Mystery UCAV/UAV over Afghanistan, page 2
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reply posted on 14-4-2009 @ 05:55 AM by FredT
reply to post by Shadowhawk



I thought you had said Yucca Lake for the Prowler and thats why I mentined the unit patch..... I basing that of the 5+1 pattern that comes from Trevors book. It could also indicate other areas ont he Nellis Range.

Im not sure where he got all of those. The into to his book he talks about meeting several people because that patches themselves I guess are not classified which seems odd to me to say the least. Some may have been released for disinformation reasons as well.

If you havent looked at it its quite interesting and while I realize that some may simply be disinformation some projects like Minotaur and Vindicator are worthy of further study but there is not alot out there on them.



reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 01:25 PM by Wakeupcall
Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to
post by Mike_A



Predator C is a jet powered Predator. From what I've heard, it's almost identical to the other models, using a small jet engine. I don't think they'd use the "C" designation if it was a radical redesign.

The only changes I've heard of to the Predator C are the jet engine, and new wing for the higher speeds.

[edit on 4/10/2009 by Zaphod58]


It has a cranked trailing edge wing, a swept leading edge. The LG are in the wing instead of the fuse. It is much more than just a jet engine on a B. The intake is very far forward on top of the fuse over the wing. Watch the next issue of AvWeek & Space Tech

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Wakeupcall]


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 02:00 PM by ajsr71
Originally posted by Wakeupcall
Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to
post by Mike_A



Predator C is a jet powered Predator. From what I've heard, it's almost identical to the other models, using a small jet engine. I don't think they'd use the "C" designation if it was a radical redesign.

The only changes I've heard of to the Predator C are the jet engine, and new wing for the higher speeds.

[edit on 4/10/2009 by Zaphod58]


It has a cranked trailing edge wing, a swept leading edge. The LG are in the wing instead of the fuse. It is much more than just a jet engine on a B. The intake is very far forward on top of the fuse over the wing. Watch the next issue of AvWeek & Space Tech

[edit on 17-4-2009 by Wakeupcall]




Here is a link to the Aviation Week Web site with a picture of the Jet powered Predator C

Nice Looking UAV.



PREDATOR C PICTURE


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 06:35 PM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Mike_A



Actually, no it doesn't fit the Predator C at all. The wing is too cranked back, the engine exhaust is supposed to look like the Polecat exhaust, and it has two humps, that almost look like intakes on either side of the "fuselage" that the Predator C doesn't have.


reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 08:25 PM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Mike_A



I don't think we're talking about a Predator C. I could see if the humps were seen at the back of the aircraft, mistaking them for the tail, but I really don't see how you could mistake those long thin tails for two fat humps like that. I would think that someone that knows UAVs would recognize it as still being a Predator. Just looking at the picture, while there are changes, it still has the basic Predator look. The pictures were went to an analyst who couldn't identify it. If I saw the Predator C without any supporting details, I'd still say it was a Predator, or Predator spin off without any problems.

They got a good enough look at it that they could identify possible weapons bays near the landing gear, so they got a pretty good look at it.

The image shown in the link below has been drawn directly from the photograph but none of the experts consulted by UV had any concrete idea of what the system might be.

The image shown to UV was taken from a long distance, as the aircraft taxied in on a hazy day, but the image was clear enough to show that this UAV’s design is like no other UAV in current operational service.

www.shephard.co.uk...

[edit on 4/17/2009 by Zaphod58]


reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 11:17 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Mike_A



It still shares a lot of commonality with Predator B, even with the changes. Whoever took the picture was close enough to identify possible bomb bay doors near the undercarriage, and distinctly said it was a flying wing.


reply posted on 21-4-2009 @ 12:16 AM by FredT
www.aviationweek.com.../07073news.xml

2003 AWST article about unknown UAV's including a Dark Star Follow on.

weird the link does not work


STEALTH UAV GOES TO WAR


Not a lot has been written about new products from Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works during the last couple of years, but aerospace officials say the advanced projects company has produced prototypes of a classified, unmanned aerial vehicle--built strictly as an intelligence-gathering aircraft--that "has been used" operationally over Iraq.


The aircraft is described by a U.S. Air Force official as a derivative of the "DarkStar" (Tier 3-minus) program that was canceled after the demonstration aircraft was test flown and then declared operationally unsuitable. The new Lockheed Martin UAV is "highly reliable," in part because of a much improved flight control system, the Air Force official said. "It's the same concept as DarkStar, it's stealthy, and it uses the same apertures and data links," he said. "The numbers are limited. There are a couple of airframes, a ground station and spare parts."


The classified UAV's operation caused consternation among USAF U-2 pilots who noticed high-flying aircraft operating within several miles of their routes over Iraq, a distance they considered too close for comfort. The mysterious aircrafts' flights were not coordinated with those of the other manned and unmanned surveillance aircraft, they said.


"It has the hull form of the DarkStar, only it's bigger," agreed a U.S. Navy official. "It's still far from a production aircraft, but the Air Force wanted to go ahead and get it out there. They have to determine if the intelligence they can gather from it is worth paying several times more than the cost of the [non-stealthy] Global Hawk."


Lockheed Martin conceded the non-stealthy UAV role to Northrop Grumman's Global Hawk, but company officials then committed themselves to a full court press to ensure they had a significant share of the Pentagon's stealthy UAV market.


FOR THE LAST DECADE, the Air Force and studies by Rand and other research organizations have expressed unwavering support of the need for a penetrating low-observable UAV, so the existence of the program comes as no surprise to other aerospace officials. The only surprise is that an early version of the aircraft has seen operational use so quickly.


A second Air Force official who once had oversight of UAV and unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) programs also described the Lockheed Martin UAV as a "DarkStar-like thing." The problems that loomed large in the project were flight controls, command and control and stealthy apertures--in particular low probability of intercept (LPI) communications antennas, he said. The aircraft is given new tasks, and intelligence is downloaded through satellite links. Therefore, the antennas have to be on top of the aircraft to shield them from electronic surveillance. Infrared signature reduction was also in the design.

www.aviationweek.com.../07073news.xml


[edit on 4/21/09 by FredT]


reply posted on 21-4-2009 @ 12:26 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by FredT



Now what have we told you about being careful with your links? You went and dropped this one and broke it.



reply posted on 21-4-2009 @ 07:34 AM by Zaphod58
Here are a couple of interesting articles over at Ares:

Researcher and long-time collaborator Terry Mahon has passed on some observations regarding that other stealthy UAV, the one spotted at Kandahar recently. In fact, Mahon notes, this could be something that Aviation Week's been covering for some years.

As Dave Fulghum and Amy Butler reported in September 2005:

Lockheed Martin’s Skunk Works, perceived as lagging rivals Boeing and Northrop Grumman in the unmanned aerial vehicle field, is secretly developing a stealthy, long-endurance unmanned aircraft for penetrating deep inside hostile airspace to collect intelligence. By early next year at the latest, the company is expected to announce that - with the U.S. Air Force’s backing - it is building one or more demonstrators of what the Pentagon has newly designated an unmanned aircraft system (UAS).

This might have been Polecat, but that aircraft was strictly a private venture, and more of an aerodynamics technology demonstrator than an operational system. Then, in February 2006, the Washington Outlook column stated that:

The Pentagon is taking another look at an unmanned reconnaissance aircraft design that it rejected more than 10 years ago in favor of Northrop Grumman's popular Global Hawk. Planners are back looking at concepts similar to the two-engine, 125-ft. wingspan, low-signature B-2-like design offered for the competition. It was to fly at 70,000-80,000 ft. and pull from an inventory of two dozen classified engines in storage.

Article 1

Credit where credit is due: Steve Trimble reported the first flight of General Atomics' Predator C earlier this week, and now Shephard's Darren Lake has an artist's concept of what looks like a stealthy UAV or UCAV that was sighted at Kandahar recently - pictures apparently exist but have not been published.

Interesting question: are these events connected?

GA-ASI's jet has been in the works for years. The Predator B/Reaper was designed from the outset to accept either the Honeywell turboprop on the current aircraft or a Williams FJ44 turbofan, and the jet was almost ready to fly around the time of 9/11. However, due to strong interest from customers, this first Predator C was converted back to a prop job. Not long afterwards - I think it was Farnborough 2002 - GA-ASI boss Tom Cassidy was saying that the C had morphed into a new design.

Since then, it's been waiting for a customer and held back by the demands of the Reaper program - but its first flight and unveiling follows actions by two California congressmen to earmark funds to build two aircraft for deployment to Afghanistan, and as one of them comments, it will provide "strike" capability and "an additional covert capability."

So has someone made a quick deliberate security slip-up in Kandahar, as if to say: "Thanks, Congressman, but we've already got one of those"?

Article 2
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