You are being lied to about pirates

So if this all happening why the fact there are no photos of the the hundreds of barrels etc washed up on the beaches.
No medical photos, reports etc from groups like Greenpeace, MSF Doctors.

Just because some large paper prints an article e.g. the The Times ( the same paper that said the UN compound in Gaza was bombed - NOT)

At the end of the day evidence needs to be produced not hearsay.

I don't know if someone else said this yet, mainly because I didn't read the whole thread. I blame the vicoden or the sickness. But I read yesterday that the money for the ransom and the sat phone calls have been traced both back to Europe, Canada and the U.S. If some of these insurance companies or even the shipping companies need money, why not use Africa. Everyone else has. It's a shame really. When I was stationed in Djibouti, there were ton's of refugee's coming from Somalia. The Djiboutian's would round em all up, drive up near the border, which was only about 10 miles away from the base and make them walk back. We couldn't ever patrol near the border because they would sometimes take pop shots at us from their gun trucks. We wanted to, but starting another war wouldn't be a good idea... What a mess. (To clarify, we would not go with the Djiboutian Air Force or Army when this happened.)

If you believe that the Piracy issue in Somalia is a farce, then you are utterly naive about the situation of that Nation. Somalia is dirt poor, even by African standards, and when you speak to others from Kenya, Ethiopia, Sudan, etc., they all hold the same view of that shambled country, and that is that it is in fact a Lawless land full of and run by Terrorists, Murderers, Rapists, Drug Dealers, and the likes.

So, therefore, it is obvious that individuals residing within such a locale will hold no respect for the Property of others, and the means by which they take and make Money. Combine this with their Coastal makeup, and you suddenly have a situation RIPE for Piracy.

As for this weak attempt at turning the Victims into the Suspects, realize that the latest American ship which the Pirates hijacked was sailing 300 Nautical Miles away from the wasteland of Somalia, and was FAR into International Waters. There are no excuses for such actions, and anyone defending or ignoring the Piracy, or wishing to turn it into a Conspiratorial situation, seriously needs to delve into the Reality of much of Africa.

reply to post by News And History

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Let me explain something to you.


This is the real world. Somalia doesn't want to be part of the international community. So screw them. It's as simple as that. If you don't want to be part of the social contract with all the benefits and responsibilities that come along with it, then let them subsist independently...

It's a rough world... They better get used to it.

ok if the claims are true [ illegal fishing / waste dumping ] - then why are no trawlers or dumpers pirated ?

exploiting a country is one thing, the only problems i have with what they're supposedly doing is the dumping of toxins in the waters. i'd be more comfortable knowing that we were dumping our toxins on their land, water doesn't stay in one place. hopefully there was research into the ocean currents in the area to make sure the toxins stay in the area. people need to realize that most moral virtue is the real form of control today. crying out about civil liberties on a world scale is like beating a dead dog, the world is going to see many more "injustices" before it can even begin to reconcile it's nature back to a more sustainable equilibrium, and practicing the remnants of docile bible morality isn't going to get you from point a to z.

I wouldn't justify pirating no matter how cool Johnny Depp makes it look.

My point in all of this is that the lawlessness and pirating are a direct result of greed, exploitation and poverty. Those to blame seem to be one of the former leaders of Somalia (or at least his representatives) and the companies of foreign nations that have made deals to rid themselves of toxic waste in the waters of another country. The leaders are responsible and the people are the victims.

As to why no trawlers or dumpers have been hijacked...how should I know?
That doesn't change the fact that they were clearly there fishing and dumping waste in the past and probably the present.

I doubt every vessel gets pirated but surely you can't believe that this one is the first because it made it to CNN?

Considering the situation it's highly probable there have been many more pirated vessels that you have never heard about simply because the MSM wasn't interested in it.

Unless you are prepared to do some serious digging, it's all up to what the MEDIA is willing to SHOW you. What happened to that Captain happens quite often.

Also to those doubting this claim...is it REALLY that hard to believe that an unscrupulous company would be willing to dump toxic waste in fishing or drinking waters?

There have been quite a few companies in America in the past found guilty of doing the very same thing in their own backyard! As I recall, over a time, it led to serious illnesses and even death for some of the communities that were left unaware of the toxins.

Yeah...they do that folks.
That is the real world.

- Lee

Yes, because the Pirates are using these millions and millions of Ransom money to fix their coast line..

/SARCASM

You have my vote. I also shook at my head at the statement about satellites and the ability to track all the ships in that area and know what they are up to. What total trash! Extrapolating the ability to read a newspaper from space to knowing what every unmarked ship in the sea is doing is dumb. Ever heard of field of view? Do the ships have a banner readable from space saying "we are pirates about to attack that ship 5 degrees north of here?".

This thread is sadly lacking a dose of reality but it is certainly full of paranoid delusions about NWO.....again!

Guess what folks: There really are people in this world who want to steal money from others rather than put in a hrad days work DUH!!!

I agree that Somalia needs to get on the band wagon with the rest of the world, but that's just not gonna happen. I could try to look at this in a compassionate way, saying the pirates are taking the money because it is the way of the country for as long as most can remember. A warlords way of doing business, by force and if you don't like it your dead. But the Truth is these guys are only in it for themselves. I heard recently that these guys are somewhat of a national hero, and the women are going in hoards down to the pirate towns, because it would be like getting hitched to a famous athlete here in the U.S. I am proud that we were smart about waiting till the last possible moment, when desperation was running high, creating a fog of war scenario. The guys need to be dispatched. Furthermore I would not be surprised at all if the money was going to help the Jihad Movement. Whether they claim they are Christians or not. Possibly doing a job to pay off ransom. Regardless I just hope the next time they don't get on the ship and become international news. I would like to have them as nothing more than Pink Mist in a Memory. As for being scared into becoming a pirate, I hope the next time they choose to fight back if that is indeed the case.

I would like to pose a question for all of you "pro-pirate posters." When was there ever a time that Somalia was prosperous? Since when did this become a great nation of fisherman? People on this thread are acting as if Somalia was a nation whose staple was supplying their country with lobster. Get over that idea. It is a country of herders. Their main export was livestock. To suggest that somalian pirates are comparable to robin hood is insane. If these pirates were trying to stop the "west" from fishing...then why not hyjack fishing boats? The majority of the boats taken over are cargo ships, with mechandise on them, not fishing boats. Why would they take these ships hostage? The Millions of $$$ that they're worth. Where does that money go? I suppose if it was a real Robin Hood type situation it would go back to the impoverished villagers that the pirates are claiming to protect. BUT!!!! that's not the case...the money is going back to the very people that keep any type of government out of Somalia...the same people that are calling themselves pirates, are the same people that take over Red Cross supply trucks, and first aid vehicles. These people do this for POWER not for their neighbors!

Blackwater, or Xe or X whatever they're called arrived in October while Paulson, Bernanke and Bush were fear mongering about the economy.

Blackwater sends warship to Gulf of Aden

I find it amazing that the pirates are vilified yet we don't know the whole story. THere have been reports of illegal dumping of chemicals and radioactive material and somehow people dismiss that. THere have been reports that trollers are illegally fishing in their waters, and people dismiss that.

Nuclear Waste Dumping the Cause for Pirate's actions?
Link

The Poor Fishermen of Somalia
Link

Does it not strike you as odd that a large contingent of nations, some once bitter enemies, are all at the same location coordinating efforts to fight piracy? Does it not strike you as odd that the most advanced military might on the planet from as many as 15+ nations are fighting from 2 to 15 poorly fed somali's in a dingy or small boat(s)?

Is it not strange that China sent a ship(s), for the first time in 500 or so years leaving their local waters?

Gee, I wonder what we would say if say, russia started dumping barrels of chemicals of our waters. Or what our reaction be if Chinese trollers started fishing off our California Coast near Catalina or San Pedro?

In my view, this is a distraction from something else that is not being covered by the MSM. We'll find out soon enough I suppose. Think about the Plane landing in the Hudson? what was happening at the same time? Or the AIG bonuses, what else was going on? ... let's see $825 Billion ring a bell, how about the $1.3Trillion budget?

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the violence on either side. I for one reserve judgment until we know more or are better informed.

I did a YT video that talked about the Gulf of Aden. It has some interesting theories in there, but you can judge from the Links and information provided.

Gulf of Aden - The Coming Conflict

YouTube Link

There was also an ATS thread on that, I'm sure if you search ATS you'll find it.

Just my thoughts.

It's the hypocrisy of the NATO empire meets the tragedy of Third World... all summed up on the high seas, with ships and guns.

Just like in the old days... but who said that the World has changed anyways?

The fish is poisoned By Dumping Waste in the sea, Doh!!!

Live Piracy Map

[edit on 13-4-2009 by werk71]

reply to post by Echtelion

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explain to me what exactly is the tragedy of the third world? The only tragedy I see is their unwillingness to take responsiblity for their own actions. Every nation that has tried to help them has been met with resistance. It's a catch .22. If we try to help them, they see that as we are trying to implement our way of life, but if we do nothing, we are giving them the cold shoulder. Which is it?

Interesting articles OP! makes you think that the Somali pirates are reacting to the continued robbery of their country.TPTB does not like it when the "peasants" revolt it makes looting the entire planet harder.

All I can do is present the article and the accusation.

Every paper has erred at one point or another, and by that standard you should doubt them all. If you don't trust any news source on the issue, or want to see the toxic barrels for yourself I can't help you.

Did you read this part from the Times article (previously referenced) where there was proof shown in the form of contracts?



If true then I suppose that would at least prove the dumping WAS allowed contractually.
You can say that this doesn't prove that it occurred, and you'd be right, however since there were claims made around that time that dumping was taking place it would seem to tie the two together rather solidly.

I of course can't probe that this is happening anymore than you can prove it is not.
I can only go by what I read on the issue.

- Lee

See this article seems to be the spin piece to me. Rephrase RANSOM as a 'tax' and put quotations around it. Ya that is absurd how many fall for it. These are not Peter Pans robbing from rich and giving to poor. They don't take the 'tax' and give it to their country and feed the starving. The Pirates live higher than the rest of the citizens.

This is a typical liberal hit piece connecting at best semi related facts. No matter how you slice it, they have no right to seize American ships, threaten to kills Americans, and demand ransom. They know the likely consequences and did what they did anyways. Ransom is ransom, not tax... no wordsmithing here.

The Pirates are lucky Bush isn't President still. With their connection to Al Qaeda, their training camps would have been bombed and the SEALS would have been in sooner.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by johnny2127]

Italian Mafia and Somali Pirates are all a part of the same clique. Global organized crime is a family affair. I think that Mussolini used Somalia, or thereabouts, as a staging ground for his invasion of Ethiopia in 1935.

So, it would seem to me that when the criminals were in power behind the scenes in Western governments, criminal gangs won no-bid contracts and they dumped toxic waste in the Indian Ocean and collected a fee, which they shared among one another. Now that their Rebel Throne has been toppled and they've fled back to the lawless regions of the world, their homes, they want to "expose" the corruption of Western nations...the very same corruption they were the source.

That takes some nerve, no wonder these guys' story ended with their brains being blown out all over the very same stretch of ocean they polluted for the last 18 years...that's called Karma!

Good story, but I have a different interpretation as to what it means. A real conspiracy would be showing the connection of the earthquake that destroyed L'aquila and the humiliating gunfire that destroyed the Somali pirates.



[edit on 13-4-2009 by huckfinn]

[edit on 13-4-2009 by huckfinn]