Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

Originally posted by 27jd


Ah shucks, I dunno...maybe. You're certainly filling my head with that idea to the point I kinda like it, lol. I try to be a bit more modest but I am pretty great.

Anyway, here's something to debate a bit, how bout some REAL medical facts for a change to keep the horror stories in perspective....

Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation because they haven't formed the necessary nerve pathways, says Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at the University of California at San Francisco. He and his colleagues determined that until the third trimester, "the wiring at the point where you feel pain, such as the skin, doesn't reach the emotional part where you feel pain, in the brain." Although fetuses start forming pain receptors eight weeks into development, the thalamus, the part of the brain that routes information to other areas, doesn't form for 20 more weeks. Without the thalamus, Rosen says, no information can reach the cortex for processing.
discovermagazine.com...

Yet another ridiculously weak premise to justify anything. I know lets legalize MURDER as long as we anesthetize the victim so they can't feel anything first!


Pffft you get worse by the second guy

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Ill tell ya what, Ill throw a rock at your head and when you tell me it hurts, ill just say no one knows what caused your pain.

K? thx

My nerve pathways work, because I'm developed. So, if you throw a rock at my head, you better hope it kills me, because if not I would pull your spine out of your throat. K? thx

reply to post by Aermacchi


It goes on to say...

Fetuses do have reflex reactions that can make them seem pained, Rosen says. "If you see a fetus in utero react to needle stimulation, then the common conclusion is that it must feel." But just as with paraplegics, "that's a reflex that's mediated by the spinal cord; that's not a conscious reaction," he says. It is possible that a temporary structure of neurons that appears in a fetus's brain during the second trimester allows it to sense pain. But Rosen and his colleagues believe a fetus's brain doesn't function coherently enough to be conscious.
discovermagazine.com...

Which would kinda shoot down the OP's argument regarding the video. But keep screaming for the rights of non-coherent masses of tissue and ignore the real attrocities in this world, just like your supposed to.

Look jasonjnelson............ ever stop and think about the female that had to make this decision?

Think it was a walk in the park for her to do it? Just another day kinda thing?

Part of the real horrors of abortion are in the minds of those that actually do it, and are going to haunt them for a very long time, if not the rest of her life.

This isn't (for people with feelings) an easy choice to make.

And a fetus being aborted that's only alive cause they are using a female as a host until it develops the ability to sustain itself in life, is much like an adult being pulled off of life support.

If it's life is being supported by something else, is it even really alive?

I'm pro choice, but I feel for the mothers that choose to do so, and perhaps you should be a little more sensitive to it too instead of attacking those that did, or might do it in the future.

Originally posted by 27jd

Do you? Well except for the last part about the brains of course, I can tell you've experienced that first hand. j/k

If you are talking about having a child that was done to,

yeah, you'd be right

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Ill tell ya what, Ill throw a rock at your head and when you tell me it hurts, ill just say no one knows what caused your pain.

K? thx

My nerve pathways work, because I'm developed. So, if you throw a rock at my head, you better hope it kills me, because if not I would pull your spine out of your throat. K? thx

because the babies nerve pathways are not developed yet is not the babies fault but it would be the mothers fault they never do if she kills him. Your alzheimers may not fully have been developed in your late stage of human life just as nerve pathways are not in early stages. So what it is an illogical argument to justify killing a baby.

So, if you throw a rock at my head, you better hope it kills me, because if not I would pull your spine out of your throat. K? thx

I doubt you could do that but I guess it's ok for woman to do that to children not throwing rocks huh?

I see you are here just to troll me now and have no arguments to support abortion as you said you haven't watched the video so you really have demonstrated nothing but a willingness to argue and no ability to argue

reply to post by 27jd


No....

My argument regarding the video was to have those that support the act see firsthand that we are not talking about some mass of tissues.

I don't think I went any further than that, but everyone else sure did...

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I have not demanded outrage, merely a defense for what I percieve as an outrage.

Awww, gee golly whiz Jason. don't I get any rhetorical wiggle room at all?

And I do object to this:

No one watches the video.
No one offers stats to support their arguments.
But I noticed that no one will actually deal with my facts or arguments.

I watched the video. I presented my defense. I dealt with your facts and arguments.
So please don't say "No one did" unless you think I am no one.


@Aermacchi: Relax. Take a deep breath. Let logic and reason kick in and take over. I can tell that you are very passionate about this issue, but raging and raving until I have a mental picture of you foaming at the mouth does not help your position. We are not actually killing any babies in this thread, and I seriously doubt anyone will run out and get an abortion due to reading it. We are discussing the issue in abstract; no baby's life hangs in the balance. Take it easy.



Christianity is one religion among many, and if I remember my world stats correctly, it is not even the religion with the most adherents. The followers of other religions think they are worshiping the "right" God just as you do. How would you like it if another religion were the "majority" in the US, and they passed laws to make it illegal to do things that their religion perceives as wrong? You wouldn't, so don't take the attitude that you have a right to force Christianity's beliefs on other people.



What is the real issue here? Is it protecting the lives of innocent children who just haven't been born yet? Then let us outlaw children riding in cars; car accidents kill more children every year than abortion does, so we will save more innocent lives with that law. No? Then apparently saving lives isn't the primary issue.

Well, those are accidents, you say. Abortion is deliberate murder!
Oh, so it's about preventing people from killing other people deliberately? Well, then, we need to outlaw war, not abortion. How many people in this world are killed every day because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time in the name of war? The fetus is also in the wrong place at the wrong time, and is also killed. Relatively speaking, however, there aren't very many of those compared to the people who are killed in wars (and police actions). So let's protest all war and put a stop to it! That will prevent more deliberate killing than banning abortions. No? We can't do that either?

If saving lives isn't the primary goal, and preventing killing isn't the primary goal, then what is? Enforcing your moral beliefs on other people?



Making abortion against the law will not stop abortions. My mother was there and she told me what it was like. Women desperate not to have their babies found ways to destroy those babies, and often destroyed themselves in the process. The killing will not stop, it will just go underground. The babies will still die, some of the mothers will die also, and other women will be put in prison because they tried to get, or got, an illegal abortion. This would be better how?

If you are against abortion, fine. Educate. Counsel. Donate. Volunteer. Crusade for responsible sexual practices, birth control, adoption, and every other positive action you can think of to help prevent abortion. But do not criminalize it, as that will make things worse, not better.

We can't legislate morality. We will have no better luck preventing abortion by making it illegal than we are having stopping the flow of illegal drugs or preventing drunk driving (which also kills plenty of "innocents") with laws.

The philosophy of Jesus and other prophets was a positive one. Love, protect, care, teach, set an example. If Jesus was the messenger of God, then the message was not to hate, persecute, and punish those who do wrong, but to love them anyway and try to help them learn to act differently. At least, that's what I got out of reading the book.

Passing new laws only punishes those who manage to do it anyway and makes them criminals. Education, counseling, and support will more effectively prevent abortion.

JMHO

reply to post by BrnBdry


Does grain become bread?

I can't believe you compared a brain dead person to a forming human.

Seriously? and have you read the whole thread? I say very clearly at many points how I stand on the issue of women and their unique issues....

Originally posted by Aermacchi
If you are talking about having a child that was done to,

yeah, you'd be right

So, you're a woman and you've had an abortion? Or you're a man who had a woman abort a child you were part of? Or did somebody force your child to have an abortion? That was confusing, but I can relate, I had an ex who did not want to have a child make the decision, very early, to terminate the pregnancy, I was very young as well and told her I supported her decision either way. Now I have children and it does kinda hurt to think about it, because I love mine so much, but not all life is meant to survive. You have to be able to accept the nature of our planet, and of our existence, or you can make yourself sad to no end.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by BrnBdry

 

Does grain become bread?

I can't believe you compared a brain dead person to a forming human.

Seriously? and have you read the whole thread? I say very clearly at many points how I stand on the issue of women and their unique issues....

Yes, I am %100 compairing a brain dead human on life support to a fetus using a woman as a host to live.

There's limits to when you can abort. You cant abort it when its (lets say) 4 months. Theres reasons for these limits.

If it can't support itself in life without help, why not abort if the female chooses to?

Originally posted by BrnBdry

Look jasonjnelson............ ever stop and think about the female that had to make this decision?

That seems to be the point he is trying to make the entire thread

Think it was a walk in the park for her to do it? Just another day kinda thing?

That's the impression they like to have us believe by the posts areguing to get a shot at the opportunity to have an abortion

Part of the real horrors of abortion are in the minds of those that actually do it, and are going to haunt them for a very long time, if not the rest of her life.

More reason for not carrying it out

This isn't (for people with feelings) an easy choice to make.

Yet most here are making the decision to do it as if they are counting on it in the event they ever DO get pregnant.

And a fetus being aborted that's only alive cause they are using a female as a host until it develops the ability to sustain itself in life, is much like an adult being pulled off of life support.

The old baby is a parasite canard, . So if someone on life support is in a five day coma, it is ok to unplug them the fourth day just because they take five days to heal?

Wow that's compassionate!

talk about people with feelings!


[edit on 27-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by Aermacchi
I doubt you could do that

You don't know me very well, if you're ever in AZ and want to come throw a rock at my head, shoot me a U2U. You're the one who threatened me with violence first, for the record.

I see you are here just to troll me now and have no arguments to support abortion as you said you haven't watched the video so you really have demonstrated nothing but a willingness to argue and no ability to argue

No, I actually never said I didnt watch the video, i did in fact. And that is explained quite thoroughly in the article i linked, you should read it. I know, you have no use for fancy colleges when you have ancient dogma.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by BrnBdry

 

Does grain become bread?

Eventually, but until then, it's just a piece of worthless grain.

Ever masturbate jasonjnelson? Should we all attack you for killing millions and millions of potential humans?

reply to post by BrnBdry


Please.... Literally, that questioned has been asked in this thread at least twice, and answered...

Please... Go back, read the whole thread, and then start again..

I pointed out many things, including the fact that if people only had sex when they could handle the consequences, then there would only be a need for an abortion in the most extreme of examples...

Please, you mighrt embarrass yourself if you don't go back.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Aermacchi
If you are talking about having a child that was done to,

yeah, you'd be right

So, you're a woman and you've had an abortion? Or you're a man who had a woman abort a child you were part of? Or did somebody force your child to have an abortion? That was confusing, but I can relate, I had an ex who did not want to have a child make the decision, very early, to terminate the pregnancy, I was very young as well and told her I supported her decision either way. Now I have children and it does kinda hurt to think about it, because I love mine so much, but not all life is meant to survive. You have to be able to accept the nature of our planet, and of our existence, or you can make yourself sad to no end.

It was in 1981 I was dating a waitress while in college, She got pregnant and asked me to dinner to tell me about it. I think she was expecting me to be all happy she was going to abort it. She had the nerve to ask me to pay for my own kids execution. I found out what date she was going to have it done. It took six cops to get me out of that abortion clinic and it is refreshing to see something between us we have in common

and agree on

[edit on 3/27/2009 by skeptic1]

I gotta get outta work now, be back later.

Talk to ya soon...

reply to post by skeptic1



I am a victim of a gf who had one, and then told me after.

It ruined the best relationship I ever had, and that was 5 years ago...

Everything changed, and I never once attacked her. Even after the fact.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Ok.

Do you think it was a walk in the park for her?

I don't know what kind of woman she was, but an abortion is not an easy decision for most normal women. Some are heartless enough to not think twice about it, but for most, it is the hardest decision they will ever make and it is not made lightly.

Some in this thread are acting like these women are the devil and evil and need to be exterminated from the planet. That's not how it is for most.