaged for life. In fact, if this "damages" a person "for life", I think the actual problem runs deeper than being kicked out of the car.

I wasn't talking about your personal circumstances.
An incident such as this, when done to a young child, can have damages, psychologically, that may not even occur right away but could appear later in life.
There could very well be much more underlying issues to this story and the drama behind closed doors.
Every child, deals with traumatic experiences differently. At my best guess, the damage this has caused is the relationship with her mother.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
I read something about she should pay the price or whatever. I have to say that part makes my hair stand on end. There seems to be drilled into everyone this concept that peoples entire lives should be destroyed for tresspassing any small rule or change or law that TPTB dictate.... I don't like our legal system and believe in the heart of some of the laws, not the laws themselves.


The woman certainly needs educating as do her children but I agree that when you get the legal system involved in private matters you only worsen the situation.

I had an incident with the courts years ago over something minor that my son got involved in. The judge wanted me to pay a fine. I refused saying that I had done no wrong. When the judge countered with "your son has done wrong and must pay" I answered that I fully intended to punish him for his part in the wrongdoing. He said "it's the court's decision, not yours". I said "if the court feels that they can raise my child then they're welcome to it and they might want to look into getting him braces for his teeth as well." The judge glared at me and said, "would you like to be served with a contempt of court order?" I asked if he'd like to be served with a writ of mandamus order. We sort of glared at each other for several seconds and then he dismissed the case against my son.

I'm sure I just got lucky but allowing courts to decide your parenting skills is a dangerous precedent. Btw, my son grew up to be just fine although I'm sure he would rather have had the courts punishment than mom's punishment.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


The only thing about this that I can see being psychologically damaging to the children is the fact that they had to deal with police, get taken away by child services and have their names splashed all over the media.

All this for a punishment that occurs to many many children on a daily basis around the world and has done so probably even before cars were invented - I'm sure more than a few kiddies got booted off the horse and carriage and were made to walk home way back yonder.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Well, from reading the article it sounds like to me that once again, the family custody people have over stepped their bounds, and continue to prove themselves to be the biggest problem in our society today. This whole nanny state where these family service people are allowed to have people arrested on a whim is doing far more harm than good.

Sounds like the police took both children away from the mother, and then most likely put them in some temporary foster care situation, where they are probably in far more danger than when they were on the street. I don't know how many of you are familiar with these foster home situations, but they are usually very bad places, where the girls will be living with children who often have been raised in the worse possible circumstances, and are the most likely to abuse others. Oh, and adult supervision will most likely be minimal, if any at all. You people who support the courts action in this situation really need to re-think things. We need massive changes in raising the bar on what allows courts to take children from parents.

Unless there is a reason be believe there is a real threat to the children in their home, children should never be taken away from their parents, especially in circumstances like this.

I notice they don't give any details about how this situation occurred, only a police version. The older daughter caught up with her mother? How's that, she ran down the car? I notice that they aren't charging the mother with abandonment, so chances are good that the mother drove around the block, and came back for the girls, or maybe went and parked the car, and met the girls, possibly at the location where she told them she was going to be.

Why didn't the 10 year old stay with her older sister, as she should have done? Could it be that the 10 year old decided that she was going to do whatever she wanted, and she went to the police to intentionally get her mother into trouble, because in today's nanny police state, she can do that. Heck, family courts encourage this behavior. In order to justify their jobs, the authorities are more than happy to interfere in the family, arrest people, file charges and all that. Arresting this girls mother was not in the best interest of the child, it only encouraged the child to continue to act like a child. You think your parents are abusing you? Call the police, fabulous. You now have government approval to be a spoiled brat. Let's not forget that these types of interferences in family matters has created a whole new industry.

I googled this place on the map, it is way out on Long Island, and I have been out in that area, and I would describe it as ritzy. They were only three miles from their 2 million dollar home, not being dropped off in the ghetto. In fact, they were being dropped off next to the Galleria, and the mall. Most likely it was in broad daylight, and the girls were in no danger at all. Maybe the bums do come out at night, but I bet the crime rates in that neighborhood are very low.

I have been around long enough to know people who were raised without any punishment, or at least without any real punishment where threats were backed up with consequences, and people who were raised with discipline, which meant physical punishments such as butt beatings. The kids who grew up with the psycho babble, don't spank your children, treat them like fragile little creatures, tended to grow up to be spoiled, extremely sensitive, dysfunctional adults, while the kids who grew up with discipline tended to be the most well rounded of people.

Sounds to me like the mother was trying to teach her kids a valuable lesson, and the police, by jumping to conclusions, only made the situation worse. Instead of arresting the mother, they should have told the ten year old, that next time she should stick with her older sister, and then turned the ten year old over to her mother. After a few days, or maybe even weeks, in foster care, I have to think the twelve year old is going to be very upset with her younger sister, in a way that she might not ever be able to forgive. Hopefully nothing happens to these girls while they are being held by the state.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


That 10 year old is damaged for life now because Mom threw a hissy fit and wielded her power over her children.


I doubt very seriously that this will classify as a life damaging experience.

If it does turn out that this is the worse thing that this children will experience in his entire life then he will truly have been blessed.

It is easy to judge others. I am willing to bet that there have been incidents in your life where you may have behaved less then admirably and would take offense at some outsider passing judgment on you whether you were right or wrong in the situation; and you would be right to feel that way.

I think that no matter how we feel about what we have been told about the mother's actions, she made clear that her word is to be taken seriously.

I think parents do more hard with idle threats and inconsistencies then caring through on a threat that may have been poorly timed.

Children most have discipline. The consequences should be clear and always consistent.

If your children can not trust what you say then why should they listen to you at all?



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

I googled this place on the map, it is way out on Long Island, and I have been out in that area, and I would describe it as ritzy. They were only three miles from their 2 million dollar home, not being dropped off in the ghetto. In fact, they were being dropped off next to the Galleria, and the mall. Most likely it was in broad daylight, and the girls were in no danger at all. Maybe the bums do come out at night, but I bet the crime rates in that neighborhood are very low.





I think your googling is off. White Plains is in Westchester County NY and is definitely NOT out on long island. And East Post Road in White Plains is certainly not the area you want to drop anyone off that is that young alone. No matter the situation.

East Post Road, White Plains NY



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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I'll give a little history on me an my children. At age 19 I married a lady that had 3 children from 2 other men. Shortly after we married she became pregnant. That equalls 4 children 2 of whom had lots of problems. I have used every method possible in order to bring about essential changes in their thought processes and emotional behaviour.

My children have been spanked, threatened, I have used both scare and embarassment tactics and even the soap in the mouth trick. The funny thing about it is my kids are all very different and like said above require different ways of dealing with each one, but yet they are OUTSTANDING students and are very respectfull to others. They do still get out of line, but now it doesn't take much to straighten them out. Usuall just a lecture does good enough. They do fight with each other, if it gets out of control I step in and deal a harsh punishment befitting the situation. MY CHILDREN LOVE ME SO MUCH. THEY ALSO KNOW THEY ARE LOVED.

I am their best friend until it becomes time for me to put on my parent hat and correct a defunct situation. They are not scarred in any way. My children have never needed a therapist nor have they ever needed drugs to alter their behavior.

A big problem in the world right now is everyone is scared to PROPERLY punish their children, or they have become TOO WEAK to do so. People need to stop reading books and listening to "profesionals" on how to raise their children, and start using their instincts. We were built with the automatic instincts that tell us for the most part what is needed to raise children properly. We need to start trusting those instincts and start doing our jobs.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater



Kids hate being trapped in a car being lectured. My boys wish I had spanked them, lol!


I have to agree the long lectures worked wonders. Our boys knew I was dead serious. We never spanked.

Imo this mother should have had a better relationship with her children before they got to age 10 & 12. She has her work cut out for her now with older children. She should have been dealing with her kids more productively when they were smaller. Seems like she's got a couple of out of control children who have no respect for her.

I feel sad for people whose children are beyond reach. We've been a country family and our isolation brought us closer. We had fun and really enjoyed our children. Sure they misbehaved and they knew when they were being butt heads. They could see how their behavior influenced the family harmony, pretty soon everyone's upset. The kids wanted to get back to the messing around & having fun but had lost their way in the fight. Sometimes parents have to lead them back without taking sides. Kids are glad when we take charge they want "strong pack leaders" to quote Ceser.

I know it's not funny but I gotta laugh when I think about disciplining children in the car. My sis-in-law had to get food stamps and went in to talk to her caseworker. Sitting at his desk he turned to look out the window and there was her husband & son in the car and her husband smacked the 3 year old. Well the caseworker was outraged and marched out to the car. He stuck his face in the window to tell off my bro-in-law when my nephew whacked this guy upside the head so hard his glasses went flying and he banged his head pretty good on the car. This guy picked up his glasses said "good luck" and went back in.
My nephew was a complete horror but he's much better now.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


Hmm, a writ of mandamus order, very interesting, I wish I had know that in my child custody hearing. Thanks for the information. My experiences with these family courts is that they are nothing but a racket.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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I'm going to point out here, that the link in the opening post is not the same article as quoted, nor the one I originally commented on.
That article reads as such..

The 10-year-old was found by a "Good Samaritan" on the street, upset and emotional about losing her mother, police said.

Source..here. abcnews.go.com...
That is why I made the comment about the child being damaged.
Why is the link now different in the OP?
It is misleading to others now reading the thread.



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