Police say mom ordered daughters out, drove off

reply to post by AccessDenied


Very good question about the link. It is interesting how the story has changed on an official news site. Hmm media manipulation. You got to love it. Thanks for the new link. I will add it to the OP.

Back to the subject at hand. Just because a child is emotionally upset does not mean that they are damaged for life. If that was the case then when children get into arguments or fights and become upset then they are becoming scarred for life. I do not buy it. Upset does not mean damaged or scarred. Kids are tougher than most people think. They don't damage that easily. However they do pick up bad habbits real easy. Those need to be corrected before they become routine.

reply to post by poet1b


I think the courts are too corrupted to try that anymore although it is still legally an option. I haven't noticed that the courts pay much attention to what's legally required of them.

I filed a contempt case against my ex for not paying his share of the court ordered joint bills. His testimony was, and I quote, "Yes, I was ordered to pay that money; yes, I owe that money; I just don't feel like I should have to pay it." He was found not guilty of contempt.

Tell me money did not change hands there. Courts are not interested in the "best interests of the child". They are interested in clearing their docket.

Social workers are too overburdened to devote proper attention to each individual case and many of the cases should never have been brought to the attention of a social worker anyway.

My middle child once threatened to call the police on me for grounding her to her room for an entire Saturday. I told her to "go ahead. They'll haul you off to some juvie jail where you'll most likely get beat up by really rotten kids and I'll have to go take a nap in parenting class for a few weeks. Which of us do you think will get the worst end of that deal?"

reply to post by vkey08


Oops, I didn't pull the map back far enough. I have never been in that area, don't know what it is like.

If it really is a bad area, then the foster care situation is probably going to be even worse. Taking the girls away from her mother is still extremely wrong in these circumstances.

How did the twelve year old catch up to her mother? Sounds like the mother went around the block. Why didn't the ten year old stay with her older sister?

What ever people want to imagine about how this mother raises her children, it doesn't change the fact that the actions of the police and the court are wrong in this situation, and are only making the matter worse.

Who knows...maybe the little twerps deserved to be left by the side of the road.

reply to post by whitewave


Wow, they didn't make your ex pay? Well, since getting caught up in that system, and educating myself and getting involved in rights movements in these areas, it seems these court systems are really messed up, and you never know what they will do. I have heard some real horror stories. Where I live, in my opinion, and most of the people I have talked to, the whole child custody system mainly exists to bilk people out of money, and provide jobs. Every case is a charge number.

The four times I was at the Evaluators area, I saw some crazy things going down, people being dragged into offices on the whims of a child or an extremely demanding parent. The two evaluators I met with, were both in my opinion, seriously wacked out people, with major power trips.

I have also heard nothing but bad stories about foster care situations. The last place you want your child to go to is a foster care home. Most kids would rather live on the streets than in a foster care home, that is how bad it is.

People eager to see courts intervene in families have no clue in my opinion.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by vkey08

 

Oops, I didn't pull the map back far enough. I have never been in that area, don't know what it is like.

If it really is a bad area, then the foster care situation is probably going to be even worse. Taking the girls away from her mother is still extremely wrong in these circumstances.

How did the twelve year old catch up to her mother? Sounds like the mother went around the block. Why didn't the ten year old stay with her older sister?

What ever people want to imagine about how this mother raises her children, it doesn't change the fact that the actions of the police and the court are wrong in this situation, and are only making the matter worse.

It sounds like a lot of this story is not being told and that is why I refuse to comment on the culpability of the mother's actions.

I have worked with neglected and abused children and from my experience they are useless extremely protective and unwilling to place any blame on the abusive or neglectful parent. They are usually extremely loving and attentive to the parent.

On the other hand, spoiled and over indulged children are usually just the opposite. They are extremely critical of their parents and are quick to lodge complaints against them and the complaints most often are over exaggerated. They often take the stance of the abused and will do almost anything to make the parent feel remorseful, attempting to force them to actively seek their forgiveness and to make reparations.

We do our children no favors when we treat them like Gods and Goddesses. Life will not see them that way and they will be ill prepared. Their understanding of the world in which they live and their responsibility as productive citizens of their society becomes distorted and their view of happiness becomes illusionary.

They don’t need friends. They need parents. Many of us have done a really poor job of raising and preparing our children for the real world. Our children deserve better.

For those who have stated that the courts get too involved and do more harm then good, could not be more on the spot with their observations. The filing of the protective order and the fear that went into taking those girls to a "foreign" environment by force, did way more damage than anything the mother did. The worst the police should have done is lecture the mother on not doing it there but maybe driving to the countryside and doing it. Maybe her choice in location wasn't the best, but her actions were not criminal at all.

Originally posted by Kryties
Quite frankly my parents gave me the wooden spoon (or ruler - whatever was the handiest) on many occasions and I am no worse off for it, in fact I learnt my lesson well on many occasions. I have also been turfed out of the car and left to walk home on two occasions that I remember.

As far as I am concerned I will punish my kids the way I see fit - if that extends to using a wooden spoon then so be it (within reason of course, I wouldnt hit them so hard as to bruise or cause damage - just to give them a little shock). NOBODY has the right to tell me how I should or should not punish my children for being naughty. Law be damned, cops be damned, Childrens Services be damned - half of them don't have kids anyway so don't even have a remote clue on how to manage children.

Oh yeah, and for everyone that's about to call me names and have a go at me for saying what I have just said - I simply do not care what you think.

Ok mate,I know you dont care what I think so Im gonna way in here,try reason,I have a 6 yr old that Ive never hit and she is a very well behaved girl.I explain to her that when she does this ,this happens and she can see for her self that the end result could have been different and LEARNS not to do it again.Sure she has tantys like all kids but all yout teaching your kids to do is solve there problems with violence,and if there boys that very dangerous.I refuse to be outwitted by a 6 yr old and resort to violence,try it.

Reasoning only works with some kids. As a whole and like stated before in this thread, each child is different. What works for your child might not work for others. If every child was the same then yes you could use the same means of discipline. They are not. The core problem is that everyone is trying to say that only one way works. This is not the case. I have a daughter that all you have to do is say you are upset at her and she cries. I have a boy that only understands intimidation. You have to be adaptive if you want to raise your children right.

Hopefully the little darlings learned a lesson from it at least, and will behave, especially when they are passengers in a car. Yeah the mom lost her cool and somewhat endangered them, but their unruly behavior endangers all of them including innocent people in other vehicles.

My kids never fought in the car. I started training them as soon as they were old enough to point to keep a watch out for cops/radar. They are 26 and 28, and to this day I don't believe either one has ever had a traffic ticket.

LOL.. I trained my boy the same. Best ticket avoider ever is your eyes. Radar detectors are a crutch that doesn't always work.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


I taught my two boys to use the clock system for locations: it was pretty funny to hear a two-year-old say "mom, the heat's at three ocwock"

Thirty years ago you could let your kid walk home with reasonable assurances that they would arrive safe. Nowadays, I think that's taking too big a chance. After all, you don't want to lose your child permanently for the sake of a little backseat argument.

I'd say it was ill-advised for her to leave them. However, I do think that parents should be able to physically discipline their children without fear. As long as it doesn't cross the line to abuse.

Originally posted by TheComte
Thirty years ago you could let your kid walk home with reasonable assurances that they would arrive safe. Nowadays, I think that's taking too big a chance. After all, you don't want to lose your child permanently for the sake of a little backseat argument.

I'd say it was ill-advised for her to leave them. However, I do think that parents should be able to physically discipline their children without fear. As long as it doesn't cross the line to abuse.

A lot more has come out on this story from our local news here in Westchester. Now I know a lot of the CPS workers here and I know that in this case they even wouldn't have claimed it was abuse or neglect, but the courts are trying to use this woman as an example. We have a DA here in Westchester that is following in Jeninne Pierro's disastrous footsteps and seems more like she wants to get on the news and make the news than go after the real problems we have in this county.

Like I said in an earlier post this may not have even been an issue with anyone had it not been done on the road she did it.

I think she just got fed up. It can happen, I don't think it makes her a bad mom. I would have to see her on the other 364 days of the year to make a judgement, plus find out if there were any extensive circumstances for her actions. What if she just found out she had breast cancer, or the husband is cheating, who knows. It's no excuse for letting your two kids walk home by themselves, but it might help us understand her full frame of mind.

I am just glad the kids are safe, and I am guessing they will sit quitely in the car from now on.

Please do pray tell why you think that a child should not be allowed to walk home. There is not a thing wrong with a child walking, if anything it is the best thing people can do for their shut in children these days. Too much artificial entertainment, not enough physical activities.

I undestand this may not have been the best area to do it but it was far from neglect or abandoment in any case. The worst thing that should have happened was a stearn talking to by the police to the mother. The situation has gone too far and should not have resulted in protective orders or suspension of parental rights. PERIOD.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


The same people taking offense to this mother's non-physical attempt at trying to teach her children that actions have consequences are the same ones that complain about children that are not disciplined and throwing temper tantrums and wrecking havoc whenever things do not go their way.

The kids that destroy other people's property, that steal or attack innocent people or go on shooting sprees because life is not bowing down to them and worshiping their arrogant little behinds they way that Mom and Dad have done their whole lives.

Every child is the product of a home and a community. There is no such thing as a perfect life; no matter how much we may want it for ourselves or our children. It does not exist. We feed our children lies and illusions and then we expect them to one day be fully grown, leave home and live life as perfectly content and productive citizens.

Who is more out of touch with the real world and reality; us or our children?

Im a mom. And no matter how my child behaves, I will NEVER EVER leave her somewhere like that. Not in this day in age. There are just so many things that can go very wrong that could be avoidable. I, as a responsible parent, would never take that risk.

If others do, so be it. But never will I.

Originally posted by mystiq
The opposite happens when you show such a lack of concern for your child's wellbeing.

However, being heartless or mean to children creates mean teenagers. The object is to turn out children who love others, not authoritareans. That was abandonment.

I'm in complete agreement.

If you read the second story, the 10 year old was lost and the mom called the police station later to report she was "missing."

Right. After kicking your kids out of the car, you wait awhile and then call the cops to report them missing. If anger makes someone do stupid things like that, then they are in serious need of an anger management class.

That's not punishment. That's psychotic. It won't turn them into better kids (better parenting might). I'm sure they are wondering if NEXT time they do something that she doesn't like (not clean up the room, maybe) if they'll be thrown out onto the streets.

Too many kids are kicked out of their homes. I've known a few of them. That woman needs anger management classes and parenting classes on how to learn better discipline methods.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Byrd]